Agree or Disagree
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This[^] lovely lady is waving just for you.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
I laughed just by reading the link.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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I laughed just by reading the link.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
If she doesn't do it for him, nothing will.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Rutvik Dave wrote:
Now, why you want to incept this kind of hopes in my mind... why ?
Okay have Nora Batty[^] instead.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
Ya okay, I am fine without any hopes... really... X|
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This[^] lovely lady is waving just for you.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
You broke your promise! :sigh:
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Click Here to read my most recent blog entry concernign programming specialty vs aptitute. Thoughts? I thought this may spur some conversation.
________ John Y. Developer
Bit of both: as someone else has pointed out, it really depends on the role and what is required. I get hired because I have years and years and years of both programming and banking experience. I've also found that however gifted a young developer is, they don't always 'get' what is required of them: something that only experience will give you. Personally I prefer to hire someone who has a bit of both but not quite so important for juniors though they must be able to demonstrate some decent social skills: you won't belive the number of kids that have no idea how to act around other people.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
mmmm... bacon!!
"You have died of Dysentery!" Have a nice day! ~Todd Gibson
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ChrisElston wrote:
Not necessarily.
You dont consider experience useful ? come on mate... Whenever you need to google something that is mostly because you havent experience that issue before, if you did you could have solved the issue without googling. and after googleing the solution you learn that thing, now if you had experience you could have saved that time. :)
If you're hiding behind all your experience you might not be able to recognise when you don't know something because you have all this experience. You might not realise that there is something new coming along because you are nice and snug and safe in your bed of experience.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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Click Here to read my most recent blog entry concernign programming specialty vs aptitute. Thoughts? I thought this may spur some conversation.
________ John Y. Developer
I completely disagree with you and hate working with developers with your attitude. The notion that knowing how programming works makes you productive in any language after a bit of learning is beyond arrogant. Beginners at anything make beginner mistakes and most companies can't afford to deal with that on both the short and long/maintenance. The reason senior developers are desired is because they have actual experience, not theory. Above all, they know what doesn't work. A few years ago, I worked with a guy who learned .NET "on the job". His code mostly worked. But, he didn't understand many subtleties of .NET and C#. The end result were lots of edge case errors and weird failures. We're still dealing with the results of that to this day. (The person who took over the code made a mistake in regards to top most window, due to not fully understanding Win32.) The end result is that it's cost us time and money because we uses a jack of all trades and not a true senior developer in that skill set.
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I completely disagree with you and hate working with developers with your attitude. The notion that knowing how programming works makes you productive in any language after a bit of learning is beyond arrogant. Beginners at anything make beginner mistakes and most companies can't afford to deal with that on both the short and long/maintenance. The reason senior developers are desired is because they have actual experience, not theory. Above all, they know what doesn't work. A few years ago, I worked with a guy who learned .NET "on the job". His code mostly worked. But, he didn't understand many subtleties of .NET and C#. The end result were lots of edge case errors and weird failures. We're still dealing with the results of that to this day. (The person who took over the code made a mistake in regards to top most window, due to not fully understanding Win32.) The end result is that it's cost us time and money because we uses a jack of all trades and not a true senior developer in that skill set.
I definitely do NOT disagree with your response, and I sincerely apologize if I come across as arrogant. That was not my intention. And to point out one of the first lines in my blog: "I realize that sometimes a project requires immediate knowledge on the specific technology..." If that work you mentioned cost you money and time, it would more than likely fall under that statement. Mistakes will be made my anybody -- especially one learning the trade. My point was not to shy away against experts in certain languages, but not to merely discount some because their experience is not 100% specific to a language/technology. And bottom line, what I was trying to say is that I would hate for developers to get "stuck" in whatever languages/technoloy their first (few) jobs were.
________ John Y. Developer
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Click Here to read my most recent blog entry concernign programming specialty vs aptitute. Thoughts? I thought this may spur some conversation.
________ John Y. Developer
From the blog.
John Y. wrote:
I definitely don’t know EVERYTHING, but I can Google the hell out of ANYTHING!
The fact that one can produce code doesn't mean that one can use it effectively, completely and even correctly. An example of that is the difference between coding in C, C# and SQL. Each of them requires a significantly different approach in thinking (procedural, OO, set) to use the language correctly. It is readily apparent when one looks at an implementation in one language done by someone who doesn't know how the other language works. For example large amounts of code in C# (or C++) written following a procedural view. Or large amounts of SQL that use loops.
Would you rather have someone who knows a bunch about one particular thing,
Definitely that is sometimes needed. For example setting up a multi-sourced database solution with fail over, replication and an analysis of costs and options is not something that I want done via google. Nor do I want to rely on a business analyst to support a large company focusing on finance whose only experience previously was is mechanical engineering analysis. They might learn in time but there is domain knowledge that one just cannot pick up in a week.
John Y. wrote:
One of my favorite examples was when I wrote an AWK (yeah, that’s right :-P ) script to normalize a formatted age-listing report into a CSV file for an accountant friend of mine.
I don't think this is comparable. I create one-shots all of the time in perl. However I almost never deliver perl code into production for one simple reason: most developers do not know it and at the places I have worked the primary language is not perl. So to meet the needs of the business (which is more than just implementation) I don't use perl.
John Y. wrote:
Something that has been bothering me for quite some time now is the “required” experience placed on so many technology job-postings. Now, this is just my generalized opinion — I realize that sometimes a project requires immediate knowledge on the specific technology, but when looking for a permanent employee, does it REALLY make that much of a difference if he/she has had so many years working in a certain language?
There are different reasons for doing that however. For example there are
