Observing Schrodinger's cat [modified]

[grilialex]

Observation = Interaction. This is not understood by the software guys because in software Observation != Interaction. Software Terms: Observation is reading a variable or using a method to read an internal state. Interaction may inherit data manipulation (modification or write) to the element. Hardware Terms: I will put a real life example to be understood: I have a microprocessor that does not work. The main loop does not work at all and seems dead. I place the oscilloscope on its crystal clock generator and oops! everything works fine. Even if i remove the probe (or may be not). In real life observation is often interactive, either because the probe capacitance added to the inspecting circuit or a photon needed to read an atom's state. We disturb things in order to observe. However for most real life application this disturbance is insignificant and can be ignored, thus misleading us to the Observation != Interaction principle.

[BillWoodruff]

A form of consciousness comprised of an ever self-creating fictional continuity of experience, the observer, experiences a perceptual fictional continuity of a box, in which there's a perceptual fictional continuity of a cat, just as the cat, a form of consciousness comprised of an ever self-creating fictional continuity of experience, experiences a perceptual fictional continuity of a box, outside of which is a perceptual fictional continuity of an observer. This is why doughnuts have holes. Vernon Ruldolph realized this in 1937, reaching enlightenment when he knocked a hole in the wall of the first Krispy Kreme bakery so he could sell to customers on the street[^] ... see the 1937 entry in the Flash animation. Does anyone ever ask the box how it feels ? best, Bill p.s. Sunyata, Stern-Gerlach, Einstein Podolsky Rosen Paradox, Hartle-Hawking hypothesis[^]

"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." C.S. Lewis

[Alexander DiMauro]

viaducting wrote:

And finally, how much Scotch does it take to make yourself believe you understand this stuff?

Well, no scotch, but during my QM class at university, it sure took a lot, and I mean A LOT, of coffee to make it through those exams...and I still don't think I fully understand it! Maybe scotch would have been better! :laugh: Oh well, too late now...

The world is going to laugh at you anyway, might as well crack the 1st joke!

[ely_bob]

using your argument there is actually a meta-duality in the the state of "observation".. the entropic knowledge that the cat has is equivalent to the knowledge of the observer as they are one in the same, however when the observer opens the box to measure the entropy is released and the system becomes slightly more ordered. because it is a closed system the net result is only one observation. -- once a quantum mechanics grad student... :-\

I'd blame it on the Brain farts.. But let's be honest, it really is more like a Methane factory between my ears some days then it is anything else...
-----
"The conversations he was having with himself were becoming ominous."-.. On the radio...

[greldak]

Yes the cat is an active observer (assuming its alive) and from its viewpoint the state has settled to ono of the two possibilities. However until the box is opened there are still two seperate states as far as the external observer is concerned - one has a living cat which has observed itself to be alive and the other has a dead cat which in its final moment of life observed its death. i.e. for the internal observer the state has been fixed but for the external observer it still is not determined which internal observer you have.

[brother_malthius]

_Maxxx_ wrote:

Looking at the bottle (most of which is within my system, and therefore measurable by me), I'd say about a third of a 750ml bottle, plus a couple of pints of Guinness.

Unless you are moving at relativistic speeds, then its increasingly more.

[wizardzz]

John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:

If the tree falls and crushes you,

you had nothing to do with it, right?

"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson

[SeattleC]

S Houghtelin wrote:

So if it wasn't observed, it never happe[ne]d? That is so "tree falls..." if I never heard it.

Yes, exactly. Only, you can't even say the tree fell, because nobody observed it. If you already knew that the tree fell, it must have been by observation or by construction, in which case the wave function has already collapsed. I *love* quantum philosophy!

[Member 7753803]

viaducting wrote:

As the cat is an active observer inside the box, isn't the whole premise of the thought experiment flawed?

Well, if the cat is asleep all the time it stays in the box, then it can't be an active observer.

modified on Monday, July 25, 2011 12:13 PM

[Michael Kernaghan]

This discussion is 80 years out of date. Collapse of the wavefunction is an idea from the 1930's.

[patbob]

"As the cat is an active observer inside the box, isn't the whole premise of the thought experiment flawed?" More importantly than that, whenever I put my cats in boxes, they usually make it known that they are still very much alive without my having to peek inside, not to mention that they are not terribly happy about their predicament either. Cat in a box? Schrodinger obviously never took his cat to the vet :)

patbob

[Bob work]

I always thought that the point of the thought experiment was that "you don't know anything until you get off your behind, open the box, and take a look." Without gathering additional information, the cat is both "as good as new" and "as good as dead" as far as the rest of us are concerned - and the cat doesn't get a vote in the matter. Perhaps I missed the point of the lecture way back when... :doh: As far as the use of synaptic efficiency enhancer goes, I think 3 full shots of a reputable single-malt will get you started nicely.

-Bob

[peterchen]

Even moreso, it was a thought experiment to show "this is ridiculous, that's really what you are planning to use?"

FILETIME to time_t
| FoldWithUs! | sighist | WhoIncludes - Analyzing C++ include file hierarchy

[mcuartas]

If there is a TRUE observer this piece of reality needs to be simulated. If the observer is part of the simulation, obviously, it is not needed. If it is not simulated their state remains uncertain... It's a matter of resource saving. So the premise is correct if the cat is not a TRUE observer. Hope this helps ;)

[ghle]

I never heard the Big Bang, but I understand that it happened.

Gary

[rkrishnasanka]

The fact that we make the observation is made , means that the system is not in a quantum state (unknown/variable/anything is possible). and about intelligence , just because my retard friend makes the observation; the outcome doesnt change. (id take a shot at IQ saying that its just bullcrap because QM doesnt vary with IQ)

[DarthDana]

How do you know he didn't already use up the other eight and you didn't observe it? :-D

[Lost User]

Another system. Any dumb particle would do.