What's worse: lazy or slow? [modified]
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Heh... In THIS country, you can fire someone just because. No reason necessary... Well, aside from government and union shops... They might have rules.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)It is employment at will, but there is a difference between firing and laying off. If you layoff someone (which requires no reason) you will pay unemployment. You do need proper reason to fire someone though, violation of policy, poor performance, etc. So no, you can't just "fire" someone for no reason, unless you plan on paying their unemployment benefits.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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No, b/c when you ask him, his assigned tasks are done. The other guy is just struggling. Of course, when I worked in that sort of environment, I moved on to the other guy's tasks, rather than surfing the web all day.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I moved on to the other guy's tasks, rather than surfing the web all day.
There are 400,000 reasons I don't believe you.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
I am responding to your edit. That is exactly the case, only the person that see's the output knows the truth. Higher ups and HR probably think the "lazy" guy is horrible.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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It is employment at will, but there is a difference between firing and laying off. If you layoff someone (which requires no reason) you will pay unemployment. You do need proper reason to fire someone though, violation of policy, poor performance, etc. So no, you can't just "fire" someone for no reason, unless you plan on paying their unemployment benefits.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Sorry, terminology... In the places I've worked, we've called it "firing" (laying off) or "firing for cause" (firing). But you're right.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels) -
Sorry, terminology... In the places I've worked, we've called it "firing" (laying off) or "firing for cause" (firing). But you're right.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)Yeah, it's like you can let anyone go, for a price! My brother was terminated, the employer claimed he broke a rule, he claimed it was a retaliatory firing (he basically whistle blew on an illegal activity). He fought for 6 months and won, got some back pay and eventually unemployment from the company.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
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Christian Graus wrote:
I moved on to the other guy's tasks, rather than surfing the web all day.
There are 400,000 reasons I don't believe you.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
ROTFL - and some guy at work came by one day to tease me about my CP post count. I said 'I work as a developer, and you're trying to tease me for being a nerd ?'. I did do some CP posting at work, but I was also doing fun projects at night, so I did a lot of CPing then, too.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Great points you made! The problem that the guy that actually can accomplish stuff with good quality really fast, may actually look bad because he's seeing "not working" too often, which might render him an unfair reputation.
I've been there! A couple of jobs ago, it seemed like every time the M.D. came to visit I would be sitting reading the paper, drinking coffee, with my feet up on the desk! It didn't matter that I'd just come in at 4am to fix a problem, having worked late the night before, the M.D.'s opinion was tainted. Fortunately I managed to bring it up in a lighthearted discussion, mentioning that the only reason he didn't get to see me working feverishly so often was because he was so rarely in the office outside of normal hours! Went down like a lead balloon!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
Assuming both are paid equally, then it should be fine to be in either camp (assuming it's really a case of comparing someone who is slow vs someone who is fast, but who both produce similar quality and volume over a period of time) As you say in your edit - it is really the effect that the surfer can have on general moral that becomes the issue. Staff have said to me before now, "it's not fair, Bill takes long smoke breaks, coffee breaks, and always comes in late and leaves on time, while I slave from early 'til late, but we both get paid the same." To respond "Yeah - but Bill gets the same amount of work done as you do!" doesn't tend to mollify - there's still a feeling of injustice. The best solution that I found was to respond "I don't think it is fair to stop Bills breaks - I don't want a stressed out employee. I'm happy for you to take equal breaks. Of course, if your productivity goes down, then you can't expect an equitable salary increase." I also had a word to Bill about making sure that he didn't appear to be being lazy - explaining that appearances are important, and that with more productivity would come better money - but the Bill's of this world tend (IMHO) to be less concerned with the financial gains than with enjoying the job.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
This should be a weekly survey question...
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I've been there! A couple of jobs ago, it seemed like every time the M.D. came to visit I would be sitting reading the paper, drinking coffee, with my feet up on the desk! It didn't matter that I'd just come in at 4am to fix a problem, having worked late the night before, the M.D.'s opinion was tainted. Fortunately I managed to bring it up in a lighthearted discussion, mentioning that the only reason he didn't get to see me working feverishly so often was because he was so rarely in the office outside of normal hours! Went down like a lead balloon!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Fortunately I managed to bring it up in a lighthearted discussion, mentioning that the only reason he didn't get to see me working feverishly so often was because he was so rarely in the office outside of normal hours!
:laugh: :laugh:
_Maxxx_ wrote:
lead balloon
A Led Zeppelin? ;-)
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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Christian Graus wrote:
I moved on to the other guy's tasks, rather than surfing the web all day.
There are 400,000 reasons I don't believe you.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
There are 400,000 reasons I don't believe you.
ROTFL
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I am responding to your edit. That is exactly the case, only the person that see's the output knows the truth. Higher ups and HR probably think the "lazy" guy is horrible.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson
Exactly
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I surf a lot to get answers to my programming problems (hello CodeProject!) - so where does that place me? :D
Kyudos wrote:
so where does that place me?
Hard worker that looks like lazy? :laugh:
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Of course you need to give people a heads up and try to encourage them, you don't just fire someone. In this country, you can't legally do that anyhow.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Of course you need to give people a heads up and try to encourage them, you don't just fire someone. In this country, you can't legally do that anyhow.
Oh yes you can, just look at waht happened to me on 24-03-2011, the fired employee has the option to fight it as an unfair dismissal. If, that is, he knows about this option and thinks he has a chance or can afford to take it to court.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Christian Graus wrote:
Of course you need to give people a heads up and try to encourage them, you don't just fire someone. In this country, you can't legally do that anyhow.
Oh yes you can, just look at waht happened to me on 24-03-2011, the fired employee has the option to fight it as an unfair dismissal. If, that is, he knows about this option and thinks he has a chance or can afford to take it to court.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
Oh yes you can, just look at waht happened to me on 24-03-2011, the fired employee has the option to fight it as an unfair dismissal. If, that is, he knows about this option and thinks he has a chance or can afford to take it to court.
There's a difference between legal and affordable...
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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ROTFL - and some guy at work came by one day to tease me about my CP post count. I said 'I work as a developer, and you're trying to tease me for being a nerd ?'. I did do some CP posting at work, but I was also doing fun projects at night, so I did a lot of CPing then, too.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
you're trying to tease me for being a nerd
I love this, even my kids try and have a go sometimes, I think it really pisses them off that I'm rather comfortable with the fact that I'm a nerd.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
Fabio, you are just going to have to figure out how to appear to be working. It's all about appearances.
_____________________________ Give a man a mug, he drinks for a day. Teach a man to mug...
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Christian Graus wrote:
you're trying to tease me for being a nerd
I love this, even my kids try and have a go sometimes, I think it really pisses them off that I'm rather comfortable with the fact that I'm a nerd.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I just say to people "Be nice to nerds... chances are you will end up working for one some day!!"
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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I surf a lot to get answers to my programming problems (hello CodeProject!) - so where does that place me? :D
Slow AND lazy.
Help a brotha out and vote Managing Your JavaScript Library in ASP.NET as the best ASP.NET article of May 2011.
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This should be a weekly survey question...
Yup, I agree with you:rose:
You can flame me whichever way you want and I wouldn't care a bit. But if you group me with some idiots, I'll turn into your worst nightmare.