Decision Time. Have your say....
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I've thought about it and said No. I still like the whole "hello world" thing of making this machine do what i want it to do (read the Verity Stobbs link that was posted earlier).
Pete
It's fun getting the trained simians to do something. I found in the early stages that I got frustrated by the fact that the juniors take tow or three times as long to do anything as it would take me. Then I had an epiphany, the five devs can still produce more than I could as long as I keep them busy.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Depends on your career plan. If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position. I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
CCu
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I'm in kinda a similar situation, looking out for jobs, been doing C++ for 12+ years and been doing C# for the last 3 years too. My problem is I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs available with the little experience I have. (and when recruiters here ask for C# .NET experience, they really mean ASP.NET experience) With your experience level I'd go with the C#, but that's as much about me getting into learning all the C# stuff I've put off learning up to now and wanting to get more experience using C#. I'd say go with the language you want to write code in most at the minute if all else is equal.
Pete
Peter Mulholland wrote:
I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs
Bah, why not? Experience as a developer should be more important that what language you were using. If you run into a company that doesn't think like that you probably don't want to work for them anyway. Each time I've had to look for work in the last 10 years my first step was to ask for about 20-30% more pay than I had at the last job. I didn't always find a job that would meet what I asked for. But by aiming high I always able to negotiate a pay level that was still well above the previous gig. Always aim for the sky.
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It's fun getting the trained simians to do something. I found in the early stages that I got frustrated by the fact that the juniors take tow or three times as long to do anything as it would take me. Then I had an epiphany, the five devs can still produce more than I could as long as I keep them busy.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Maybe I just like to reinvent the wheel, I dunno. The idea of getting someone else to do the work I'd like to be doing while I do all the meetings and plannning and all that abstract stuff just doesn't work for me. And I don't have a problem with that.
Pete
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Go with the one having better pay and benefits. If those are the same, I would go with the C++ job. Even Microsoft still uses C++ for XBox programming (the Framework is too slow and bloated for situations needing speed and compactness; imagine that.) There is the added advantage in that, by keeping your C++ skills up to date, your skills remain a bit more marketable, in that you can switch to mainframe computing if that is the job available. Also, I have seen far too many startups with great ideas flounder: if I am investing my time in a company, I want a reasonable assurance that the company will still be there in three or five years. And if the C++ job does port to C#, you are in an excellent position to retain your job for that project given your current skill set.
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Depends on your career plan. If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position. I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
CCu
Regarding the earnings of a FORTRAN programmer: I took a look at Salary Expert to see how much a FORTRAN programmer makes[^]. The average is a bit more than C++ and C# programmers: while there aren't as many jobs, there are far fewer people able to fill those jobs, creating a higher demand for that skill.
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Peter Mulholland wrote:
I can't ask for the the same money in the C# jobs
Bah, why not? Experience as a developer should be more important that what language you were using. If you run into a company that doesn't think like that you probably don't want to work for them anyway. Each time I've had to look for work in the last 10 years my first step was to ask for about 20-30% more pay than I had at the last job. I didn't always find a job that would meet what I asked for. But by aiming high I always able to negotiate a pay level that was still well above the previous gig. Always aim for the sky.
Well, that is one big factor I look into. If there is no substantial difference, I stay put.
Yusuf May I help you?
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Depends on your career plan. If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position. I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
CCu
Rage wrote:
If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position.
having multiple tools up to date in your toolbox is big asset.
Rage wrote:
I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
I hope you're enjoying what you doing. This is one of the hardest choice I have to make in my carrier path.
Yusuf May I help you?
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Regarding the earnings of a FORTRAN programmer: I took a look at Salary Expert to see how much a FORTRAN programmer makes[^]. The average is a bit more than C++ and C# programmers: while there aren't as many jobs, there are far fewer people able to fill those jobs, creating a higher demand for that skill.
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Rage wrote:
If you know that you will stay in the C++ position, and become one of the last C++ gurus ( guess how much someone programming in FORTRAN earns nowadays ), then go for it. If you cn't stay more than 5 years at the same place, go for the C# position.
having multiple tools up to date in your toolbox is big asset.
Rage wrote:
I understand your doubts: I had to make the same choice 5 years ago, which was even harder : programming or not programming ( I chose the second ), making me miss the C# wagon; so it is not possible anymore for me to find a position as a programmer...
I hope you're enjoying what you doing. This is one of the hardest choice I have to make in my carrier path.
Yusuf May I help you?
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Yusuf wrote:
I hope you're enjoying what you doing
Not as much as programming. But I made that choice to be able to spend more time with my family.
CCu
spending time with family and loved ones is priceless :thumbsup:
Yusuf May I help you?
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spending time with family and loved ones is priceless :thumbsup:
Yusuf May I help you?
Tell me about it. 2 days a week with the family is not enough. :sigh:
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Gregory.Gadow wrote:
The average is a bit more than C++ and C# programmers
This was precisely my point : he could become the equivalent of a today FORTRAN programmer for C++ in 15 years.
CCu
Ah. Sorry, I misunderstood.
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Go with the one having better pay and benefits. If those are the same, I would go with the C++ job. Even Microsoft still uses C++ for XBox programming (the Framework is too slow and bloated for situations needing speed and compactness; imagine that.) There is the added advantage in that, by keeping your C++ skills up to date, your skills remain a bit more marketable, in that you can switch to mainframe computing if that is the job available. Also, I have seen far too many startups with great ideas flounder: if I am investing my time in a company, I want a reasonable assurance that the company will still be there in three or five years. And if the C++ job does port to C#, you are in an excellent position to retain your job for that project given your current skill set.
Gregory.Gadow wrote:
Go with the one having better pay and benefits.
no brainier
Gregory.Gadow wrote:
Even Microsoft still uses C++ for XBox programming (the Framework is too slow and bloated for situations needing speed and compactness; imagine that.) There is the added advantage in that, by keeping your C++ skills up to date, your skills remain a bit more marketable, in that you can switch to mainframe computing if that is the job available.
There are a number of high stake and very visible projects still using C++.
Yusuf May I help you?
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
I'm a C/C++ guy to the core, so this wouldn't even be a decision for me. However, I am fully cognizant that my career is essentially a dead end. I got 10-15 years left and once my youngest graduates high school in three years, I'll be willing to relocate just about anywhere, so that's perfectly fine for me. My advice is to stick with C# and concentrate on web services. Purely anecdotaly, I get many more leads for C# positions, especially in web services, they tend to pay better and I wouldn't have to relocate. (And if you do switch back to C++, for the sake of all that is good, remember that there is no garbage collector. Also remember that typically C++ is chosen to be lean and mean, so don't abuse the heap. Lest you think I jest, I can usually tell if a developer is coming back to C++ from C#. Above all, their code tends to leak like a sieve.)
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Gregory.Gadow wrote:
Go with the one having better pay and benefits.
no brainier
Gregory.Gadow wrote:
Even Microsoft still uses C++ for XBox programming (the Framework is too slow and bloated for situations needing speed and compactness; imagine that.) There is the added advantage in that, by keeping your C++ skills up to date, your skills remain a bit more marketable, in that you can switch to mainframe computing if that is the job available.
There are a number of high stake and very visible projects still using C++.
Yusuf May I help you?
Yusuf wrote:
There are a number of high stake and very visible projects still using C++.
There are, but the overall number of C++ positions is shrinking, especially for new development.
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
Accept one job, and offer to do consulting for the other company.
Best wishes, Hans
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Accept one job, and offer to do consulting for the other company.
Best wishes, Hans
smart idea, except I am not sure if I can handle both at the same time. Wait a minute, someone was asking the C# position, may be I can outsource it to him :-O
Yusuf May I help you?
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Background: Until the last 4-5 years, I was coding in C++ for living, even though I have jumped into the .NET wagon in the early beta time (early 2000 I guess), I stayed doing C++ while doing some small tasks in C#. The last 5 years I have been into solid C# work. Current Situation: I have been looking for jobs lately and now I am lucky to be presented with few prospects. I have made it all the way through the interview process and now I’m invited into second interview in couple of places. One place is inviting me to work in their C++ team, while the other is in C#. I love both of them and there is major difference between them C++ side: - Good company - Nice Team - Very exciting product - Challenging work - Lead position - C# - Good *new* company with lots of potential (so far no one has similar product) - Very small team, but potential for growth - - Not as challenging as the C++ product - Lead position. So my dilemma is, if I jump into the C++ wagon back again, am I inflicting harm to myself. I know C++ won't go away any time soon (Probably never), but in my current job search the positions I found for C# way way outnumber those for C++. I would assume this will be the same, say in 5 years. While I have no problem switching from C++ to C#, but employers will be looking into what one was doing recently when considering him/her. And I am not sure what that means falling back to C++ after solid 5 years in C#. Now, The C++ product will be ported into C#, I was told, but not any time soon (may be in the next 3-5 years). That is good but there is no guarantee that will happen as well. I have been working with C# backend, services and web applications. Recently I'm into WCF. I got no windows forms or WPF experience, but would love to venture into them down the road. So, if you were in similar situation, what would you do? Would you consider going back into a language that you have enjoyed at the risk of minimizing your potential C# learning and real world work progress? Or would you toss the C++ option at this stage and stick to C#?
Yusuf May I help you?
The new recession/slowdown is already fact and it could be worse than the previous one. Choose the more stable company considering that the newbies are usually laid out first.
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Yusuf wrote:
There are a number of high stake and very visible projects still using C++.
There are, but the overall number of C++ positions is shrinking, especially for new development.