Anyone here actually care about Windows 8 and silverlight / wpf / jupiter controversy?
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Sorry if you lack the ability to decipher meaning from the statement, John. It actually has a point and expresses my opinion of the topic. Do you read sentences as a string of words, but don't actually interpret the context of the statement? If you still don't get it: Microsoft can try to force people to do what they want, but in the end the user has the final say. As with Vista, when nobody would fucking use it, they had to bail on it. I can see that happening here with W8, all they are doing is making W8 look less appealing.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
wizardzz wrote:
If you still don't get it
Much better thank you, I guess you were far too clever for me in your first post. I doubt this is that kind of situation. Microsoft is changing the very core of windows and how it works and it has far reaching implications on us developers and in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them. I read a good blog post about how even the mightiest companies are only about 3 years away from complete irrelevance when they seem to be doing very well and it's happened in the tech sector many times in the past. We'll see but I don't think there's any going back from what they are doing.
There is no failure only feedback
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John C wrote:
What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way
Yep, which is why I rarely post in the Lounge these days. I guess you could have a pretty good discussion on this topic at programmers.stackexchange.com/[^] or some other site.
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wizardzz wrote:
If you still don't get it
Much better thank you, I guess you were far too clever for me in your first post. I doubt this is that kind of situation. Microsoft is changing the very core of windows and how it works and it has far reaching implications on us developers and in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them. I read a good blog post about how even the mightiest companies are only about 3 years away from complete irrelevance when they seem to be doing very well and it's happened in the tech sector many times in the past. We'll see but I don't think there's any going back from what they are doing.
There is no failure only feedback
I got a little carried away there.
John C wrote:
in short they simply don't care about us any more, they care far more about Apple and Google and responding to them.
I do think that the may end up chasing Google and Apple into a hole they can't get out of. But I still don't think MS is stupid enough to bail on .NET at the risk of making themselves irrelevant, they must keep a backup plan. You can't change all 4 tires while still doing 85mph.
"I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. " — Hunter S. Thompson My comedy.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
There isn't much to discuss, as there's pretty much no information. If MS seriously pulls off everything that's rumored, i.e. replaces .NET with some new managed runtime and starts over with another new UI framework, it better be *very* good. It's not unlikely that they are doing something like this - think of all the in-fighting between the Windows division and DevDiv, which the Windows division won. But if they do this, screw up and piss off all the Windows developers, that might be the end of Microsoft as we know it. Personally, I think we might see yet another new UI framework (almost but not quite compatible to WPF/Silverlight the same way those two aren't compatible to each other), as UI frameworks seem to have an average lifespan of around 5 years. I don't believe in the demise of .NET yet. But there's not much point to discuss rumors that are conflicting with each other, so let's wait until we get some information at the Build conference.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
No.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Not really. It does not fit what we are doing and what we will be doing in the next few years. We will not be changing our engineering applications from C++/MFC to something else unless there's a big safe amount of cash involved. BUT... there might be smaller projects that could be done with those newer technologies.
Watched code never compiles.
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Not really. It does not fit what we are doing and what we will be doing in the next few years. We will not be changing our engineering applications from C++/MFC to something else unless there's a big safe amount of cash involved. BUT... there might be smaller projects that could be done with those newer technologies.
Watched code never compiles.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
the what? no, i suppose i don't.
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gavindon wrote:
Unless you are a software shop of some sort, if you work for corporate somewhere, the whole thing is almost a moot point as most companies are very slow to upgrade.
Excellent point! Back in the day everyone here cared about what Microsoft was doing, now, not so much. Perhaps the economy has a lot to do with it. The early .net days were boom times and there was a *lot* of continual buzz, now people don't seem to give a shit, they're just happy to have a job.
There is no failure only feedback
John C wrote:
now people don't seem to give a sh*t, they're just happy to have a job
Pretty much it I think. It's like the VB vs C# ribbing that goes on here on CP. If the boss is paying you to write code in VB, then you write code in VB. If the boss wants to upgrade and do everything with win8 setup, then you by golly learn it and do it, or find another job more suited to your tastes in specific code.
Programming is a race between programmers trying to build bigger and better idiot proof programs, and the universe trying to build bigger and better idiots, so far... the universe is winning. Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about windows 8. Couldn't care less about WPF/Silverlight. I have never ever done anything with those technologies(other then some silly tries for my personal curiosity). Winforms for winapps and ASP for web based apps. I'm loving the let's say new ASP.NET MVC3 Razor stuff. I'm more then sure that they won't drop support for those two major kind of apps. Especially for ASP.NET. So I'm just not worried(for now at least). Time will tell...
All the best, Dan
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about Silverlight, not so much about Win 8 & Jupiter. I code line-of-business apps in Silverlight on a daily basis and find it superior (faster, more robust, better UIs) to apps built in HTML/JavaScript. My only grip is the lack of advanced (beyond crud) data access. That said I suspect some type of desktop/device “app store” will end up overtaking most app development in 5-10 years. Just look at what Apple/Android did with their app stores. In fact Apple already has a desktop app store. Add virtualization/isolation and HTML can return to its roots, a document format.
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Can't say there is a lot of info about that on the webbie...
Watched code never compiles.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
When some initial statements were taken beyond their context to conclude that HTML5 would be the only API for win8 there was epic wailing and gnashing of teeth along with the occasional voice of sanity ignored in the wilderness; but eventually the ranting and raving burned itself out and people are waiting for more details before starting again. Expect it to go back into overdrive next week with the build conference releasing details.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Personally for what we do at work it matters not at all. Most of our desktops are on XP. I personally don't use WPF for our in house apps, it doesn't seem worth deployment hassle, instead Win Forms works if I need to write a UI app. Web apps are not much use here, and Silverlight doesn't factor in at all. So it seems like a lot the "storm" is much ado about nothing from my POV. We haven't even migrated to Weven yet, much less even consider W8.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I care about Silverlight, not so much about Win 8 & Jupiter. I code line-of-business apps in Silverlight on a daily basis and find it superior (faster, more robust, better UIs) to apps built in HTML/JavaScript. My only grip is the lack of advanced (beyond crud) data access. That said I suspect some type of desktop/device “app store” will end up overtaking most app development in 5-10 years. Just look at what Apple/Android did with their app stores. In fact Apple already has a desktop app store. Add virtualization/isolation and HTML can return to its roots, a document format.
Code Monkey-Man wrote:
to apps built in HTML/JavaScript.
The common toothpick is superior to this. You're setting the bar pretty low there... :rolleyes:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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When some initial statements were taken beyond their context to conclude that HTML5 would be the only API for win8 there was epic wailing and gnashing of teeth along with the occasional voice of sanity ignored in the wilderness; but eventually the ranting and raving burned itself out and people are waiting for more details before starting again. Expect it to go back into overdrive next week with the build conference releasing details.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Not attempting to be snide: All of your "It's not nothing . . ." remarks are beautiful melodies to my ears. This from an 'old timer' who uses C++/JavaScript/php - and seriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it (I haven't and won't). Now, I do dabble in C#, but that's because of two factors:
- Microsoft has been very negligent with documentation/examples/etc. in C++, along with not bothering to include support for LINQ, etc.
- Those around who previously are using 'high level' languages (e.g., Visual FoxPro) have enough of their hands full with C#, let alone actually knowing what they're doing by using C++.
Indeed, if I didn't know better, I'd imagine MS is actually making the right decisions for a change. Clearly, you do not.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
eriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it
Amen brother! I do the same, if the silverlight logo is there, I just move right along.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I care. But then you knew that.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Luke cared too, and look where it got him...turned out Leia was his sister all this time. Think of how screwed up he must felt. Think he had any dreams of delivering the bacon after that?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
An MS talking head said (paraphrasing from memory) that "HTML5 will be the language for developing win8 style apps". Despite the bloviator not being a dev and not talking to an audience of devs, many people assumed that it meant that C++/.net/etc would only be usable for legacy style applications. MS didn't help by refusing to officially comment; although MS employees gradually released sanity via back channels over a few days after it became clear MS wasn't going to officially tell chicken little he was wrong.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8?
I wouldn't worry about that. All MS Office client applications are pure Win32 with native C++.