Non-developer to developer insults
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Repeatedly asking the same question sounds prototypically childish. I hope you did point this out :laugh:
"I know you believe you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize what you heard is not what I meant."
Paxman managed it 14 times!
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
Do you see the guy regularly? IF so, have some crayons handy and when he asks such a stupid question offer to explain it with a diagram. Get out the crayons and tell him you'll use a medium he's more comfortable with.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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Paxman managed it 14 times!
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
As long as you are honest and know WHY he said that, you are doing OK. If you are answering a series of questions and they say that when you don't know why...THAT's a problem. I have learned to be a little careful around sales guys. Sales guys get hammered on from all sides. They can't take out their frustrations on the clients, they can't take it out on their families...so you may just be the easiest target. Remember, sales guys sometimes have access to freebies, concert tickets, etc. It does not hurt to kiss up a little bit now and then. :cool:
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
I have found that condescending retorts are usually the last resort of simple minds. Keep in mind that speaking down to a "developer" is considered cool but if you fight back against one of the "cool kids" you will be seen as not a team player for doing the exact same thing. I would say just show him your pay stub and smile but with outsourcing the way it is being a dev. no longer carries the cash prestige either.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
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As long as you are honest and know WHY he said that, you are doing OK. If you are answering a series of questions and they say that when you don't know why...THAT's a problem. I have learned to be a little careful around sales guys. Sales guys get hammered on from all sides. They can't take out their frustrations on the clients, they can't take it out on their families...so you may just be the easiest target. Remember, sales guys sometimes have access to freebies, concert tickets, etc. It does not hurt to kiss up a little bit now and then. :cool:
No good stuff from this one, he's pretty useless :rolleyes:
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
dimensionJumper wrote:
The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child"
That's when you reply: "I know your are, but what am I?"
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I have found that condescending retorts are usually the last resort of simple minds. Keep in mind that speaking down to a "developer" is considered cool but if you fight back against one of the "cool kids" you will be seen as not a team player for doing the exact same thing. I would say just show him your pay stub and smile but with outsourcing the way it is being a dev. no longer carries the cash prestige either.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. I also do Android Programming as I find it a refreshing break from the MS. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
I would say just show him your pay stub and smile
Unfortunately, most of the places I have worked the sales staff focus on large installations in corporate environments, they easily pull in 2 - 2.5 times what the top-level developers made. They also received commission on both the initial sale, and the maintenance renewals each year. That sort of motivation from them would cause them to ask for things to be done with the software that were irrational, impossible, and ludicrous.
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
I believe smiling and taking it as a compliment is the best way of say "F#£& you" without actually saying the words in a situation like that. If they get annoyed by that, then that's a bonus.
Pete
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
Thank you. Keeping my child-like view allows me to develop innovative solutions without the preconceived opinions of adults such as yourself.
No comment
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
dimensionJumper wrote:
"sometimes it's like talking to a child",
Being the father of a 3.5 year old, I get asked "What's that?" a lot, sometimes multiple occurances for the same item. Oddly enough, using smaller words that they can understand gets the job done. ...and he said talking to developers is like talking to a child?? Weird, 'cause the way I see it, it's the other way around.
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Dave Kreskowiak -
The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
It's simple. Just inform the hair-gel-and-Blackberry douche-bag that he's now at the bottom of your support response list until you get an apology. Oh, and be sure and let him know the proper shade of lipstick he's to wear when he kisses your ass.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
No good stuff from this one, he's pretty useless :rolleyes:
Yeah, most are. Once in a while though, your efforts will be rewarded. I have picked up all kinds of company graft from salesmen over the years, just by helping them out once in a while. LOL. That reminds me. My boss was trying to scam tickets for a concert from a salesman. The salesman was not cooperating, so he offered to show the salesman "how to get his PC out of screen saver mode". He...did not get the tickets. ;)
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
As someone pointed out there is a communication gap between you and the sales guy. Fix it, even if it means sitting him down with an interpreter (sales manager) and working through the issue. While you may think sales are a PITA they are the ones on the front line SELLING your work to the customer, if he does not understand your product what chance does the customer have. Having been a (lousy) salesman I can tell you it ain't easy and uppity developers (which I have now been for 20+ year) can really piss you off. Talk to the guy, make sure he understands you, otherwise one of you needs to leave as neither of your are doing your job!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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As someone pointed out there is a communication gap between you and the sales guy. Fix it, even if it means sitting him down with an interpreter (sales manager) and working through the issue. While you may think sales are a PITA they are the ones on the front line SELLING your work to the customer, if he does not understand your product what chance does the customer have. Having been a (lousy) salesman I can tell you it ain't easy and uppity developers (which I have now been for 20+ year) can really piss you off. Talk to the guy, make sure he understands you, otherwise one of you needs to leave as neither of your are doing your job!
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I've tried the reasonable approach. I've been as patient as I would be with a three year-old child, explaining in single syllable words why what they were asking for wasn't reasonable. This doesn't work, because the sales mind-set is that anything less than a full-bore, balls-to-the-wall aggressive response on your part is simple acquiescence. They don't understand, and moreover they don't want to understand. They don't want techno-babble, they want whatever sweet nothing buzzword the customer's been whispering in their ear in bed at night.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I've tried the reasonable approach. I've been as patient as I would be with a three year-old child, explaining in single syllable words why what they were asking for wasn't reasonable. This doesn't work, because the sales mind-set is that anything less than a full-bore, balls-to-the-wall aggressive response on your part is simple acquiescence. They don't understand, and moreover they don't want to understand. They don't want techno-babble, they want whatever sweet nothing buzzword the customer's been whispering in their ear in bed at night.
Software Zen:
delete this;As it turns out the spoken language sometimes varies a bit from the written one; ask him to formulate his question in writing, preferably not one big story but a number of (numbered) points which you can answer. No doubt the answers you have been giving him are correct but no where near his "comfort zone". Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you. Discussion is never bad(but it can get utterly tiresome) Regards, AT
Cogito ergo sum
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As it turns out the spoken language sometimes varies a bit from the written one; ask him to formulate his question in writing, preferably not one big story but a number of (numbered) points which you can answer. No doubt the answers you have been giving him are correct but no where near his "comfort zone". Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you. Discussion is never bad(but it can get utterly tiresome) Regards, AT
Cogito ergo sum
You've got to be kidding. In my experience, the only time a salesperson is willing to write is when they're endorsing their commission checks.
Addy Tas wrote:
Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you.
That's our current mechanism. Our organization is big enough that we have 'sales support' personnel who mediate between engineering and the front-line sales people. The only time this doesn't work is when the sales person tries to go directly to engineering with their requests ("it can't be more than a one or two line change, really").
Software Zen:
delete this; -
You've got to be kidding. In my experience, the only time a salesperson is willing to write is when they're endorsing their commission checks.
Addy Tas wrote:
Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you.
That's our current mechanism. Our organization is big enough that we have 'sales support' personnel who mediate between engineering and the front-line sales people. The only time this doesn't work is when the sales person tries to go directly to engineering with their requests ("it can't be more than a one or two line change, really").
Software Zen:
delete this;mmm, you have those "paper is a crime" (read: If i put it in writing you can show others how stupid i am) persons running around.... hard to work with.
Gary Wheeler wrote:
("it can't be more than a one or two line change, really").
Now that sounds familiar! I have (on multiple accounts) seen other / worse side of that notion. You're asked to create a planning; with the available resources it would take approx 2 months but as it needs to be ready a month ealier, it is sold to the customer to be ready one month before it can be ready.... Wonder why these projects always run late.... Try to get a little zen and let that one guy not ruine your day, week etc.
Cogito ergo sum
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
Four points: 1: you have asked me this question five times (assuming he comes back so you can deliver this) and failed to understand the concept. The definition of crazy is to do something over and over and expect different results. 2: You may consider talking to me like talking to a child but maybe the problem is that explaining something to you that others have no problem with is like explaining something to a moron. 3: Given your inability to understand what others have no problem with and the inability of myself to get you to understand, why don’t you try reading the fine manual. 4: Insulting someone you are dependent on, like biting the hand that feeds you, is a quick way to get yourself cut off. Leave until you can correct your attitude and demonstrate a contrite and humble mind-set. An arrogant mind is a closed mind, incapable of considering itself missing core concepts from which to build understanding.
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The sales guy selling our software product just said to me, "sometimes it's like talking to a child", because I gave him the same answer to a question he's asked me at least 4 times regarding what we should do logically with some data; at nearly 30 years old I'm pretty bloody offended. Is it being stubborn not giving him the wrong answer just to appease him? Anyone else had to put up with abuse from non-developers because they just didn't grasp what to you was pretty damn obvious?
I've quit jobs over this. If you want me to lie to you, you should have made that clear when you hired me. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, no matter how much you bully me.
When posting here, I do not represent anybody but myself.