Microsoft warned us subtly
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No one expected me to be send this post from the middle of the north sea today, after all, I should have been just getting into the house about now. Damn you FOG, damn you........... :-D [Now 1pm, and we are the second flight on the schedule, and it is as thick as scotch barley broth out there, with no sign of clearing. bring on the delay payments..hence the big grin and not the sadness......Now you know why we call it the MoneyHorn :laugh: ]
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
DaveAuld wrote:
bring on the delay payments
An extra cup of tea for you when get in then. ;)
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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No one expected me to be send this post from the middle of the north sea today, after all, I should have been just getting into the house about now. Damn you FOG, damn you........... :-D [Now 1pm, and we are the second flight on the schedule, and it is as thick as scotch barley broth out there, with no sign of clearing. bring on the delay payments..hence the big grin and not the sadness......Now you know why we call it the MoneyHorn :laugh: ]
Dave Find Me On: Web|Facebook|Twitter|LinkedIn
Folding Stats: Team CodeProject
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Will that pay for getting the quadcopter fixed?
Join the cool kids - Come fold with us[^] "Program as if the technical support department is full of serial killers and they know your home address" - Ray Cassick Jr., RIP
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OK, I'm not actually buying into all the FUD being spread about W8, HTML5/Javascript, but for those of you who are, here's an interesting tidbit. I went to PDC 2 years ago and of course got a pile of free T-Shirts. Well, I'm wearing one today, and right on the front it says ".Net - Expect the unexpected". No one expected .Net to be replaced with HTML5/Javascript, so maybe we should expect it...
They always made a big deal out of backward compatibility - Civilization I still works on my XP machine, I'm looking at VB6 applications in W7, and .NET 2.0 can be installed on Windows 2000. ..do you really believe they'd drop all that? It'll be the recommended way to build a tablet-UI, and I doubt that you'll need .NET for that. Take a look at JoliCloud[^]; it's an OS (Ubuntu based) that uses Chrome as their primary UI - and that's the primary UI that I use, since it's fast and flexible. It's calling webservices, and those are running under Mono. You wouldn't do a TSP in JavaScript, now would you?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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OK, I'm not actually buying into all the FUD being spread about W8, HTML5/Javascript, but for those of you who are, here's an interesting tidbit. I went to PDC 2 years ago and of course got a pile of free T-Shirts. Well, I'm wearing one today, and right on the front it says ".Net - Expect the unexpected". No one expected .Net to be replaced with HTML5/Javascript, so maybe we should expect it...
Think (and hope) it's all gonna be toned down somewhat. They had better not drop support for current apps written in Win32/MFC/.NET/whatever or I won't be "upgrading" for a very long time. I seem to remember reading horror stories before XP came out though saying that it isn't going to run anything that isn't signed by MS and that kinda thing, relating to TPM chips and DEP that kind of thing but it was just reporting blown out of proportion.
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They always made a big deal out of backward compatibility - Civilization I still works on my XP machine, I'm looking at VB6 applications in W7, and .NET 2.0 can be installed on Windows 2000. ..do you really believe they'd drop all that? It'll be the recommended way to build a tablet-UI, and I doubt that you'll need .NET for that. Take a look at JoliCloud[^]; it's an OS (Ubuntu based) that uses Chrome as their primary UI - and that's the primary UI that I use, since it's fast and flexible. It's calling webservices, and those are running under Mono. You wouldn't do a TSP in JavaScript, now would you?
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
Amazed Civ 1 still works, I was pleased when I found Civ 3 worked in Win 7 :) But yeah regarding older apps, at work I'm maintaining VB6 and FoxPro 5 apps in Win 7 64-bit. I'm also pretty sure some of the stuff we maintain uses components which are only available in 16-bit (not sure maintaining them is possible on a 64-bit OS though, I think others have used virtual machines when necessary for that). At home the oldest stuff I'm running natively are various apps from about the year 2000 I think, though I have older games that will only run on a virtual machine running Windows 98 or DosBox and a few that I can't get to work at all. And no I don't fancy the idea of most of the stuff I can typically have running - things like multiple RDP sessions, various guest virtual machines, excel, visual studio, a minimized directx game to restore and play when i'm sat waiting for something else, etc being in javascript/html. It seems, like, way to reverse the last 25 years of advancements in computing power.
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No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
No one expects the Spanish Inquisition.
I think, by now, that no-one expects the Spanish Inquisition not to turn up.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Amazed Civ 1 still works, I was pleased when I found Civ 3 worked in Win 7 :) But yeah regarding older apps, at work I'm maintaining VB6 and FoxPro 5 apps in Win 7 64-bit. I'm also pretty sure some of the stuff we maintain uses components which are only available in 16-bit (not sure maintaining them is possible on a 64-bit OS though, I think others have used virtual machines when necessary for that). At home the oldest stuff I'm running natively are various apps from about the year 2000 I think, though I have older games that will only run on a virtual machine running Windows 98 or DosBox and a few that I can't get to work at all. And no I don't fancy the idea of most of the stuff I can typically have running - things like multiple RDP sessions, various guest virtual machines, excel, visual studio, a minimized directx game to restore and play when i'm sat waiting for something else, etc being in javascript/html. It seems, like, way to reverse the last 25 years of advancements in computing power.
Dave Parker wrote:
Amazed Civ 1 still works
Not at all; backward compatibility is one of the factors that made Windows a succes. People even "assume" that their old software will "still" work on a new OS, they expect it. Even the error-codes[^] are backward compatible!
Dave Parker wrote:
being in javascript/html. It seems, like, way to reverse the last 25 years of advancements in computing power.
You're assuming that it's replacing the old stuff. It's not. The WinForm/WPF desktop would be to heavy for the average tablet. I doubt that there will be many people who install the tablet-UI as their primary on the desktop. ..and it's a leap forward, as I can tell from using JoliCloud. Yes, I installed a tablet-OS on my regular desktop, just to see how it would do. The UI is a lot faster, switching tasks is a lot faster, and I can still use MonoDevelop. In general it's running not only the MonoDev IDE, but also two terminal-sessions, a media-player and a browser. No, that's not written using HTML and JavaScript - the Shell of the OS is, not the OS or the apps. Seriously, it's not reversing computer-power, it's merely being more efficient in showing a start-menu. And no, I don't need an application launcher that takes two Gb and five minutes to load. And no, Windows 8 will not be a "pure" HTML solution that's going to refuse to run legacy-software; People invested in an infrastructure, nobody would buy Win8 if that would be lost in a single hit.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss:
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OK, I'm not actually buying into all the FUD being spread about W8, HTML5/Javascript, but for those of you who are, here's an interesting tidbit. I went to PDC 2 years ago and of course got a pile of free T-Shirts. Well, I'm wearing one today, and right on the front it says ".Net - Expect the unexpected". No one expected .Net to be replaced with HTML5/Javascript, so maybe we should expect it...
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After a very nice start with the .NET, Microsoft started spewing out garbage, SharePoint, MVC and the various querying "Languages" they tend to shove up our collective throats with every product they ship, just to name a few.
We had SharePoint at the last place we worked at. I never worked with it personally, but it only ever seemed to be up for about 3 days at a time before going down for whatever reason and causing the infrastructure guys another week of headaches trying to sort out. It always struck me as being way too huge and bloaty for the purposes it was meant to fulfill. The dependency on it is one of the (but not the only) things that puts me off TFS. I've not worked with ASP.NET MVC if that's what you mean enough to have a strong opinion of it. I've occasionally had to get into such a project, make a quick change and get out and it's seemed more difficult than for more traditional projects but I've just put that down to my inexperience with that and other frameworks used in the solution (the one I'm thinking of also used entity framework, autofac, razor, jquery and a whole heap of other stuff I was unfamiliar with, plus I'm more of a winforms guy). However one thing that puts me off learning a lot of the new frameworks MS come out with is they don't have a very long lifespan before being replaced by something else. My feeling is entity framework will be around for a while but I'm hesitant to learn WPF, Silverlight and others as a lot of these things seem to only have a lifespan of a year or less before everyone starts saying they're dead and you should be using something else for new projects. If people actually did that each time then they'd end up with every one of their projects utilizing whatever framework was popular that month and that strikes me as being a maintenance nightmare and would make code re-use more difficult.
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We had SharePoint at the last place we worked at. I never worked with it personally, but it only ever seemed to be up for about 3 days at a time before going down for whatever reason and causing the infrastructure guys another week of headaches trying to sort out. It always struck me as being way too huge and bloaty for the purposes it was meant to fulfill. The dependency on it is one of the (but not the only) things that puts me off TFS. I've not worked with ASP.NET MVC if that's what you mean enough to have a strong opinion of it. I've occasionally had to get into such a project, make a quick change and get out and it's seemed more difficult than for more traditional projects but I've just put that down to my inexperience with that and other frameworks used in the solution (the one I'm thinking of also used entity framework, autofac, razor, jquery and a whole heap of other stuff I was unfamiliar with, plus I'm more of a winforms guy). However one thing that puts me off learning a lot of the new frameworks MS come out with is they don't have a very long lifespan before being replaced by something else. My feeling is entity framework will be around for a while but I'm hesitant to learn WPF, Silverlight and others as a lot of these things seem to only have a lifespan of a year or less before everyone starts saying they're dead and you should be using something else for new projects. If people actually did that each time then they'd end up with every one of their projects utilizing whatever framework was popular that month and that strikes me as being a maintenance nightmare and would make code re-use more difficult.
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Think (and hope) it's all gonna be toned down somewhat. They had better not drop support for current apps written in Win32/MFC/.NET/whatever or I won't be "upgrading" for a very long time. I seem to remember reading horror stories before XP came out though saying that it isn't going to run anything that isn't signed by MS and that kinda thing, relating to TPM chips and DEP that kind of thing but it was just reporting blown out of proportion.
I very much doubt that will happen; it would be commercial suicide. I found these two blog posts interesting: http://davidburela.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/premature-cries-of-silverlight-wpf-skill-loss-windows-8-supports-all-programming-models/[^] http://blog.brillskills.com/2011/06/understanding-the-windows-8-jupiter-fiasco/[^] One keyword to keep an eye on would appear to be WinC++. If the reality lives up to the internal MS-hype us native developers might just be back in fashion again.
Anna :rose: Tech Blog | Visual Lint "Why would anyone prefer to wield a weapon that takes both hands at once, when they could use a lighter (and obviously superior) weapon that allows you to wield multiple ones at a time, and thus supports multi-paradigm carnage?"