First Experiences With "The Lounge"
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It can be a bit of a shock to the system but as others have said, try (even though that may be difficult) not to take it personally.
diverbw wrote:
he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock.
This is another example of your failing to read things correctly :), although in your annoyance at the replies you received it is understandable. The message you are referring to called Crystal Reports a crock. If you are able to go back and read it again in a slightly calmer frame of mind you will see this.
Henry Minute Do not read medical books! You could die of a misprint. - Mark Twain Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is.
Wash your keyboard 'Enry! You just typed that name.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Chris Maunder wrote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions
Perhaps some warning or instruction could be posted in large colourful letters at the top of the page, would that help?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] Trolls[^]
That's so brilliant I'm surpised I didn't already think of that. In all seriousness, you know it's there and so you wouldn't miss it. However, I learned long ago that what's obvious for one is not for another. Asking the person who missed the bleeding obvious is a great way to get a hitherto unrecognised perspective on the problem. (or should it be "an hitherto"? I never get that right)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Naerling wrote:
I just happened to know the answer since I was doing the same thing just today. I don't think my post encouraged anyone
Lots of us in the Lounge will just happen to know the answer to questions posted in the Lounge. If we all acted on that impulse to answer those questions, that might encourage those posters and others to post more programming questions in the Lounge.
Naerling wrote:
I am trying to read files from disk, how can I accomplish this? The requirements say I cannot use System.IO Namespace
Use a third-party assembler library. :) *waits for 1-vote*
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
*waits for 1-vote*
*1-voted* Sorry, but now you were just begging for it! :)
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
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Evidently, the OP needs to learn how to read (just kidding OP, just kidding!). :laugh: (emoticon added as a visual in case the OP cannot read) ... (just kidding!)
Somebody in an online forum wrote:
INTJs never really joke. They make a point. The joke is just a gift wrapper.
I'll refrain from 1-voting this one... Since it's actually pretty funny :laugh:
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Perhaps the -first- time someone ever posts to the Lounge, display a popup warning dialog informing people programming questions are poorly received in the Lounge, will result in flames/burns/abject misery/emotion scaring/etc.., and point out the existence of the umpteen other forums... I suggest large a font. :) -- Ian
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Can't moderators just move the post to the proper forum with a click or two, and save the drama?
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
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Can't moderators just move the post to the proper forum with a click or two, and save the drama?
Sure - if we get to it in time. However, that's not always the case
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
You didn't read the hidden rule, the Lounge is a mobocracy, and who as part of that mob can break the first rule with abandon. :) Oh, and if you are part of the accepted mob, you can post programming questions in the lounge. :laugh: :laugh: --edit-- Oh yeah. by the way, the one who caused you offense is a big mouthed jerk. :)
============================== Nothing to say.
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That's so brilliant I'm surpised I didn't already think of that. In all seriousness, you know it's there and so you wouldn't miss it. However, I learned long ago that what's obvious for one is not for another. Asking the person who missed the bleeding obvious is a great way to get a hitherto unrecognised perspective on the problem. (or should it be "an hitherto"? I never get that right)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Sure - if we get to it in time. However, that's not always the case
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I suspect you don't have enough moderators. So many posts. So few hands.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
That was my downvote
I guess I will now have to downtrack your every move and be ready to vote that 1! :-\ I simply didn't think the OP deserved the reactions he got and I just happened to know the answer since I was doing the same thing just today. I don't think my post encouraged anyone. On a side note, I am trying to read files from disk, how can I accomplish this? The requirements say I cannot use System.IO Namespace (yes, our customers are very specific) ;P
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Perhaps the -first- time someone ever posts to the Lounge, display a popup warning dialog informing people programming questions are poorly received in the Lounge, will result in flames/burns/abject misery/emotion scaring/etc.., and point out the existence of the umpteen other forums... I suggest large a font. :) -- Ian
This is what I was going to suggest. If you try to start a thread in the Lounge and you have under, I don't know, 20 posts in the Lounge previously, there should be a big prominent warning in the thread start form with the board rules and warning you that you will get flamed if you post something that violates them. This could be generalised to all the forums if you haven't posted there before.
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
Honestly if you've come to CP for years you should have known what the different boards are for. There is a fairly prominent 'don't post programming questions' in the board subtitle – if you can't be bothered to read that, why should responders bother to hold in their snark? I too had come to CP for years before venturing in here, but I haven't been insulted* or flamed, because I read the description and saw how the regulars acted first. If a genuine newbie does it then we should be a bit nicer, though they're still going to collect a stack of 1-votes because, really, before starting a thread on any Internet forum you should read the board description. The Lounge isn't really a 'professional' forum. I guess it is pretty much unique on CP in that aspect (perhaps the Soapbox and Back Room would also be included) and it would be nice if there was some way of making that more obvious. *: responses to this post are predictable and don't count :suss:
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
You can't. Anyone wanting to post in a new forum should read it first, get a feel for how things are done, and there is a nice rules 'Posting rules' sticky at the top (change of formatting on that possible?). What you really need to avoid is a load of posters being dicks and taking the piss, it only needs one person to point out the error of their ways, and this can be done politely with a little piss taking. A load more piling in as well isn't ever helpful. POH has done a good job of telling everyone off for mocking Q&A posters until that has pretty much died out.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
Stop whining.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Quote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
With the large volume of data that this site has through questions in other forums, isn't it possible to put together some natural language processing to try to detect a programming question? You already have a huge set of training data for the model. The post could be analyzed, and if it is reasonably sure that the post is a programming question, you could display a warning that it looks like they may be breaking the rules. Then show examples of the abuse responses they are likely to get if they continue, or even analyze it further and try to suggest the relevant forum?
"It's like the sixties, but with less hope."
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Another GREAT example of the unprofessionalism, elitism, and cronyism I am referring to in this post.
What gave you the idea that people come to the lounge to be professionals? If you're not in a programming forum or in Q/A, you should expect typical internet behavior.
diverbw wrote:
Another GREAT example of the ..., elitism, and cronyism
You sound like a liberal.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Personally I found his post pretty enlightening. Step back and take a look from an outsider's perspective. A mistake has been made, yes, but hands up who is perfect. There are better ways to deal with this. :|
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I can't raise my hand while I'm reloading...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
