What If
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I know you are trying to augment your opinion about the HTML + JavaScript (this Harley Davidson and Malboro Man couple of coding), but you can't use exodus when you are referring only to yourself. Exodus means a mass departure. If you take me with you (as I share your feelings) then maybe we can call it exodus. :D
giuchici
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wizardzz wrote:
If MS moved away from .NET towards Java, I would exodus from MS.
The question was about JavsScript, not Java. They already tried Java once before, and we all know how that turned out!
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What would be the problem with that, if what we are talking about is Windows 8 desktop development? Suppose Microsoft made available a JavaScript library that works on other browsers, but is obviously going to be slower for certain features (e.g., 3D stuff). At least, I don't see how that's any worse than what we have today. You get a good development experience and performance on Windows, and you get interoperability with other platforms (though with reduced performance). That even adds one bonus... you only have to implement it once and you only have to know one language (JavaScript).
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
I am almost offended by calling JavaScript a language. It has little structure or syntax and is almost completely unmaintainable by anyone except the one who originally wrote the code. I can't imagine being completely dependant on this mess for LOB applications. I have to try to maintain JS code daily and daily I curse the devs who came before me.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Hopefully most will say NO as this kind of move would be just another attempt to further restict options for those outside of the inside industry. Its about limiting users choices and options although here it would be more developer centric. Just as with the push to the cloud the end goal to is to further restrict and limit the options/choices/flexability of users and those who provide for users such as developers.
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and what if it was called Visual js# :)
Ha ha ha ha, that's a cool name :-D I would also say NO!!!! What is the gain from switching to a more complex and error prone language like Java Script :confused:
Thank you Mohammed A. Fadil
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Congrats, you made the Insider with this one.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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True, proper wording would be "join the exodus" I'll edit my post.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
JavaScript is a fairly easy language to jump into and it's sorta loose data-type handling (in my opinion) make things even easier. So, Yes. I think it would be awesome if Visual Studio had some built in library that would give JavaScript the same kind of power as a language like C#...
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">AspDotNetDev wrote:</div>What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward?</blockquote>
AspDotNetDev wrote:
Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then?
jesus fucking christ no. If the rumours are true, I will probably kill myself and go back to using UNIX based systems like Ubuntu or some shit (after I was resurrected, of course).
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No. I would stick with Windows 7, and prepare for a transfer to Linux. And WTF would happen to the computer game industry? Noo... If they kill the ordinary shell in Windows 8, I'm just going to run Ubuntu. Or Mint. And program for said OSes only.
Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! ;) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends." "His mother should have thrown him away, and kept the stork." "There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure." "He loves nature, in spite of what it did to him."
dawmail333 wrote:
And WTF would happen to the computer game industry?
That's why I mentioned the hypothetical 3D library support for canvas. :) Some fairly impressive stuff can be done in Chrome with the canvas today: 10 examples (my favorite)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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Still, let's not make plans for that yet. I don't know where my flint is. Anyways, ... Hey! thread author: Can you stop giving those people ideas?
giuchici
They couldn't stop the atomic bomb, they can't stop the JavaScript bomb! :rolleyes:
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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I am almost offended by calling JavaScript a language. It has little structure or syntax and is almost completely unmaintainable by anyone except the one who originally wrote the code. I can't imagine being completely dependant on this mess for LOB applications. I have to try to maintain JS code daily and daily I curse the devs who came before me.
JavaScript has plenty of structure and syntax. That doesn't mean developers make use of it.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
No. Because what you described isn't desktop app dev using js +html. What you are describing is desktop app dev using .Net wrapped in js with html software goo thrown on top. Most of the serious code will be written in .Net and js+html will be used as bandaids and bailing wire to hold the whole thing together. Does anyone remember programming in the original ASP (without the. Net part). So far all i've heard from the js+html crowd boils doesn to "it's new, it's different; we think it's so cool..." I haven't heard one reasonable justification for adding another layer of software goo between me and my user. I mean really, why would I want to add a nightmare of a language like js on top of everything else I've just worked on. More layers does not equal "cool tech" in my mind.
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dawmail333 wrote:
And WTF would happen to the computer game industry?
That's why I mentioned the hypothetical 3D library support for canvas. :) Some fairly impressive stuff can be done in Chrome with the canvas today: 10 examples (my favorite)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
But that would require the games industry to drop all prior knowledge and innovations. You know, the improvements and patterns and knowledge they've accumulated for longer than I've been alive. Even with all those APIs added that you're talking about (no guarantees on performance!), it still wouldn't functionally stand against the languages used now. No way in hell that would end up happening. Microsoft is smarter than that. Thank God.
Don't forget to rate my post if it helped! ;) "He has no enemies, but is intensely disliked by his friends." "His mother should have thrown him away, and kept the stork." "There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure." "He loves nature, in spite of what it did to him."
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Naerling wrote:
I'd site in a corner and cry... Then learn HTML and JavaScript.
That is, of course, the only answer a professional should give. Those who code only for love and not for money have a freedom that many others lack.
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
:thumbsup::thumbsup:
If Barney Frank eats a fruitcake, is it cannibalism?
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No. Because what you described isn't desktop app dev using js +html. What you are describing is desktop app dev using .Net wrapped in js with html software goo thrown on top. Most of the serious code will be written in .Net and js+html will be used as bandaids and bailing wire to hold the whole thing together. Does anyone remember programming in the original ASP (without the. Net part). So far all i've heard from the js+html crowd boils doesn to "it's new, it's different; we think it's so cool..." I haven't heard one reasonable justification for adding another layer of software goo between me and my user. I mean really, why would I want to add a nightmare of a language like js on top of everything else I've just worked on. More layers does not equal "cool tech" in my mind.
Quantium wrote:
What you are describing is desktop app dev using .Net wrapped in js
You mean like C# and VB.NET? :)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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Quantium wrote:
What you are describing is desktop app dev using .Net wrapped in js
You mean like C# and VB.NET? :)
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
Hmm, interesting... Is there a rational for HTML + JS? Can it be shared? C# and VB.Net are full blown programming languages with frameworks to support them. JavaSCRIPT is a scripting language; which by definition is used to script and hold together other things. While useful, it's the other stuff that I'm interested in developing. Can you tell us why it's HTML + JS? What's the origin of this? To most of us who have written desktop apps HTML + JS means web pages. The confusion, I think, comes from the fact that desktop app developers do not equate web pages with a desktop app. There's a disconnect. Can anyone bridge the gap. Or is it just all smiles out there? :)
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Hmm, interesting... Is there a rational for HTML + JS? Can it be shared? C# and VB.Net are full blown programming languages with frameworks to support them. JavaSCRIPT is a scripting language; which by definition is used to script and hold together other things. While useful, it's the other stuff that I'm interested in developing. Can you tell us why it's HTML + JS? What's the origin of this? To most of us who have written desktop apps HTML + JS means web pages. The confusion, I think, comes from the fact that desktop app developers do not equate web pages with a desktop app. There's a disconnect. Can anyone bridge the gap. Or is it just all smiles out there? :)
Quantium wrote:
Is there a rational for HTML + JS?
Not sure what you mean. My question was merely based on a hypothetical.
Quantium wrote:
C# and VB.Net are full blown programming languages with frameworks to support them.
Indeed, though this makes me wonder what you mean by "full blown" programming language, and what you would consider a not full blown programming language.
Quantium wrote:
JavaSCRIPT is a scripting language; which by definition is used to script and hold together other things.
That is just a name. Have you ever heard of VBScript?
Quantium wrote:
While useful, it's the other stuff that I'm interested in developing.
You seem to have lost focus of my original hypothetical again. If JavaScript were implemented in such a fashion as to make it just as powerful as other languages, then there wouldn't really be "other stuff" because JavaScript could do most everything.
Quantium wrote:
Can you tell us why it's HTML + JS?
Again, you have ended your sentence early; this is not a full question. Why what is HTML + JavaScript?
Quantium wrote:
What's the origin of this?
The origin of what? My hypothetical? If so, that originated from all this talk about Windows 8 mainly supporting apps built using HTML/JavaScript (I don't believe that for a second, but I thought I'd create a hypothetical to present an idea to others of how it could be possible and even workable).
Quantium wrote:
To most of us who have written desktop apps HTML + JS means web pages.
Well, obviously. That's why my hypothetical scenario presented ways to make JavaScript more powerful (e.g., allowing JavaScript to interact with the .Net Framework).
Quantium wrote:
There's a disconnect. Can anyone bridge the gap. Or is it just all smiles out there?
It seems you don't understand what I wrote above. You said "What you are describing is desktop app dev using .Net wrapped in js". I replied with "You mean like C# and VB.NET?" I was implying that C# and VB.NET are really just wrappers (as y
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What if HTML/JavaScript really were the only way to go from Windows 8 and onward? What if you were given access to the entire .Net Framework from JavaScript? What if the IDE verified JavaScript variable types at compile time? What if Visual Studio supported a pseudo form of generics (e.g.,
var myList = new List.of(String)(constructorParameter);)? What if the framework included full support for 3D in the canvas? What if Visual Studio included a JavaScript library capable of just as complex graphics and just as sophisticated events/binding as is possible with WPF? What if every obstacle that currently exists in JavaScript development that is possible to overcome was done so by the new Visual Studio? Would you be happy to develop desktop applications using HTML/JavaScript then? EDIT: Also, it would be perfect if Microsoft's new fancy JavaScript library was accessed via a jQuery-like variable/function, "M$". ;)Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
I think it would be pretty annoying to migrate to a different syntax but with all the same class names (like in your 'List' example). And I've never found VS to be that great with jQuery (maybe I have it set up wrong). To answer your question, yes, I'd be fine with that. But, since you brought up the subject I'd much rather do HTML and C#, like this:
using System; /// code here /// body as screen? protected void MyCSharpFunction() { myWindow.minimize(); } TEXT EDITOR?