What's worse: lazy or slow? [modified]
-
Fire the slow one then tell the fast but lazy guy you fired the slow guy for surfing the net too much. Fast guy will then produce as much work as both of them and you only have to pay one salary.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!! :~
-
Mark Wallace wrote:
Productivity is, as always, the key issue.
I agree, but I've seen corner talks about how much someone "is so much on the web", yet always delivers.
Fabio Franco wrote:
I agree, but I've seen corner talks about how much someone "is so much on the web", yet always delivers.
Someone should make clear to those involved in such talks that the "yet always delivers" element of that is what's paying for their house, their car, and the food in their children's bellies. I'd recommend slapping them repeatedly about the head until they see sense and stop acting like such Victorian bitches. If someone is talented enough to deliver what is required in half the time it would take someone else, they should be grateful -- particularly because if there's a panic on, the slow guys won't go any faster, but the talented guys will perform miracles. It's the guys who have excess capacity that you can depend on in a crunch. Keep 'em happy. Give 'em a faster Internet connection.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Fortunately I managed to bring it up in a lighthearted discussion, mentioning that the only reason he didn't get to see me working feverishly so often was because he was so rarely in the office outside of normal hours!
:laugh: :laugh:
_Maxxx_ wrote:
lead balloon
A Led Zeppelin? ;-)
Silence is golden... but duct tape is silver!! Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
_Maxxx_ wrote:
lead balloon
A Led Zeppelin? ;-)
That was the idea behind the name, so I'm afraid the boys in the band thought of it first.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Fire the slow one then tell the fast but lazy guy you fired the slow guy for surfing the net too much. Fast guy will then produce as much work as both of them and you only have to pay one salary.
You've been reading "How to Lose Friends and Influence People to Hate You" again, haven't you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
You've been reading "How to Lose Friends and Influence People to Hate You" again, haven't you?
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
I would say that it depends on why the slow guy is slow. Is it because he is slow or because he puts a great deal of effort into his work. Is the lazy guy fast or just fast because he 'scribbles' everything off. The thing I'm also concerned about is why the guy that works fast doesn't go to his employer/manager and tell them that he has completed the work thereby getting more work done in a day. Insead surfing the net on the companies money. Thats called dishonesty not only lazy. So you got a slow honest person vs a lazy dishonest one.
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." << please vote!! >>
-
What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
I think you are missing one very important aspect of the question. We have a guy here who is super fast. Faster than me. But, my code is usually error-free, and his has bugs more often than not. So, you can't judge a developer just on speed alone. The time spent fixing those bugs more than makes up for the extra-fast completion of the initial work. In fact, some of his errors have been so amazingly egregious. He really should have been fired long ago...but this is county government work. They make it so hard to get rid of anyone. Once you are past 3 months, you basically have to break the law in order to be let go. It sucks. I've had to clean up more than my share of his messes. :mad: So, don't judge developers on speed alone.
-
Mark Wallace wrote:
You've been reading "How to Lose Friends and Influence People to Hate You" again, haven't you?
But my team will have the highest TPS report count. Promotion to senior management awaits!
_Josh_ wrote:
Promotion to senior management awaits!
And no friends to spend the extra money with
-
What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
The "Lazy" is a symptom of poor management. If someone can work quickly enough to complete their assigned tasks while others plod, that person should be promoted and assigned more demanding roles until the job is a sufficient challenge (within reason). A certain amount of web surfing / whatever should also be tolerated - perhaps 1 hour / day max, since no-one actually works 8+ hours straight at full productivity without a break. I am a somewhat obsessive worker, and can get "stuck in" for periods of up to 4 hours straight, but that is not every day, and not consistent. I do produce more and better code than my colleagues, and still spend some time surfing the web and lurking on CP ;).
-
I would say that it depends on why the slow guy is slow. Is it because he is slow or because he puts a great deal of effort into his work. Is the lazy guy fast or just fast because he 'scribbles' everything off. The thing I'm also concerned about is why the guy that works fast doesn't go to his employer/manager and tell them that he has completed the work thereby getting more work done in a day. Insead surfing the net on the companies money. Thats called dishonesty not only lazy. So you got a slow honest person vs a lazy dishonest one.
"Program testing can be used to show the presence of bugs, but never to show their absence." << please vote!! >>
R. Erasmus wrote:
why the slow guy is slow
Maybe just because he's average
R. Erasmus wrote:
Thats called dishonesty not only lazy
Maybe, but not necessarily. If he performs that work that he's assigned and is delivering within schedule, it doesn't mean dishonesty, specially if we don't know what kind of work he's doing. If, for example, he works on support, he might simply finish all the issues assigned to him and have no further issues. If he works on project analysis and design, he simply might finishing documentation early and wait for client feedback (and web surfing while at it). So dishonesty is a far call because it depends on a lot of variables... However if he's indeed costing more than he's making for the company and does not perform a good job I agree with you.
-
I think you are missing one very important aspect of the question. We have a guy here who is super fast. Faster than me. But, my code is usually error-free, and his has bugs more often than not. So, you can't judge a developer just on speed alone. The time spent fixing those bugs more than makes up for the extra-fast completion of the initial work. In fact, some of his errors have been so amazingly egregious. He really should have been fired long ago...but this is county government work. They make it so hard to get rid of anyone. Once you are past 3 months, you basically have to break the law in order to be let go. It sucks. I've had to clean up more than my share of his messes. :mad: So, don't judge developers on speed alone.
Alexander DiMauro wrote:
So, don't judge developers on speed alone.
Of course, but since we can't analyze everything here I wanted to take the other variables out of the equation.
-
The "Lazy" is a symptom of poor management. If someone can work quickly enough to complete their assigned tasks while others plod, that person should be promoted and assigned more demanding roles until the job is a sufficient challenge (within reason). A certain amount of web surfing / whatever should also be tolerated - perhaps 1 hour / day max, since no-one actually works 8+ hours straight at full productivity without a break. I am a somewhat obsessive worker, and can get "stuck in" for periods of up to 4 hours straight, but that is not every day, and not consistent. I do produce more and better code than my colleagues, and still spend some time surfing the web and lurking on CP ;).
Dominic Amann wrote:
more demanding roles
It would be a good way to squeeze more juice out of him.
Dominic Amann wrote:
A certain amount of web surfing / whatever should also be tolerated
Agree, productivity gain here.
Dominic Amann wrote:
I am a somewhat obsessive worker, and can get "stuck in" for periods of up to 4 hours straight
Now imagine around 7, without even a coffee run.
-
Dominic Amann wrote:
more demanding roles
It would be a good way to squeeze more juice out of him.
Dominic Amann wrote:
A certain amount of web surfing / whatever should also be tolerated
Agree, productivity gain here.
Dominic Amann wrote:
I am a somewhat obsessive worker, and can get "stuck in" for periods of up to 4 hours straight
Now imagine around 7, without even a coffee run.
Fabio Franco wrote:
Now imagine around 7, without even a coffee run.
That only happens for me on really interesting / knotty problems. Those days I sometimes wake up thinking in code.
-
R. Erasmus wrote:
why the slow guy is slow
Maybe just because he's average
R. Erasmus wrote:
Thats called dishonesty not only lazy
Maybe, but not necessarily. If he performs that work that he's assigned and is delivering within schedule, it doesn't mean dishonesty, specially if we don't know what kind of work he's doing. If, for example, he works on support, he might simply finish all the issues assigned to him and have no further issues. If he works on project analysis and design, he simply might finishing documentation early and wait for client feedback (and web surfing while at it). So dishonesty is a far call because it depends on a lot of variables... However if he's indeed costing more than he's making for the company and does not perform a good job I agree with you.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
Of course you need to give people a heads up and try to encourage them, you don't just fire someone. In this country, you can't legally do that anyhow.
Oh yes you can, just look at waht happened to me on 24-03-2011, the fired employee has the option to fight it as an unfair dismissal. If, that is, he knows about this option and thinks he has a chance or can afford to take it to court.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
-
What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
First, I think we need to get away from appearances. Who cares what the "lazy" guy looks like? The only questions a business needs to concern itself with are, "are your employees doing the work they're assigned in a timely manner?", and "are they doing it well?" The lazy guy may very well be a craptastic coder: getting things "done" quickly, but with a chimpanzee-like attention to detail. The "slow" guy may take longer, but produce better results. Then, do you want to motivate the crap coder to produce more crap? They come to similar results on different axes: one great on quality, not so good on time, the other great on time, not so good on quality. Now, let's say that isn't the case: let's say the lazy guy produces good code quickly. Then, it's a matter of finding out why he's "lazy". What can be done to motiviate him to put in a full day's work? Money? Recognition? New technology? Ultimately, just about the only thing management need to get right is how to get the most out of their employees. Why management often can't figure out ways to be creative when motivating/recognizing the best employees (it's not about money) is beyond me. An underlying assumption of your question (I think) is that people live to work, which simply isn't the case. Perhaps the "lazy" guy is satisfied with his lot in life (i.e., status, income, et cetera). I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with someone making a conscious decision to stay a junior developer for the rest of their life, if that makes them happy. Of course, they then don't get to bitch when hard-working-but-slow guy gets the recognition/advancement/whatever.
-
Fabio Franco wrote:
Now imagine around 7, without even a coffee run.
That only happens for me on really interesting / knotty problems. Those days I sometimes wake up thinking in code.
Exactly, it's amazing how interesting problems can keep you going, but sometimes it's a bad thing because you can get so sucked into the problem that you might miss an elegant solution.
-
First, I think we need to get away from appearances. Who cares what the "lazy" guy looks like? The only questions a business needs to concern itself with are, "are your employees doing the work they're assigned in a timely manner?", and "are they doing it well?" The lazy guy may very well be a craptastic coder: getting things "done" quickly, but with a chimpanzee-like attention to detail. The "slow" guy may take longer, but produce better results. Then, do you want to motivate the crap coder to produce more crap? They come to similar results on different axes: one great on quality, not so good on time, the other great on time, not so good on quality. Now, let's say that isn't the case: let's say the lazy guy produces good code quickly. Then, it's a matter of finding out why he's "lazy". What can be done to motiviate him to put in a full day's work? Money? Recognition? New technology? Ultimately, just about the only thing management need to get right is how to get the most out of their employees. Why management often can't figure out ways to be creative when motivating/recognizing the best employees (it's not about money) is beyond me. An underlying assumption of your question (I think) is that people live to work, which simply isn't the case. Perhaps the "lazy" guy is satisfied with his lot in life (i.e., status, income, et cetera). I don't think there's necessarily anything wrong with someone making a conscious decision to stay a junior developer for the rest of their life, if that makes them happy. Of course, they then don't get to bitch when hard-working-but-slow guy gets the recognition/advancement/whatever.
agolddog wrote:
First, I think we need to get away from appearances. Who cares what the "lazy" guy looks like?
In an ideal world that would be great, the thing is that "looking" bad might actually hurt someone's career, that's the problem.
agolddog wrote:
an't figure out ways to be creative when motivating/recognizing the best employees (it's not about money) is beyond me.
You touched the X of the question, it's beyond me also, there's so much good to inspire an employee and I rarely see management doing anything about it, it blows me away and I know there are countless ways to accomplish it without even touching the company's pocket.
agolddog wrote:
Perhaps the "lazy" guy is satisfied with his lot in life
Yeah, that happens, which is also beyond me (talking about career) and yet I believe these are the happiest people.
-
Exactly, it's amazing how interesting problems can keep you going, but sometimes it's a bad thing because you can get so sucked into the problem that you might miss an elegant solution.
Fabio Franco wrote:
Exactly, it's amazing how interesting problems can keep you going, but sometimes it's a bad thing because you can get so sucked into the problem that you might miss an elegant solution.
So true - it's gotten to the point that sometimes I can tell I am doing it wrong because it is so difficult. Sometimes, when I am wise, I back away after a couple of hours, do something else, and tackle the tough problem in the morning. Othertimes, I burn the midnight oil, and dig myself pretty deep before cottoning on :sigh: . The worst case is when some manager tells you you must work exclusively on a certain problem, even though you are pretty sure you are missing something, but not in the frame of mind to really see the issue.
-
What do you guys think it's worse? Someone that spends half of the day surfing the web because he can work faster than the others, or the others that can't work fast enough? [Edit] The main reason I'm asking is because the lazy guy might look bad because he's seen by others surfing all the time, but yet, produces the same amount of products. While the slow guy could actually look like a much more dedicated employee and look better in the company.
modified on Wednesday, June 22, 2011 4:43 PM
Lazy is worse. Especially if they waste the time up front rather than after completing their assigned task. Sometimes tasks take longer than expected, and the slow worker will at least be more predictable in completion times with less excuse for taking too long. I don't have much problem with someone who can work faster taking some of that post-completion time to work on other projects (even off-plan or non-sanctioned ones) or build their skill set. It'd be good if they were enough of a team-oriented member to help use some of that extra time to offload work from slower coworkers.
patbob