First Experiences With "The Lounge"
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
You didn't read the hidden rule, the Lounge is a mobocracy, and who as part of that mob can break the first rule with abandon. :) Oh, and if you are part of the accepted mob, you can post programming questions in the lounge. :laugh: :laugh: --edit-- Oh yeah. by the way, the one who caused you offense is a big mouthed jerk. :)
============================== Nothing to say.
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That's so brilliant I'm surpised I didn't already think of that. In all seriousness, you know it's there and so you wouldn't miss it. However, I learned long ago that what's obvious for one is not for another. Asking the person who missed the bleeding obvious is a great way to get a hitherto unrecognised perspective on the problem. (or should it be "an hitherto"? I never get that right)
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Sure - if we get to it in time. However, that's not always the case
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I suspect you don't have enough moderators. So many posts. So few hands.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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AspDotNetDev wrote:
That was my downvote
I guess I will now have to downtrack your every move and be ready to vote that 1! :-\ I simply didn't think the OP deserved the reactions he got and I just happened to know the answer since I was doing the same thing just today. I don't think my post encouraged anyone. On a side note, I am trying to read files from disk, how can I accomplish this? The requirements say I cannot use System.IO Namespace (yes, our customers are very specific) ;P
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Perhaps the -first- time someone ever posts to the Lounge, display a popup warning dialog informing people programming questions are poorly received in the Lounge, will result in flames/burns/abject misery/emotion scaring/etc.., and point out the existence of the umpteen other forums... I suggest large a font. :) -- Ian
This is what I was going to suggest. If you try to start a thread in the Lounge and you have under, I don't know, 20 posts in the Lounge previously, there should be a big prominent warning in the thread start form with the board rules and warning you that you will get flamed if you post something that violates them. This could be generalised to all the forums if you haven't posted there before.
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
Honestly if you've come to CP for years you should have known what the different boards are for. There is a fairly prominent 'don't post programming questions' in the board subtitle – if you can't be bothered to read that, why should responders bother to hold in their snark? I too had come to CP for years before venturing in here, but I haven't been insulted* or flamed, because I read the description and saw how the regulars acted first. If a genuine newbie does it then we should be a bit nicer, though they're still going to collect a stack of 1-votes because, really, before starting a thread on any Internet forum you should read the board description. The Lounge isn't really a 'professional' forum. I guess it is pretty much unique on CP in that aspect (perhaps the Soapbox and Back Room would also be included) and it would be nice if there was some way of making that more obvious. *: responses to this post are predictable and don't count :suss:
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Chris Maunder wrote:
So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
You can't. Anyone wanting to post in a new forum should read it first, get a feel for how things are done, and there is a nice rules 'Posting rules' sticky at the top (change of formatting on that possible?). What you really need to avoid is a load of posters being dicks and taking the piss, it only needs one person to point out the error of their ways, and this can be done politely with a little piss taking. A load more piling in as well isn't ever helpful. POH has done a good job of telling everyone off for mocking Q&A posters until that has pretty much died out.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
Stop whining.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
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You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
I have come to www.codeproject.com for years and find it is a very valuable resource for my work. But until today, I have never that I recall posted anything to "The Lounge". Seeing "The Lounge" and thinking it was a place that may be monitored by a large group of _professional_ software developers, I asked a question. Unfortunately, I did NOT take the time to go read all of the rules associated with The Lounge. In retrospect, that was a mistake. Within seconds of posting my question, I was shocked to receive numerous responses. And all but one were condescending, elitist, and showed a complete lack of any sort of professional conduct or courtesy. In particular, one responder was completely over the top in his unprofessional and attacking response where he accused me of not being able to read, and called my software architecture, of which he knows NOTHING, a crock. Others told me to go read the rules, and even pointed out the rules that I broke. Turns out I DID break rule # 2, but all of these other "professionals" broke rule #1, which states that those commenting in The Lounge should be "respectful". What the unnamed "mugger" in The Lounge and the others SHOULD have done is to simply say "Your question is not appropriate according to the rules of this forum (provide link to rule). You should re-post your question in one of the programming forums where such questions are welcomed.". If that is too much to type, and you see this a lot, then I suggest you just save that text into a text file somewhere so you can cut and paste in a standard, PROFESSIONAL response when people like myself make a mistake. As a software professional that has earned a very good living in this field for over 35 years and frankly has very little time to contribute my experience to forums like this due to the backlog of new development projects in my queue, I do feel some sense of responsibility of contributing back to the software development community as a whole. So I will simply close by saying "Cool your jets folks!"
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Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Quote:
How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
With the large volume of data that this site has through questions in other forums, isn't it possible to put together some natural language processing to try to detect a programming question? You already have a huge set of training data for the model. The post could be analyzed, and if it is reasonably sure that the post is a programming question, you could display a warning that it looks like they may be breaking the rules. Then show examples of the abuse responses they are likely to get if they continue, or even analyze it further and try to suggest the relevant forum?
"It's like the sixties, but with less hope."
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Another GREAT example of the unprofessionalism, elitism, and cronyism I am referring to in this post.
What gave you the idea that people come to the lounge to be professionals? If you're not in a programming forum or in Q/A, you should expect typical internet behavior.
diverbw wrote:
Another GREAT example of the ..., elitism, and cronyism
You sound like a liberal.
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
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"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Personally I found his post pretty enlightening. Step back and take a look from an outsider's perspective. A mistake has been made, yes, but hands up who is perfect. There are better ways to deal with this. :|
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
I can't raise my hand while I'm reloading...
".45 ACP - because shooting twice is just silly" - JSOP, 2010
-----
You can never have too much ammo - unless you're swimming, or on fire. - JSOP, 2010
-----
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997 -
Welcome to the Lounge. Here are your thick rubber gloves, here's your helmet. It can get messy. In all seriousness you've raised excellent points though much of the angst is, I think, due to the nature of the Lounge. We know each other so well and are so comfortable with each other that random (and even specific) slap downs are the norm and not in anyway to be considered personal insults. Which doesn't help, of course, if you're new to the Lounge. The warnings are there in bright red but mistakes happen. The problem, as others have pointed out, is that it has happened enough in the lifespan of the Lounge that automatic reflexes kick in. I hope that the civil replies that were made give you hope that there is a balance here and that no harm or disrespect was intended. So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
Hi Chris, I wanted to send you a quick note to say how much I appreciate this response. I have been thinking about it ever since I read it last night, but my work schedule is such that I've not had the time yet to give a thoughtful reply. I will try to do so sometime over the weekend. The fact that you have asked a serious question deserves a serious reply. In the meantime I am quite amused to note how the attacks, condemnation, and a general "blame the victim" attitude continues. It's really quite funny to me! Why just a few minutes ago I even got classified into a political ideology! LOL Contrary to what the opinion of me appears to be in the replies, I have a really eclectic sense of humor myself, as do most software types like all of us here. When stuck at an airport because flights have been cancelled do to severe weather right outside the window, I even move close to the ticket agent because I enjoy the entertainment of watching people attacking him/her and in the process generally making fools out of themselves. I'm NOT saying that is happening here, but I do find it all humorous. I have, however, really appreciated the serious responses, few that there have been, from people that seem to understand what I am talking about. And I have even picked up some useful information on my original question about Crystal Reports. I've managed to avoid CR for decades now, and hope to present management with enough info to continue to do so, so I was able to report on today's scrum call that most responses have been "don't use it!". Will post again soon. Brad
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I suspect you don't have enough moderators. So many posts. So few hands.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
Probably very true. A new one hatched last night.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Chris Maunder wrote:
So, let me ask you a favour: How can we make it easier for new posters in the Lounge to avoid posting programming questions and instead keep the conversation flowing?
You can't. Anyone wanting to post in a new forum should read it first, get a feel for how things are done, and there is a nice rules 'Posting rules' sticky at the top (change of formatting on that possible?). What you really need to avoid is a load of posters being dicks and taking the piss, it only needs one person to point out the error of their ways, and this can be done politely with a little piss taking. A load more piling in as well isn't ever helpful. POH has done a good job of telling everyone off for mocking Q&A posters until that has pretty much died out.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
There is a balance, and the operate word of "should" is so fraught with danger. A little empathy is what's needed though. Is there an API for it?
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
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Probably very true. A new one hatched last night.
cheers, Chris Maunder The Code Project | Co-founder Microsoft C++ MVP
A new hand hatched last night? Cool. I hope you youtubed it.
Forgive your enemies - it messes with their heads
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
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Actually our client just called. P/Invoke and WinAPI are also forbidden. They want us to use a SQL query in Oracle and COBOL.NET in C# on a Linux computer... To open that file that is ;p
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
} -
Thanks! :D Now will you help me in my quests to downvote all of AspDotNetDevs posts? :D (not really of course)
It's an OO world.
public class Naerling : Lazy<Person>{
public void DoWork(){ throw new NotImplementedException(); }
}Don't worry about AspDotNetDev; he has already been doomed to wander the desert for forty years.
