Non-developer to developer insults

[Peter Mulholland]

I believe smiling and taking it as a compliment is the best way of say "F#£& you" without actually saying the words in a situation like that. If they get annoyed by that, then that's a bonus.

Pete

[Not Active]

Thank you. Keeping my child-like view allows me to develop innovative solutions without the preconceived opinions of adults such as yourself.

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No comment

[Dave Kreskowiak]

dimensionJumper wrote:

"sometimes it's like talking to a child",

Being the father of a 3.5 year old, I get asked "What's that?" a lot, sometimes multiple occurances for the same item. Oddly enough, using smaller words that they can understand gets the job done. ...and he said talking to developers is like talking to a child?? Weird, 'cause the way I see it, it's the other way around.

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[Gary Wheeler]

It's simple. Just inform the hair-gel-and-Blackberry douche-bag that he's now at the bottom of your support response list until you get an apology. Oh, and be sure and let him know the proper shade of lipstick he's to wear when he kisses your ass.

Software Zen: delete this;

[Roy from Detroit]

Yeah, most are. Once in a while though, your efforts will be rewarded. I have picked up all kinds of company graft from salesmen over the years, just by helping them out once in a while. LOL. That reminds me. My boss was trying to scam tickets for a concert from a salesman. The salesman was not cooperating, so he offered to show the salesman "how to get his PC out of screen saver mode". He...did not get the tickets. ;)

[Mycroft Holmes]

As someone pointed out there is a communication gap between you and the sales guy. Fix it, even if it means sitting him down with an interpreter (sales manager) and working through the issue. While you may think sales are a PITA they are the ones on the front line SELLING your work to the customer, if he does not understand your product what chance does the customer have. Having been a (lousy) salesman I can tell you it ain't easy and uppity developers (which I have now been for 20+ year) can really piss you off. Talk to the guy, make sure he understands you, otherwise one of you needs to leave as neither of your are doing your job!

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

[Gary Wheeler]

I've tried the reasonable approach. I've been as patient as I would be with a three year-old child, explaining in single syllable words why what they were asking for wasn't reasonable. This doesn't work, because the sales mind-set is that anything less than a full-bore, balls-to-the-wall aggressive response on your part is simple acquiescence. They don't understand, and moreover they don't want to understand. They don't want techno-babble, they want whatever sweet nothing buzzword the customer's been whispering in their ear in bed at night.

Software Zen: delete this;

[Addy Tas]

As it turns out the spoken language sometimes varies a bit from the written one; ask him to formulate his question in writing, preferably not one big story but a number of (numbered) points which you can answer. No doubt the answers you have been giving him are correct but no where near his "comfort zone". Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you. Discussion is never bad(but it can get utterly tiresome) Regards, AT

Cogito ergo sum

[Gary Wheeler]

You've got to be kidding. In my experience, the only time a salesperson is willing to write is when they're endorsing their commission checks.

Addy Tas wrote:

Getting the discussion in writing may even lead to a third person doing some form of translation between the two of you.

That's our current mechanism. Our organization is big enough that we have 'sales support' personnel who mediate between engineering and the front-line sales people. The only time this doesn't work is when the sales person tries to go directly to engineering with their requests ("it can't be more than a one or two line change, really").

Software Zen: delete this;

[Addy Tas]

mmm, you have those "paper is a crime" (read: If i put it in writing you can show others how stupid i am) persons running around.... hard to work with.

Gary Wheeler wrote:

("it can't be more than a one or two line change, really").

Now that sounds familiar! I have (on multiple accounts) seen other / worse side of that notion. You're asked to create a planning; with the available resources it would take approx 2 months but as it needs to be ready a month ealier, it is sold to the customer to be ready one month before it can be ready.... Wonder why these projects always run late.... Try to get a little zen and let that one guy not ruine your day, week etc.

Cogito ergo sum

[C Jacks]

Four points: 1: you have asked me this question five times (assuming he comes back so you can deliver this) and failed to understand the concept. The definition of crazy is to do something over and over and expect different results. 2: You may consider talking to me like talking to a child but maybe the problem is that explaining something to you that others have no problem with is like explaining something to a moron. 3: Given your inability to understand what others have no problem with and the inability of myself to get you to understand, why don’t you try reading the fine manual. 4: Insulting someone you are dependent on, like biting the hand that feeds you, is a quick way to get yourself cut off. Leave until you can correct your attitude and demonstrate a contrite and humble mind-set. An arrogant mind is a closed mind, incapable of considering itself missing core concepts from which to build understanding.

[Matthew Graybosch]

I've quit jobs over this. If you want me to lie to you, you should have made that clear when you hired me. I'm not going to tell you what you want to hear, no matter how much you bully me.

When posting here, I do not represent anybody but myself.

[agolddog]

Offer him this response: "The first word isn't KSF. The second word can either be, 'you' or, 'off', your choice."

[BrainiacV]

No, rude is when your supervisor, addressing a team who's average age is 30 yells at us to "Grow up!" because we were expressing our opinions on a problem when she just wanted compliance. It was like a supersaturated solution getting that trigger and crystallizing instantly. The mood of the room shifted unanimously against her.

Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.

[BrainiacV]

Quote:

That sort of motivation from them would cause them to ask for things to be done with the software that were irrational, impossible, and ludicrous.

My experience has been that the salesman will never bother to tell you what he promised the client. You'll find out after delivery when the client is hammering you for the missing features.

Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.

[rankinaj]

Interestingly, in some cultures, saying the same thing several different ways is the norm. For example, in Thailand, when you want to communicate something, it is considered impolite to be short and concise. For an American operating in that sort of culture is very frustrating since we tend to lean towards stating something one way as concisely as possible and ONLY once. This is similar to dealing with children - and sales people - who have no concept of what you are trying to explain. Getting frustrated and hurling insults at one another is fun; however, isn't always the best use of time. Unfortunately, the only way out of the situation is to suck-it-up and direct the conversation away from the point of conflict. This is hard, I hate it and get little immediate satisfaction, but I know it is the right thing to do. :mad:

[patbob]

Andrew Rissing wrote:

Obviously, there's a communication barrier somewhere between you guys, you've just got to figure out what is the stumbling block.

Absolutely. You're the smarter dude there, so its your responsibility to understand him. He's asked you multiple times, so he's clearly depending on that from you. Unless, of course, you're sure the smarts go the other way around...

We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

[dpminusa]

Just complement him/her on their suit and tie and press on. That usually works.

"Courtesy is the product of a mature, disciplined mind ... ridicule is lack of the same - DPM"

[Mycroft Holmes]

No no no, this is trying to get across a concept that is already written and in production, the silly bastard has to SELL it now. Under no circumstances should a sales person be allowed to discuss requirements with a developer without a translator/mediator/muzzle carrier present and with the authority to stamp on the sales person.

Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH

[Dave Kreskowiak]

Uhhh...yeah. I have no idea what you're trying to say in relation to what I said.

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