Living and Working in the USA
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
My husband and I moved from SA to the states just less than 3 years ago. I came over on a student visa and did my Masters in Software Engineering. We were in Florida for about 2 years and we loved it. I then got a job in Kansas and we've been here for almost a year. Kansas is a nice state to live and work in. Going the student visa route meant that we had to pay for tuition and my husband is not allowed to work but it did give us a chance to stay in the country for a while and see if we would like it. It is also easier to get a job if you're here already (and have 1 year practical training). My family and I are much less stressed than we were in JHB SA and we don't regret making the move. :-D As others have said, it depends very much on which state you end up in. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you might have.
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My advice is to be sure you have a job before you go and that the company which hires you will sponsor you for a Green Card - you will not be able to change jobs during the process which takes 3 - 7 years. Your immigration lawyer will have to prove that no American could do or want your job. So a lot of the Green Card process is to do with how creative the lawyer is. Once you get your Green Card you have complete freedom to come and go and can change jobs if you wish. Basically the only thing you won't be able to do is vote. As for living in the US, it was a culture shock even though I speak English. I moved from Amsterdam to Chicago and it took me a year or two to feel at home. People are very welcoming and you'll make loads of friends. If you have any specific questions, fire away. BTW I ended up staying 17 years and am now back in Scotland, but all my clients are in the US.
It’s not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it’s because we do not dare that things are difficult. ~Seneca
AnnieMacD wrote:
As for living in the US, it was a culture shock even though I speak English. I moved from Amsterdam to Chicago and it took me a year or two to feel at home.
Chicago has that effect.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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AndyInUK wrote:
I would say you are more secure in South Africa than in states. My 2 cents.
Why would you say that? South Africa is recognized as having one of the highest crime rates in the world. Its intentional homicide rate if five times that of the United States. For that matter, Official crime figures in 2009 showed the UK as having a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa [^]
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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AndyInUK wrote:
I would say you are more secure in South Africa than in states. My 2 cents.
Why would you say that? South Africa is recognized as having one of the highest crime rates in the world. Its intentional homicide rate if five times that of the United States. For that matter, Official crime figures in 2009 showed the UK as having a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa [^]
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
Those figures are bullsh*t as different countries have a very different idea of what constitutes a 'violent' crime. The Daily Mail is a notorious right-wing scaremongering rag that tries to convince people that the sky is falling at every opportunity. The UK is far from perfect but please don't let that shitty excuse for a newspaper cloud your view. But I do agree with you about AndyInUK's comment - it was bizarre. I wouldn't live in South Africa if you paid me but would jump at the chance to live in the USA. Judging by the amount of South Africans who have emigrated to the UK in the last 20 years I don't think I'm alone in this view.
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I lived and worked for a year and a half in Clearwater, Florida, and both my wife and I had a fantastic time. We comfortably lived on one Salary, had the two cars in the driveway (a Mustang - Just because, brought that one home with us, and a Miata because you've got to have a convertible in Florida). Folklore may perpetuate myths of Ireland being a friendly welcoming country, and the US being some sort of over commercialised, gun totin', isolationist asylum. I have to say that didn't tally at all with reality. We made more friends and better friends during our short stay in the US that we have in Ireland. We got to know our neighbours better, we went to the movies with them, to restaurants, to coffee shops etc. Americans we met both in a personal capacity and in the course of day to day activities were almost universally friendly. Some of that may be down to the fact that at least some of them were relying on us for tips, but I do think you can only pretend to be happy and helpful for so long before your true self shines through and for the most part they were great people. America is (at least from the perspective of an Irish person) a very efficient place. We had two minor car accidents in which we were rear ended (same road, within a month of each other). The Police were insanely helpful and efficient. The work situation is a little different in the US. I was a contractor so my European pay and conditions were what I worked under. It seemed to me that Americans work quite long hours. I don't know if it's a pride thing, or a peer pressure thing, or just a peculiarity of the American Psyche, but work is VERY important, it's a reflection of your personality. Depending on the job you might find the hours and the conditions less favourable than work in your own country. All things considered I loved every minute of my time in the US. If the chance came up to go back I'd have a very hard time saying no. That's it. That was Florida (which many American's hate). Going to different states in the US is a bit like going to different countries. Downsides: Society is very divided in the US, the rich poor divide is nothing new, all countries have that, but the phoney Liberal Conservative divide gets tiresome. Particularly when you realise that it's in large part a divide created to bolster particular voting blocks and sell books and tv programming. It seems that most of the people most entrenched in their hatred of the other half of the country, don't even realise that they are be
Richard A. Dalton wrote:
Going to different states in the US is a bit like going to different countries.
This is one very nice part about the US. If you don't like one place, pack and move to another that is very different. You don't need to worry about visas or immigration, just move. At most, you'll have to get a new drivers license, but that's not a big deal.
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If you want to know what the hiring environment is like, check out hiring boards. monster, craigslist, etc. If you know what area you would like to live in, check out recruiters in that area. If you want to know what it's like to live here, it's a large country and I think it differs greatly depending on where you live.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Honestly, the whole "It's different depending on where you live" thing is a little hard to digest, I've live here 4 years...been to 15+ states and they all seem carbon copies of each other. I mean I can be sure I'll spot a walmart/J.C. Penny/Macy's/Dunkin/Pep boys everywhere. Everything just seems to be a corporate chain :-D . Don't get me wrong, it nice they're consistent BUT it does get a little boring after some time ;P
I are n00b. This message brought to you by "The Devil's Advocate, LLC". Our slogan - "If you suck, we'll damn well tell you about it." -- JSOP
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Honestly, the whole "It's different depending on where you live" thing is a little hard to digest, I've live here 4 years...been to 15+ states and they all seem carbon copies of each other. I mean I can be sure I'll spot a walmart/J.C. Penny/Macy's/Dunkin/Pep boys everywhere. Everything just seems to be a corporate chain :-D . Don't get me wrong, it nice they're consistent BUT it does get a little boring after some time ;P
I are n00b. This message brought to you by "The Devil's Advocate, LLC". Our slogan - "If you suck, we'll damn well tell you about it." -- JSOP
Seems like you never lived any where long enough to notice the differences. "Been to x number of places" only qualifies you to make ignorant statements about x number of places. Are you a social person? I would expect talking to the people in these 15 different states would definitely bring out the difference. The entire Western world is populated with chain stores (urban areas usually lesser so), but does the name of the store in which you buy your pants dictate what it's like to live there? It seems you are very focused on the commercialism, which is odd considering you seem to despise it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Seems like you never lived any where long enough to notice the differences. "Been to x number of places" only qualifies you to make ignorant statements about x number of places. Are you a social person? I would expect talking to the people in these 15 different states would definitely bring out the difference. The entire Western world is populated with chain stores (urban areas usually lesser so), but does the name of the store in which you buy your pants dictate what it's like to live there? It seems you are very focused on the commercialism, which is odd considering you seem to despise it.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Despise is a strong word. I do like it here and yes I do socialize but again it's no different at different places, not a bad thing again or maybe I just need to get out more :~ I seem to have offended you. Not my intent at all :)
I are n00b. This message brought to you by "The Devil's Advocate, LLC". Our slogan - "If you suck, we'll damn well tell you about it." -- JSOP
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Despise is a strong word. I do like it here and yes I do socialize but again it's no different at different places, not a bad thing again or maybe I just need to get out more :~ I seem to have offended you. Not my intent at all :)
I are n00b. This message brought to you by "The Devil's Advocate, LLC". Our slogan - "If you suck, we'll damn well tell you about it." -- JSOP
Sorry, the term despise was pretty strong considering you only said that chain stores bored you. I'm by no means offended, just pointing out that it seems you haven't really lived here if your focus is on the commercialized aspect of a society. I would recommend moving to a city from the burbs if that is the case.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Thank you. It seems rare to hear someone from outside the U.S. make a considered complimentary statement about the country. Most of the time it's either a vehement diatribe or jingoistic cheerleading.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
Most of the time it's either a vehement diatribe or jingoistic cheerleading.
Sorry I've let this slip of late, a few more nights of study and I'll be back, bigger and better than ever spewing even more facts about the horror that is the USA.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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I lived and worked for a year and a half in Clearwater, Florida, and both my wife and I had a fantastic time. We comfortably lived on one Salary, had the two cars in the driveway (a Mustang - Just because, brought that one home with us, and a Miata because you've got to have a convertible in Florida). Folklore may perpetuate myths of Ireland being a friendly welcoming country, and the US being some sort of over commercialised, gun totin', isolationist asylum. I have to say that didn't tally at all with reality. We made more friends and better friends during our short stay in the US that we have in Ireland. We got to know our neighbours better, we went to the movies with them, to restaurants, to coffee shops etc. Americans we met both in a personal capacity and in the course of day to day activities were almost universally friendly. Some of that may be down to the fact that at least some of them were relying on us for tips, but I do think you can only pretend to be happy and helpful for so long before your true self shines through and for the most part they were great people. America is (at least from the perspective of an Irish person) a very efficient place. We had two minor car accidents in which we were rear ended (same road, within a month of each other). The Police were insanely helpful and efficient. The work situation is a little different in the US. I was a contractor so my European pay and conditions were what I worked under. It seemed to me that Americans work quite long hours. I don't know if it's a pride thing, or a peer pressure thing, or just a peculiarity of the American Psyche, but work is VERY important, it's a reflection of your personality. Depending on the job you might find the hours and the conditions less favourable than work in your own country. All things considered I loved every minute of my time in the US. If the chance came up to go back I'd have a very hard time saying no. That's it. That was Florida (which many American's hate). Going to different states in the US is a bit like going to different countries. Downsides: Society is very divided in the US, the rich poor divide is nothing new, all countries have that, but the phoney Liberal Conservative divide gets tiresome. Particularly when you realise that it's in large part a divide created to bolster particular voting blocks and sell books and tv programming. It seems that most of the people most entrenched in their hatred of the other half of the country, don't even realise that they are be
Richard A. Dalton wrote:
It seemed to me that Americans work quite long hours. I don't know if it's a pride thing, or a peer pressure thing, or just a peculiarity of the American Psyche, but work is VERY important, it's a reflection of your personality.
Of these I think psyche is closest, although it kind of fits all of the above to some extent. Add in guilt and for some a need to appear to be a certain image as well. And Obviously some folks are immune. Work is how a lot of us define our lives. Kind of like "what we do is what we are" but what we do away from work often doesn't count the same. I've had to quit jobs where I wasn't allowed to work. Just sit at the desk and surf the web and answer the occasional phone call or whatever. And slowly go mad.
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug...
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AndyInUK wrote:
I would say you are more secure in South Africa than in states. My 2 cents.
Why would you say that? South Africa is recognized as having one of the highest crime rates in the world. Its intentional homicide rate if five times that of the United States. For that matter, Official crime figures in 2009 showed the UK as having a worse rate for all types of violence than the U.S. and even South Africa [^]
The 3-legged stool of understanding is held up by history, languages, and mathematics. Equipped with these three you can learn anything you want to learn. But if you lack any one of them you are just another ignorant peasant with dung on your boots. R. A. H.
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
Yes, there will be lots of chain stores that are consistent from coast to coast this is no different than the ubiquity of Tesco stores in the UK. Regional differences can be very stark. New England is VERY different from the midwest which is in turn different from the Pacific Northwest. The cultural differences tend to be more regional than state-centric. You can easily hit 15 states in the midwest and be struck by their similarity (not picking on the midwest, just sayin') then go to Maine and it's like a different country. Cuisine in New England is primarily driven by locally owned one-off restaurants, in Florida it's hard NOT to end up at a Chili's or Applebees. Work. There's an interesting topic. It runs the gamut. Some places will treat you like family (largely smaller companies) most like a fungible commodity. Employment is mostly at will. In other words, they can fire you without reason and you have no recourse. Many companies expect 60 hours from you for the salary that is of course based on 40 hours of pay. Likewise most companies expect you to be contactable when you are vacation and some actually frown upon those who have the temerity to take vacation.
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I lived and worked for a year and a half in Clearwater, Florida, and both my wife and I had a fantastic time. We comfortably lived on one Salary, had the two cars in the driveway (a Mustang - Just because, brought that one home with us, and a Miata because you've got to have a convertible in Florida). Folklore may perpetuate myths of Ireland being a friendly welcoming country, and the US being some sort of over commercialised, gun totin', isolationist asylum. I have to say that didn't tally at all with reality. We made more friends and better friends during our short stay in the US that we have in Ireland. We got to know our neighbours better, we went to the movies with them, to restaurants, to coffee shops etc. Americans we met both in a personal capacity and in the course of day to day activities were almost universally friendly. Some of that may be down to the fact that at least some of them were relying on us for tips, but I do think you can only pretend to be happy and helpful for so long before your true self shines through and for the most part they were great people. America is (at least from the perspective of an Irish person) a very efficient place. We had two minor car accidents in which we were rear ended (same road, within a month of each other). The Police were insanely helpful and efficient. The work situation is a little different in the US. I was a contractor so my European pay and conditions were what I worked under. It seemed to me that Americans work quite long hours. I don't know if it's a pride thing, or a peer pressure thing, or just a peculiarity of the American Psyche, but work is VERY important, it's a reflection of your personality. Depending on the job you might find the hours and the conditions less favourable than work in your own country. All things considered I loved every minute of my time in the US. If the chance came up to go back I'd have a very hard time saying no. That's it. That was Florida (which many American's hate). Going to different states in the US is a bit like going to different countries. Downsides: Society is very divided in the US, the rich poor divide is nothing new, all countries have that, but the phoney Liberal Conservative divide gets tiresome. Particularly when you realise that it's in large part a divide created to bolster particular voting blocks and sell books and tv programming. It seems that most of the people most entrenched in their hatred of the other half of the country, don't even realise that they are be
"Society is very divided in the US, the rich poor divide is nothing new, all countries have that, but the phoney Liberal Conservative divide gets tiresome. Particularly when you realise that it's in large part a divide created to bolster particular voting blocks and sell books and tv programming." Perfectly stated. Perfectly. I guess it takes an outsider's perspective to better see this, although I've been touting this exact thought for years.
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
There are different problems in different parts of the country. Along the west coast they have earthquakes. Along the east coast and southeast they have hurricanes. Down the middle (Michigan to Kansas) they have tornadoes. In the south it's very hot; you can't survive in Florida without air conditioning. Many jobs (e.g. software development) are being outsourced to low-wage countries, so there's competition for jobs. Despite all that, I'd rather live in the US than anywhere else.
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
"Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there?" Get up, go to work, work, go home, sleep, repeat. Same as it is pretty much everywhere in the world, I suspect. Perhaps the best way to aproach this is to decide what it is about where you curently live that you and your wife really like, and try to see if anybody can help you figure out what part of the US might provide that for you? What climate do you like? What kind of culture do you like? What kinds of free-time activities do you like to do? etc.
patbob
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Yes, there will be lots of chain stores that are consistent from coast to coast this is no different than the ubiquity of Tesco stores in the UK. Regional differences can be very stark. New England is VERY different from the midwest which is in turn different from the Pacific Northwest. The cultural differences tend to be more regional than state-centric. You can easily hit 15 states in the midwest and be struck by their similarity (not picking on the midwest, just sayin') then go to Maine and it's like a different country. Cuisine in New England is primarily driven by locally owned one-off restaurants, in Florida it's hard NOT to end up at a Chili's or Applebees. Work. There's an interesting topic. It runs the gamut. Some places will treat you like family (largely smaller companies) most like a fungible commodity. Employment is mostly at will. In other words, they can fire you without reason and you have no recourse. Many companies expect 60 hours from you for the salary that is of course based on 40 hours of pay. Likewise most companies expect you to be contactable when you are vacation and some actually frown upon those who have the temerity to take vacation.
cruest wrote:
Many companies expect 60 hours from you for the salary that is of course based on 40 hours of pay. Likewise most companies expect you to be contactable when you are vacation and some actually frown upon those who have the temerity to take vacation.
Hmmmm.... that has never been my experience. Having worked here all of my life and with MANY different large corporations, I have never found that to be the case. I do not believe you can say that is the case across the board.
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
I am from South Africa, have been in the USA since 2005, and find it a place where you can create your own reality if you can find a decent paying (+-$6000/mth) job and have a good attitude towards working hard. The productivity level here is very, very high. The important thing about being an employee, is that you need to be really good at what you do, and this is especially true for foreigners, but the opportunities for career advancement is limitless if you're willing to relocate to where the relevant jobs are. In general, there are many, many IT opportunities here, but those who do the recruiting look only for the best, especially since it's an employer's market right now. I don't know anything about SharePoint Developer and Administrator jobs, but it is important that you're a good all rounded developer. In other words, you need to potentially be able to work professionally with clients, in a team, and also independently. The western part of the country is sunny and dry. The California coast has similar whether to Cape Town, except that Cape Town's white sand beaches are better, but the advantage here in the US is that there is a much larger selection of beaches. I find the inland temperatures uncomfortably hot, though you'll likely have air-conditioning in your home. There is an unbelievable amount of natural disasters that occur throughout the country during certain seasons, i.e. devastating tornadoes, south-east-coast hurricanes, incredibly dangerous thunder storms, flooding, etc. Americans travel a lot, so if you want to experience many interesting and fun things in and around your state of residence, be prepared to travel "crowded" roads and long distances during holiday times. I've traveled across the US from east-coast to west-coast by car about 3 times, and by plane more than a dozen times so far. Many travel 1 - 3 hours to work in cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco - cheaper to stay in a neighboring city. The opportunities are here if you want it, but be prepared to work hard for everything you want - the competition can be tough.
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Honestly, the whole "It's different depending on where you live" thing is a little hard to digest, I've live here 4 years...been to 15+ states and they all seem carbon copies of each other. I mean I can be sure I'll spot a walmart/J.C. Penny/Macy's/Dunkin/Pep boys everywhere. Everything just seems to be a corporate chain :-D . Don't get me wrong, it nice they're consistent BUT it does get a little boring after some time ;P
I are n00b. This message brought to you by "The Devil's Advocate, LLC". Our slogan - "If you suck, we'll damn well tell you about it." -- JSOP
SinghUlarity... wrote:
Honestly, the whole "It's different depending on where you live" thing is a little hard to digest, I've live here 4 years...been to 15+ states and they all seem carbon copies of each other.
I would have supposed that you would have seen a difference between living in Alaska and Florida. I also would have thought that you would have seen a difference between New York city, Seattle, Miami and Gunnison, Colorado. Oddly enough I would expect that even if one lived inside a Walmart and never stepped foot outside that one would still still a difference in the store itself if one actually looked. Given that Walmart staffs locally and stocks stores based on what communities buy. (Myself I would suppose that Alaska is going to see far higher sales in snow shoes and coats versus Miami.)
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I'm a SharePoint Developer and Administrator. Sometimes called a SharePoint Specialist or Expert in South Africa. My wife and I started discussion immigrating to the USA. Can anyone tell me what it's like to live and work over there? What is the job market like for SharePoint, etc. Please, don't sugar coat your responses. We would love to know how it really is.
I am Canadian and worked in the USA for a couple of years. Really, where ever you go, people really aren't that different. Americans are quite opinionated. Lots of hot air, but don't take their opinions seriously. Many have big opinions, but are kind hearted. Much of their opinion is from mass media and religion. They really haven't thought out their opinions deeply. I had many people complain to me about the Mexicans coming up from the south, and taking their jobs. When I mentioned that I am a Canadian coming in and taking a job, they would say "But that's different...." Immigration is tough! I was on a visa, and could not get a green card even tho I had a Master's degree and one child born in the USA. Immigration officials will give you the run around, so make sure you study up on all the legal aspects. If one official gives you problems, find another one. These people have little accountability, so they can be nice or rude to you. They can flat out refuse you just because they feel like it. But some are nice, and professional - if you find them, then things go ok. I had to learn who to avoid, and make sure everything was legal. I love Canada for it's liberalism, but I loved the USA for its ambitiousness. The americans have balls. They are quite social. They love sports. Lots of organizations. Make sure you get employment with decent medical benefits. I had good benefits, and got top notch medical care. I had a couple of times when I needed medical care, and the treatment I got changed drastically when they saw I had good benefits (ie: paying customer)
modified on Tuesday, June 21, 2011 4:24 PM