Interviewing a junior developer
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer are you?
Surely, he was joking?
Maybe but Huffle has form.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- If I punched you right now, what would you do?
If you were manly enough, the correct first response is bleed. If you're a weedy interview type, the correct response is laugh at you and then rip your head off.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- Boxers or briefs?
I don't know. I've never fought a brief before, but I do know that being hit by a boxer hurts.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I don't know. I've never fought a brief before, but I do know that being hit by a boxer hurts.
I think fights with briefs would be a lot shorter.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
That is SUCH a cop-out. Like those chumps in the pub who, when you ask them what they meant by some stupid thing they just said, they twirl their eyebrows arrogantly and say "what do you think it means..?" like they're Spock or something and they think they're being all edgy and interesting when in fact they're just being annoying. X| Gentle suggestion... Answer the man's question, suggest some areas of knowledge for him to look for. He's looking for ideas and pointers. I guess my tone might be a little hard here, and I know you're a respected member. But some of us don't have the benefit of experience, and when I go looking for hints, and all I get are "Well, what do you think?", I already know that, dammit! That's why I'm asking for your ideas.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com http://melpadden.wordpress.com
My point was that it's the company the OP works for. We know nothing about it, the work it does nor the precise definition of 'Junior Developer' within that organization. Whatever any of us write here could easily be misunderstood/misinterpreted by the OP and therefore cause difficulties in the interview process. It is not a cop-out at all. The OP's company obviously had sufficient faith in their abilities to promote them to that position and they should therefore have the same belief in their own abilities. In any event, they should be discussing this with their colleagues/HR if they have any doubts. If it had been a case where the OP was starting a new company and therefore had no colleagues in addition to little experience in this area, then it might be more appropriate to ask in a forum like this.
Mel Padden wrote:
and I know you're a respected member
Not necessarily true. Longevity and verbosity bring 'reputation' points which does not have to imply respect. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
I don't know. I've never fought a brief before, but I do know that being hit by a boxer hurts.
I think fights with briefs would be a lot shorter.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997TBH it depends on who's wearing the briefs. If it was Salma Hayek I would hope it went on for some time.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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I obviously have a couple of ideas of my own. But this being the very first time I'll ever interview someone, I wanted to know other, maybe more experienced, people's opinions on the subject.
aureliosjr wrote:
I wanted to know other, maybe more experienced, people's opinions on the subject.
In a situation like this you should be talking to people in your company. Colleagues, or if you absolutely must HR :). The responses that you will get there will be far more relevant to the situation.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
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My point was that it's the company the OP works for. We know nothing about it, the work it does nor the precise definition of 'Junior Developer' within that organization. Whatever any of us write here could easily be misunderstood/misinterpreted by the OP and therefore cause difficulties in the interview process. It is not a cop-out at all. The OP's company obviously had sufficient faith in their abilities to promote them to that position and they should therefore have the same belief in their own abilities. In any event, they should be discussing this with their colleagues/HR if they have any doubts. If it had been a case where the OP was starting a new company and therefore had no colleagues in addition to little experience in this area, then it might be more appropriate to ask in a forum like this.
Mel Padden wrote:
and I know you're a respected member
Not necessarily true. Longevity and verbosity bring 'reputation' points which does not have to imply respect. :-D
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Henry Minute wrote:
My point was that it's the company the OP works for. We know nothing about it, the work it does nor the precise definition of 'Junior Developer' within that organization.
Fair enough point, but Junior Developer, in the context of a .NET forum, implies a fairly narrow band of credible knowledge...
Henry Minute wrote:
It is not a cop-out at all. The OP's company obviously had sufficient faith in their abilities to promote them to that position and they should therefore have the same belief in their own abilities. In any event, they should be discussing this with their colleagues/HR if they have any doubts.
Should be, in a perfect world, but we've all been in a place where we're expected to know something, we're eager to please, and we're anxious about our abilities and we don't want to look like a novice.
Henry Minute wrote:
Not necessarily true. Longevity and verbosity bring 'reputation' points which does not have to imply respect. :-D
Well I for one respect your reasoned counter-argument.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com http://melpadden.wordpress.com
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TBH it depends on who's wearing the briefs. If it was Salma Hayek I would hope it went on for some time.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
The intent of the humor wasn't in regards to who was wearing the briefs. brief, short - a fight with a brief would be shorter... Humor loses a lot of its zing when it has to be explained.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I have recently been promoted to a managing position in my company, and next week I'll have to conduct my first interview, which will be for a junior C#/.NET developer position. I would like to ask you guys what kind of questions you think are important to ask someone applying for this job, and the basic knowledges you think the candidates should have. Thanks in advance for your help.
Make sure the candidate walks the walk and does not only talk the talk. IOW give him a small assignment to work on. In our company this was creating a small form that reads in a txt file and shows it in a textbox. Each other character needed to be converted to uppercase. A progressbar and a label indicating how long the convertion took was mandatory. test duration was about 30 minutes (give them time to finish up) and we asked some questions afterwards like how could you speed up things. Do you know this and this object. Where would you look for info if i gave you this problem, etc... All this, of course, besides the fact they have the right attitude for your team. We refused people who aced the test because of this. hope this helps.
V.
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Pete O'Hanlon wrote:
You really aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer are you?
Surely, he was joking?
Unlikely given his previous form.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Make sure the candidate walks the walk and does not only talk the talk. IOW give him a small assignment to work on. In our company this was creating a small form that reads in a txt file and shows it in a textbox. Each other character needed to be converted to uppercase. A progressbar and a label indicating how long the convertion took was mandatory. test duration was about 30 minutes (give them time to finish up) and we asked some questions afterwards like how could you speed up things. Do you know this and this object. Where would you look for info if i gave you this problem, etc... All this, of course, besides the fact they have the right attitude for your team. We refused people who aced the test because of this. hope this helps.
V.
A progressbar? How big was the file? Here's an even better idea. Provide a program 9along the same lines) that's already written, but is missing the critical method that changes the data's case, and ask the candidate to fill in the missing function. The test here is three-fold. 0) Can he correctly implement the function (illustrates coding skill) 1) Does his coding style fit in the existing code tyle of the application (indenting, variable names, that kind of thing) 2) Did he comment his code?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Henry Minute wrote:
What are you going to do half way through, when you can't quite remember what we said, break off to log on to CP and get clarification?
:rolleyes: I tried that on my last date and it all went horribly wrong!
Ali
Alison P wrote:
:rolleyes: I tried that on my last date and it all went horribly wrong!
Which is why I gave you my mobile number and told you to call me if you forgot what to do.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
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Now, if you were Peter[^], I'd have you onboard for the entertainment value alone.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Regrettably, I'm not that animated...
Real men don't use instructions. They are only the manufacturers opinion on how to put the thing together. Manfred R. Bihy: "Looks as if OP is learning resistant."
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He went quiet and started looking worried when I told him I spent a lot of time in the Lounge with Rage, Dalek Dave, Slacker, Nagy, Mr Minute and an outlaw ... can't understand it myself. :confused:
Ali
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A progressbar? How big was the file? Here's an even better idea. Provide a program 9along the same lines) that's already written, but is missing the critical method that changes the data's case, and ask the candidate to fill in the missing function. The test here is three-fold. 0) Can he correctly implement the function (illustrates coding skill) 1) Does his coding style fit in the existing code tyle of the application (indenting, variable names, that kind of thing) 2) Did he comment his code?
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Alison P wrote:
:rolleyes: I tried that on my last date and it all went horribly wrong!
Which is why I gave you my mobile number and told you to call me if you forgot what to do.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash One Fine Saturday. 24/04/2004
... and I did take your advice ... but apparently dancing on the table in your underwear in the middle of a Fine French Restaurant was not what he expected on a first date! :rolleyes: That's the last time I listen to you! ;)
Ali
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- Ginger or Marianne? 1) Boxers or briefs? 2) What is your opinion of the word "hyphenated"? 3) What's the difference between an orange? 4) If you were traveling on an un-marked circle with no visible landmarks, would you know a stopping point when you saw it? 5) If a man spoke in the forest, and there wasn't a woman around to hear him,, would he still be wrong? 6) If I punched you right now, what would you do? 7) Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the Communist party? 8) If you were to die right now, would you rather be shot by an AR-15 or slashed with a machete? To add a sense of urgency to the question, lay both weapons on the table. 9) Bring a pretty secretary into the room, and say, "So, what do you think of Ms. Hardbody's butt?"
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997modified on Tuesday, September 6, 2011 7:43 AM
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
- If a man spoke in the forest, and there wasn't a woman around to hear him,, would he still be wrong?
:rolleyes: Yes, obviously!
Ali
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I have recently been promoted to a managing position in my company, and next week I'll have to conduct my first interview, which will be for a junior C#/.NET developer position. I would like to ask you guys what kind of questions you think are important to ask someone applying for this job, and the basic knowledges you think the candidates should have. Thanks in advance for your help.
Check for a propensity toward text speak. X|
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I have recently been promoted to a managing position in my company, and next week I'll have to conduct my first interview, which will be for a junior C#/.NET developer position. I would like to ask you guys what kind of questions you think are important to ask someone applying for this job, and the basic knowledges you think the candidates should have. Thanks in advance for your help.
For a junior role (assuming your company's scale is reasonably normal), the important thing is not knowledge (beyond a basic ability to actually write C# and know his way around the bits of the framework you need for a basic task, e.g. System, WinForms and/or WPF, IO, Collections/Collections.Generic ... I guess that's about it), but ability to learn, take advice and get on with your team. My company gives applicants a programming challenge (not something esoteric or with trick questions, just a simple console app), questions allowed, and asks them to give a presentation. That checks that they vaguely know what they're doing, that they can ask for help in a reasonable way if they need it, and makes sure that they can explain themselves. I think that is a good approach. It's important that you actually give them at least a short hands-on test, in my opinion, because otherwise the CV-enhancers will get in and then be a huge drain on resources as you realise (once they have the job and it's hard to get rid of them) that they actually don't know what they're doing like they said they did. As for what they should know, it should be enough to make a simple self-contained application. That means the main language features (not necessarily recent stuff like Linq, lambdas, anonymous delegates and the like) and bits of the Framework that you really must know (listed above). If it's for a web based role, at least a basic idea of how ASP.net works would be a good idea. The most important piece of knowledge though is how to find documentation for the bits you don't know (though C# is fairly easy for this, it gets the top of most Google hits if you just enter a class name). Ask them a few questions on simple stuff that they really should know, and then ask at least one that a junior guy probably won't know (for example, how would you data bind a List<SomeObject> to a data grid with only certain columns shown), and when he looks worried, say that you don't expect him to know but ask how he'd go about finding out.
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He went quiet and started looking worried when I told him I spent a lot of time in the Lounge with Rage, Dalek Dave, Slacker, Nagy, Mr Minute and an outlaw ... can't understand it myself. :confused:
Ali
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Maybe but Huffle has form.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
