Anyone here actually care about Windows 8 and silverlight / wpf / jupiter controversy?
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about windows 8. Couldn't care less about WPF/Silverlight. I have never ever done anything with those technologies(other then some silly tries for my personal curiosity). Winforms for winapps and ASP for web based apps. I'm loving the let's say new ASP.NET MVC3 Razor stuff. I'm more then sure that they won't drop support for those two major kind of apps. Especially for ASP.NET. So I'm just not worried(for now at least). Time will tell...
All the best, Dan
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
I care about Silverlight, not so much about Win 8 & Jupiter. I code line-of-business apps in Silverlight on a daily basis and find it superior (faster, more robust, better UIs) to apps built in HTML/JavaScript. My only grip is the lack of advanced (beyond crud) data access. That said I suspect some type of desktop/device “app store” will end up overtaking most app development in 5-10 years. Just look at what Apple/Android did with their app stores. In fact Apple already has a desktop app store. Add virtualization/isolation and HTML can return to its roots, a document format.
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Can't say there is a lot of info about that on the webbie...
Watched code never compiles.
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
When some initial statements were taken beyond their context to conclude that HTML5 would be the only API for win8 there was epic wailing and gnashing of teeth along with the occasional voice of sanity ignored in the wilderness; but eventually the ranting and raving burned itself out and people are waiting for more details before starting again. Expect it to go back into overdrive next week with the build conference releasing details.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Personally for what we do at work it matters not at all. Most of our desktops are on XP. I personally don't use WPF for our in house apps, it doesn't seem worth deployment hassle, instead Win Forms works if I need to write a UI app. Web apps are not much use here, and Silverlight doesn't factor in at all. So it seems like a lot the "storm" is much ado about nothing from my POV. We haven't even migrated to Weven yet, much less even consider W8.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I care about Silverlight, not so much about Win 8 & Jupiter. I code line-of-business apps in Silverlight on a daily basis and find it superior (faster, more robust, better UIs) to apps built in HTML/JavaScript. My only grip is the lack of advanced (beyond crud) data access. That said I suspect some type of desktop/device “app store” will end up overtaking most app development in 5-10 years. Just look at what Apple/Android did with their app stores. In fact Apple already has a desktop app store. Add virtualization/isolation and HTML can return to its roots, a document format.
Code Monkey-Man wrote:
to apps built in HTML/JavaScript.
The common toothpick is superior to this. You're setting the bar pretty low there... :rolleyes:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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When some initial statements were taken beyond their context to conclude that HTML5 would be the only API for win8 there was epic wailing and gnashing of teeth along with the occasional voice of sanity ignored in the wilderness; but eventually the ranting and raving burned itself out and people are waiting for more details before starting again. Expect it to go back into overdrive next week with the build conference releasing details.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Not attempting to be snide: All of your "It's not nothing . . ." remarks are beautiful melodies to my ears. This from an 'old timer' who uses C++/JavaScript/php - and seriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it (I haven't and won't). Now, I do dabble in C#, but that's because of two factors:
- Microsoft has been very negligent with documentation/examples/etc. in C++, along with not bothering to include support for LINQ, etc.
- Those around who previously are using 'high level' languages (e.g., Visual FoxPro) have enough of their hands full with C#, let alone actually knowing what they're doing by using C++.
Indeed, if I didn't know better, I'd imagine MS is actually making the right decisions for a change. Clearly, you do not.
"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits." - Albert Einstein
"As far as we know, our computer has never had an undetected error." - Weisert
"If you are searching for perfection in others, then you seek disappointment. If you are seek perfection in yourself, then you will find failure." - Balboos HaGadol Mar 2010
W∴ Balboos wrote:
eriously resents when a website say I must download Silverlight to view it
Amen brother! I do the same, if the silverlight logo is there, I just move right along.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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I care. But then you knew that.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
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Luke cared too, and look where it got him...turned out Leia was his sister all this time. Think of how screwed up he must felt. Think he had any dreams of delivering the bacon after that?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
An MS talking head said (paraphrasing from memory) that "HTML5 will be the language for developing win8 style apps". Despite the bloviator not being a dev and not talking to an audience of devs, many people assumed that it meant that C++/.net/etc would only be usable for legacy style applications. MS didn't help by refusing to officially comment; although MS employees gradually released sanity via back channels over a few days after it became clear MS wasn't going to officially tell chicken little he was wrong.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8? If not, then what the hell is the big deal? Or is this just more internot/idiot-o-sphere hype?
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8?
I wouldn't worry about that. All MS Office client applications are pure Win32 with native C++.
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I haven't heard anything about it; my friends at Microsoft are all under NDAs. So I went and looked at the rampant speculation and.... Meh. I doubt very much that MS will abandon the Forms framework: if almost every existing Windows application becomes non-functional, the company will not survive the blow-back. As long as Windows 8 supports the Forms framework, we can continue to write Forms based applications. It may be that VS 2010 will be the last version of Visual Studio to support Forms, and that future Forms development will be phased out in the same way that Microsoft phased out COM development, but my version of VB6 still works just dandy for maintaining legacy apps. Unless I am missing something, I don't see any reason to worry.
Gregory.Gadow wrote:
Microsoft phased out COM development
Microsoft may not talk it up much, but check out the foundations of Windows - COM is alive and well there, and nothing, that I'm aware of, is going to replace that. Hide it, perhaps.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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What happened to this place? This kind of thing was discussed to death back in the day and analyzed every which way. Perhaps Microsoft has fractured the dev market so much that there is simply nothing left to rally around any more.
There is no failure only feedback
Maybe what's happened is that the endurance of XP has meant that Windows churn, in terms of new stuff that you *HAD* to install, has slowed down? Vista uptake was pretty slow (non-existent in some places like mine), W7 is slow as well. Maybe that's meant that a whole lot of optional technologies, like WPF, WCF, Silverlight, etc have arisen, but not really had a compelling enough reason for *everyone* to jump on board. In the meantime you've got web apps with their half assed, sort-of-but-not-really-duct-tape-and-bubblegum frameworks that allow you to cobble together "solutions" of sorts. You've got stuff with as many *cons* as pros, and maybe people just lose interest, or enthusiasm.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Jim Crafton wrote:
Is there some claim out there that existing Win32 apps aren't going to run on W8?
I wouldn't worry about that. All MS Office client applications are pure Win32 with native C++.
That's what I thought. Hence I'm not sure what all the fuss is. Unless those that put all their eggs in Redmond's language/framework-du-jour basket are now pissed that they've gotten burned (again).
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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An MS talking head said (paraphrasing from memory) that "HTML5 will be the language for developing win8 style apps". Despite the bloviator not being a dev and not talking to an audience of devs, many people assumed that it meant that C++/.net/etc would only be usable for legacy style applications. MS didn't help by refusing to officially comment; although MS employees gradually released sanity via back channels over a few days after it became clear MS wasn't going to officially tell chicken little he was wrong.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Huh?! Does no one pay any attention to what goes on (I'm not talking about you of course). "HTML5 will be the language for developing win8 style apps" Clearly that's simply an absurd statement. Apple tried that with the iPhone when it was first released and *everyone* thought it was completely stupid from day one. And within days (weeks?) of it's release people were reverse engineering the ObjC frameworks so they could actually write real programs for it, as opposed to the HTML/javascript horsehit.
Dan Neely wrote:
many people assumed that it meant that C++/.net/etc would only be usable for legacy style applications.
Also absurd. How people would draw that conclusion from the previous statement is beyond me. It's like claiming that 2+2 = 5, therefore proving that 3/2 is an imaginary number. WTF? :wtf:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Sounds somewhat interesting but there's so much conjecture, rumor and blather in that article that it's hard to know what to make of it.
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
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Code Monkey-Man wrote:
to apps built in HTML/JavaScript.
The common toothpick is superior to this. You're setting the bar pretty low there... :rolleyes:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
:-D
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I visited here periodically all summer looking to see any discussion and barely a word, now with less than a week I see a lot of jokes and not much else. I'm getting a strong "meh" vibe here whenever it comes up. I can only attribute this to a lot of people who work in cubicles and don't have to bet their future of their own business on the outcome of this or perhaps many of you have already moved off of windows development and only come here out of habit or are planning on retiring soon or...? I mean if not *here* then *where*? This is traditionally a windows centric development site.
There is no failure only feedback
Why I should give a damn? No, really, why? Is this going to change something? I’m experienced in C, C++, Java, Delphi, C#, Transact SQL and PL SQL. Regarding my experience learning a new technology in an acceptable level takes me one-two months top. And that includes technologies as COM. So no, I could care less about the whole shit.
There is only one Ashley Judd and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
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Huh?! Does no one pay any attention to what goes on (I'm not talking about you of course). "HTML5 will be the language for developing win8 style apps" Clearly that's simply an absurd statement. Apple tried that with the iPhone when it was first released and *everyone* thought it was completely stupid from day one. And within days (weeks?) of it's release people were reverse engineering the ObjC frameworks so they could actually write real programs for it, as opposed to the HTML/javascript horsehit.
Dan Neely wrote:
many people assumed that it meant that C++/.net/etc would only be usable for legacy style applications.
Also absurd. How people would draw that conclusion from the previous statement is beyond me. It's like claiming that 2+2 = 5, therefore proving that 3/2 is an imaginary number. WTF? :wtf:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow
Jim Crafton wrote:
How people would draw that conclusion from the previous statement is beyond me.
Paranoia, fueled by MS's refusal to issue even a nominal clarification ("Talking head misspoke, HTML5 is one language that will be used. For more details wait until Build.") that would've squashed it. A year ago MS threw out 100% of legacy apps with WP7. MS is also the company who thought WinME and Vista were good platforms when in launched them, so the OS div is known to be capable of major blunders.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Jim Crafton wrote:
How people would draw that conclusion from the previous statement is beyond me.
Paranoia, fueled by MS's refusal to issue even a nominal clarification ("Talking head misspoke, HTML5 is one language that will be used. For more details wait until Build.") that would've squashed it. A year ago MS threw out 100% of legacy apps with WP7. MS is also the company who thought WinME and Vista were good platforms when in launched them, so the OS div is known to be capable of major blunders.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Well in this case I don't blame MS. There should be some minimal expectation that people who claim to be developers *think* just a little. Obviously that's not the case here :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Personal 3D projects Just Say No to Web 2 Point Blow