Anyone here actually care about Windows 8 and silverlight / wpf / jupiter controversy?
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Ditto. As for WTF WPF and Silverlight. Can't use the second here and no desire to use the first (which provides no added value to anything we do).
Just like that old Carly Simon song... "You're so funny, You probably think this joke is about you" My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.
GenJerDan wrote:
As for WTF WPF and Silverlight
+5 just for that :laugh:
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Microsoft also thought we'd like Vista.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I work at a company that is predominantly XP still. I am fighting an uphill battle just to upgrade our servers to server 2008 from 2003 even though we HAVE to do so due to failing and expiring software, such as Great Plains( we have a really old version that is stopped support at end of year). Basically the win8 routine has little to no effect on me currently as I would be surprised to have more than a handful of win7 machines by the end of next year, much less anything higher. Personally my opinion is such: Unless you are a software shop of some sort, if you work for corporate somewhere, the whole thing is almost a moot point as most companies are very slow to upgrade. by the time a lot of companies get around to win8 there will probably be win12 out. If you are a software shop that needs to stay latest and greatest, then the only option is as always with MS... roll with the punches and get out the Google to learn it :-D
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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ahmed zahmed wrote:
Seems much ado about nothing.
It's not nothing to people who make or are planning to make wpf or silverlight apps. It's not nothing to people who have invested heavily in c# when there is serious speculation Microsoft is throwing it's weight behind c++ *over* c# or vb.net (which will make some old timers here happy I'm sure). It's not nothing to people who do not want to use Javascript + HTML 5 for their main development language.
There is no failure only feedback
Not attempting to be snide: All of your "It's not nothing . . ." remarks are beautiful melodies to my ears. This from an 'old timer' who uses C++/JavaScript/php - and seriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it (I haven't and won't). Now, I do dabble in C#, but that's because of two factors:
- Microsoft has been very negligent with documentation/examples/etc. in C++, along with not bothering to include support for LINQ, etc.
- Those around who previously are using 'high level' languages (e.g., Visual FoxPro) have enough of their hands full with C#, let alone actually knowing what they're doing by using C++.
Indeed, if I didn't know better, I'd imagine MS is actually making the right decisions for a change. Clearly, you do not.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
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John C wrote:
This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
Well, it's more about bacon these days, but I share your frustration.
What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way. Perhaps Microsoft has fractured the dev market so much that there is simply nothing left to rally around any more.
There is no failure only feedback
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
John C wrote:
jupiter controversy
Oh crap, they have started messing with planets... :doh:
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Sorry if you lack the ability to decipher meaning from the statement, John. It actually has a point and expresses my opinion of the topic. Do you read sentences as a string of words, but don't actually interpret the context of the statement? If you still don't get it: Microsoft can try to force people to do what they want, but in the end the user has the final say. As with Vista, when nobody would fucking use it, they had to bail on it. I can see that happening here with W8, all they are doing is making W8 look less appealing.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I work at a company that is predominantly XP still. I am fighting an uphill battle just to upgrade our servers to server 2008 from 2003 even though we HAVE to do so due to failing and expiring software, such as Great Plains( we have a really old version that is stopped support at end of year). Basically the win8 routine has little to no effect on me currently as I would be surprised to have more than a handful of win7 machines by the end of next year, much less anything higher. Personally my opinion is such: Unless you are a software shop of some sort, if you work for corporate somewhere, the whole thing is almost a moot point as most companies are very slow to upgrade. by the time a lot of companies get around to win8 there will probably be win12 out. If you are a software shop that needs to stay latest and greatest, then the only option is as always with MS... roll with the punches and get out the Google to learn it :-D
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
gavindon wrote:
Unless you are a software shop of some sort, if you work for corporate somewhere, the whole thing is almost a moot point as most companies are very slow to upgrade.
Excellent point! Back in the day everyone here cared about what Microsoft was doing, now, not so much. Perhaps the economy has a lot to do with it. The early .net days were boom times and there was a *lot* of continual buzz, now people don't seem to give a shit, they're just happy to have a job.
There is no failure only feedback
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What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way. Perhaps Microsoft has fractured the dev market so much that there is simply nothing left to rally around any more.
There is no failure only feedback
John C wrote:
What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way
Yep, which is why I rarely post in the Lounge these days. I guess you could have a pretty good discussion on this topic at programmers.stackexchange.com/[^] or some other site.
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Sorry if you lack the ability to decipher meaning from the statement, John. It actually has a point and expresses my opinion of the topic. Do you read sentences as a string of words, but don't actually interpret the context of the statement? If you still don't get it: Microsoft can try to force people to do what they want, but in the end the user has the final say. As with Vista, when nobody would fucking use it, they had to bail on it. I can see that happening here with W8, all they are doing is making W8 look less appealing.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
wizardzz wrote:
If you still don't get it
Much better thank you, I guess you were far too clever for me in your first post. I doubt this is that kind of situation. Microsoft is changing the very core of windows and how it works and it has far reaching implications on us developers and in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them. I read a good blog post about how even the mightiest companies are only about 3 years away from complete irrelevance when they seem to be doing very well and it's happened in the tech sector many times in the past. We'll see but I don't think there's any going back from what they are doing.
There is no failure only feedback
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John C wrote:
What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way
Yep, which is why I rarely post in the Lounge these days. I guess you could have a pretty good discussion on this topic at programmers.stackexchange.com/[^] or some other site.
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wizardzz wrote:
If you still don't get it
Much better thank you, I guess you were far too clever for me in your first post. I doubt this is that kind of situation. Microsoft is changing the very core of windows and how it works and it has far reaching implications on us developers and in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them. I read a good blog post about how even the mightiest companies are only about 3 years away from complete irrelevance when they seem to be doing very well and it's happened in the tech sector many times in the past. We'll see but I don't think there's any going back from what they are doing.
There is no failure only feedback
I got a little carried away there.
John C wrote:
in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them.
I do think that the may end up chasing Google and Apple into a hole they can't get out of. But I still don't think MS is stupid enough to bail on .NET at the risk of making themselves irrelevant, they must keep a backup plan. You can't change all 4 tires while still doing 85mph.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
There isn't much to discuss, as there's pretty much no information. If MS seriously pulls off everything that's rumored, i.e. replaces .NET with some new managed runtime and starts over with another new UI framework, it better be *very* good. It's not unlikely that they are doing something like this - think of all the in-fighting between the Windows division and DevDiv, which the Windows division won. But if they do this, screw up and piss off all the Windows developers, that might be the end of Microsoft as we know it. Personally, I think we might see yet another new UI framework (almost but not quite compatible to WPF/Silverlight the same way those two aren't compatible to each other), as UI frameworks seem to have an average lifespan of around 5 years. I don't believe in the demise of .NET yet. But there's not much point to discuss rumors that are conflicting with each other, so let's wait until we get some information at the Build conference.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
No.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Not really. It does not fit what we are doing and what we will be doing in the next few years. We will not be changing our engineering applications from C++/MFC to something else unless there's a big safe amount of cash involved. BUT... there might be smaller projects that could be done with those newer technologies.
Watched code never compiles.
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Not really. It does not fit what we are doing and what we will be doing in the next few years. We will not be changing our engineering applications from C++/MFC to something else unless there's a big safe amount of cash involved. BUT... there might be smaller projects that could be done with those newer technologies.
Watched code never compiles.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
the what? no, i suppose i don't.
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gavindon wrote:
Unless you are a software shop of some sort, if you work for corporate somewhere, the whole thing is almost a moot point as most companies are very slow to upgrade.
Excellent point! Back in the day everyone here cared about what Microsoft was doing, now, not so much. Perhaps the economy has a lot to do with it. The early .net days were boom times and there was a *lot* of continual buzz, now people don't seem to give a shit, they're just happy to have a job.
There is no failure only feedback
John C wrote:
now people don't seem to give a sh*t, they're just happy to have a job
Pretty much it I think. It's like the VB vs C# ribbing that goes on here on CP. If the boss is paying you to write code in VB, then you write code in VB. If the boss wants to upgrade and do everything with win8 setup, then you by golly learn it and do it, or find another job more suited to your tastes in specific code.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about windows 8. Couldn't care less about WPF/Silverlight. I have never ever done anything with those technologies(other then some silly tries for my personal curiosity). Winforms for winapps and ASP for web based apps. I'm loving the let's say new ASP.NET MVC3 Razor stuff. I'm more then sure that they won't drop support for those two major kind of apps. Especially for ASP.NET. So I'm just not worried(for now at least). Time will tell...
All the best, Dan
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about Silverlight, not so much about Win 8 & Jupiter. I code line-of-business apps in Silverlight on a daily basis and find it superior (faster, more robust, better UIs) to apps built in HTML/JavaScript. My only grip is the lack of advanced (beyond crud) data access. That said I suspect some type of desktop/device “app store” will end up overtaking most app development in 5-10 years. Just look at what Apple/Android did with their app stores. In fact Apple already has a desktop app store. Add virtualization/isolation and HTML can return to its roots, a document format.