English as she is spoke.
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John and Jane wrote a sentence each; John wrote "my cat had its dinner"; Jane wrote "my cat had had its dinner". So, Jane, where John had had "had", had had "had had". Tough, I thought, though thorough and not rough, I coughed. There are plenty more. Modern English has its roots in many other cultures, largely as a result of the English/British penchant (from the French) for exploring the world. Also the reason why it is spoken so widely; not forgetting the fact that the British are notoriously bad at learning other languages.
I must get a clever new signature for 2011.
Don't forget spanish, Richard. I believe an estimate has been given that at the current rate of assimilation and immigration it could well become a dual language in the US given a few decades or so. In much the same way that the quebecois coexist with english and french in Canada. The BBC recently ran an insert on languages and interviewed a Swedish chap who speaks eight languages but I suspect people like that are more savants than taught students. One woman was interviewed and when pressed to give a reason why she only speaks english, she remarked "we don't really need to speak another language because everybody speaks english." Well, not quite, but I can see her reasoning. One of the significant factors that contributed to the worldwide adoption of english can be traced to that brilliant man, John Harrison, whose chronometers H1 through H4 made the seas and far-off lands accessible due to the reliable discovery of longitude. Having visited the shrine of those clocks at the Royal Observatory I believe a law should be passed making it compulsory for everone to see those clocks once in a lifetime. They are beautifully exquisite masterpieces of the horologists art. Then again, the town where we live, Crawley (google for Chav towns) has a level of english which is barely a perfunctory grunt above the monosyllabic.
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Don't forget spanish, Richard. I believe an estimate has been given that at the current rate of assimilation and immigration it could well become a dual language in the US given a few decades or so. In much the same way that the quebecois coexist with english and french in Canada. The BBC recently ran an insert on languages and interviewed a Swedish chap who speaks eight languages but I suspect people like that are more savants than taught students. One woman was interviewed and when pressed to give a reason why she only speaks english, she remarked "we don't really need to speak another language because everybody speaks english." Well, not quite, but I can see her reasoning. One of the significant factors that contributed to the worldwide adoption of english can be traced to that brilliant man, John Harrison, whose chronometers H1 through H4 made the seas and far-off lands accessible due to the reliable discovery of longitude. Having visited the shrine of those clocks at the Royal Observatory I believe a law should be passed making it compulsory for everone to see those clocks once in a lifetime. They are beautifully exquisite masterpieces of the horologists art. Then again, the town where we live, Crawley (google for Chav towns) has a level of english which is barely a perfunctory grunt above the monosyllabic.
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
I think it's the pluperfect, which basically means an event that occurred before a previous event (if that even makes sense). For example, yesterday I went to the bank (an event in the past) but the bank had closed (this happened before the previous past event). Spanish has the same form (and probably other languages, but it's the only language I know apart from English). This is about the only thing from two years of studying Latin that I remember!
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You got my vote brother. :)
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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We are indeed brothers; however, we have different mothers. And different fathers, come to that.
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
Brothers of different mothers ... and also fathers ?? Well ... it could happen, if both your fathers had children with a same wife before (or after) your respective mothers. (Invert Mother/Father, and works the same) Basically, you're the "brother of the other's brother".
2 bugs found. > recompile ... 65534 bugs found. :doh:
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
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Don't forget spanish, Richard. I believe an estimate has been given that at the current rate of assimilation and immigration it could well become a dual language in the US given a few decades or so. In much the same way that the quebecois coexist with english and french in Canada. The BBC recently ran an insert on languages and interviewed a Swedish chap who speaks eight languages but I suspect people like that are more savants than taught students. One woman was interviewed and when pressed to give a reason why she only speaks english, she remarked "we don't really need to speak another language because everybody speaks english." Well, not quite, but I can see her reasoning. One of the significant factors that contributed to the worldwide adoption of english can be traced to that brilliant man, John Harrison, whose chronometers H1 through H4 made the seas and far-off lands accessible due to the reliable discovery of longitude. Having visited the shrine of those clocks at the Royal Observatory I believe a law should be passed making it compulsory for everone to see those clocks once in a lifetime. They are beautifully exquisite masterpieces of the horologists art. Then again, the town where we live, Crawley (google for Chav towns) has a level of english which is barely a perfunctory grunt above the monosyllabic.
PHS241 wrote:
Don't forget spanish, Richard. I believe an estimate has been given that at the current rate of assimilation and immigration it could well become a dual language in the US given a few decades or so
Far from Spanish though, but South Africa has no fewer than eleven official languages. :omg:
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I've always thought that the second 'had' refers to some action; in your example, "she had received an injection...". Other words (in other contexts) could be 'gotten', 'experienced', 'undergone', etc.
Best wishes, Hans
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Hans - This thread is "English as she is spoke" NOT "American as she is spoke". No such word as "gotten" in English. Controversial or what :-D ? Keith
Actually, 'gotten' was common English. It emigrated from the Old World to the New World in the days of the early American settlers but dropped out of usage in the Old World. So, perversely, you could say that some parts of American English (or English as the Americans call it) are purer than some parts of British English (or English as everyone else calls it).
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Actually, 'gotten' was common English. It emigrated from the Old World to the New World in the days of the early American settlers but dropped out of usage in the Old World. So, perversely, you could say that some parts of American English (or English as the Americans call it) are purer than some parts of British English (or English as everyone else calls it).
You are of course right in that gotten has dropped out of English usage by the English. However, I do take exception with your definition of the word "pure". Given that English is derived from German, Dutch, French, Latin, Celtic, Indian, Chinese and the languages of just about every other people with whom we have had contact (Including the Americans), English (In all its forms) is about as "pure" as very gritty mud! You never now, we might get around to using gotten again. Keith
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
Stop whinning, try to learn Polish ;)
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I know it's in the nature of all languages to contain difficult phrasing that's hard to explain but I recently came across the use of "had had". I used it during the day sometime and it puzzled me why and when I mentioned it to my wife she also said she'd used it when writing to a medical case file. Her use described a patient "she had had an injection..." Why "she had had an..." and not "she had an injection..." Both forms, I think are correct, but how would you try to explain "had had" to someone learning english? It's almost like words ending in -ough. Through is "-oo", bough is "-ow", thorough is "-urrer", rough is "-uff", cough is "-off", dough is "-o". To quote: "Beware of beard, a terrible word, it looks like heard, but sounds like weird." I'm still surprised that english is almost the universally dominant language in the world but gaw'd 'elp those poor souls that try to learn it. :)
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I think it's the pluperfect, which basically means an event that occurred before a previous event (if that even makes sense). For example, yesterday I went to the bank (an event in the past) but the bank had closed (this happened before the previous past event). Spanish has the same form (and probably other languages, but it's the only language I know apart from English). This is about the only thing from two years of studying Latin that I remember!
Never heard of 'pluperfect', only past perfect. German has this case as well, called 'Plusquamperfekt', which I believe is the same as Latin. The way I learned it at school is that apart from the example you gave you also use past perfect to describe a span of time that started at some point in the past until a later point, also in the past. Example: "He had worn a hat until the wind blew it off." While the term 'until' in this example clarifies the chronological order semantically, past perfect is required to correctly express this grammatically.
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PHS241 wrote:
the town where we live, Crawley
Ugh! Where my ex-wife lives.
I must get a clever new signature for 2011.
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They should know how to speak English in Crawley as it's in England. But as it's next to Gatwick I'm sure there are some immigrants there who don't. I too only live a few miles from Crawley but may have to move if they read this message.
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You are of course right in that gotten has dropped out of English usage by the English. However, I do take exception with your definition of the word "pure". Given that English is derived from German, Dutch, French, Latin, Celtic, Indian, Chinese and the languages of just about every other people with whom we have had contact (Including the Americans), English (In all its forms) is about as "pure" as very gritty mud! You never now, we might get around to using gotten again. Keith
kstraw wrote:
we might get around to using gotten again.
You will. You just haven't gotten around to it yet.
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kstraw wrote:
we might get around to using gotten again.
You will. You just haven't gotten around to it yet.
