Australian and American English
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Your arguments seem valid. I was taught British English in school when I was young, but I'm more or less americanized now. Easier to spell, and in some cases easier to speak too. "Can't", for instance, is way too difficult to say in British English. A slip of the tongue (why isn't this word spelled "tung"?) and the vowel is exchanged for another vowel, changing its meaning into something obscene. :rolleyes: Chris Maunder wrote: as opposed to the French (not even going to attempt to write it phonetically) I seriously think that the french language should be revised. I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! First: Culture is not a merchandise ;P Second: yes, probably. However there are often different pronunciations of the same word according to the region For example twenty is vingt In North West, it sounds quiet like the french word for wine, vin In North-East, you can cleary hear the final "t": vint And in South West, they put a subtil sound like a "g" at the end: vin(g).
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Thanks for the info :) And thanks for the good :laugh: I had with your comparisons :-D Haakon S. wrote: Finnish is totally different. It is closely related to Hungarian (the language, not the notation). I can not understand a word of it. As you and Jörgen said it, I remember finnish is like hungarian and basque, they aren't indo-european languages :-O I made the mix with another souvenir, some people in Finland speak swedish (don't they ? :confused: )
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
and don't forget about Dutch and Afrikaans (South Africa).
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Thanks for the info :) And thanks for the good :laugh: I had with your comparisons :-D Haakon S. wrote: Finnish is totally different. It is closely related to Hungarian (the language, not the notation). I can not understand a word of it. As you and Jörgen said it, I remember finnish is like hungarian and basque, they aren't indo-european languages :-O I made the mix with another souvenir, some people in Finland speak swedish (don't they ? :confused: )
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: some people in Finland speak swedish Yup, in some parts of finland they speak swedish exclusively. I'm not really sure why the finns are speaking finnish though. :~ Finland was Swedish a long time ago. (I should know this!) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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I blame the Americans ;) Languages evolve. I used to doggedly stand by my convictions that Americans got it wrong, but when you think of a word like 'centre' and realise that we now pronounce it 'center', as opposed to the French (not even going to attempt to write it phonetically) 'centre' you realise that maybe the Americans got it right. Plus, some words that the Americans seemingly mis-pronounce are actually the way the English pronounced them way-back-when. There is, however, no excuse for how American's pronounce Celtic and Notre Dam(e) ;) cheers, Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote: Celtic and Notre Dam(e) Aren't they: Sell-tick and No-tre Dom? At least, I know the last one is right. 2 years of High School French did pay off... :-D
I don't know whether it's just the light but I swear the database server gives me dirty looks everytime I wander past. -Chris Maunder Microsoft has reinvented the wheel, this time they made it round. -Peterchen on VS.NET
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Your arguments seem valid. I was taught British English in school when I was young, but I'm more or less americanized now. Easier to spell, and in some cases easier to speak too. "Can't", for instance, is way too difficult to say in British English. A slip of the tongue (why isn't this word spelled "tung"?) and the vowel is exchanged for another vowel, changing its meaning into something obscene. :rolleyes: Chris Maunder wrote: as opposed to the French (not even going to attempt to write it phonetically) I seriously think that the french language should be revised. I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Well as a fellow Swede, but one that has lived in the US since 1988, let me give you a friendly advice... remember how we were taught that the English word for "sudgummi" is "rubber"... DON'T CALL IT THAT IF YOU ARE IN THE US... In particular, do NOT when (if) in college, you are sitting next to a well endowed blonde, and you need a 'sudgummi', ask said blonde if you could borrow her rubber... It will get you slapped, in the middle of the lecture.. The word to use instead is 'eraser'... (Dang I can still feel the sting from the slap.... but on the other hand she started laughing when I explained and I did get a few dates out of it):-D /CMH
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! First: Culture is not a merchandise ;P Second: yes, probably. However there are often different pronunciations of the same word according to the region For example twenty is vingt In North West, it sounds quiet like the french word for wine, vin In North-East, you can cleary hear the final "t": vint And in South West, they put a subtil sound like a "g" at the end: vin(g).
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
KaЯl wrote: However there are often different pronunciations of the same word according to the region A.k.a dialects :-D When I try to speak French, people laugh at me. I've never studied it. I've been in contact with it of course through movies and such. So when I try to speak it, I take wild guesses at how things should be pronounced. I convince myself I speak very nice French. People who have studied it just fall on the floor laughing. :-O Pale vou franzae? -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! First: Culture is not a merchandise ;P Second: yes, probably. However there are often different pronunciations of the same word according to the region For example twenty is vingt In North West, it sounds quiet like the french word for wine, vin In North-East, you can cleary hear the final "t": vint And in South West, they put a subtil sound like a "g" at the end: vin(g).
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
What if all the people of the world could understand each other? That could be an important contribution for the old dream of "the end of all wars". So many conflicts are based on missunderstanding caused by lack of communication. So at one time somebody tried to come up with a universal language, Esperanto. It never caught on. But today we may have a world language evolving, English. Is that good? Well, any world language is better than no world language. But it really should have been French or German. Why? Because they are much more presice. Both the two languagea have a heavy grammar, but when you know that grammar you know the language! English has little grammar, but a vast number of small rules and specialities that makes it virtually impossible to master it fully if it isn't your mother tounge.
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Well as a fellow Swede, but one that has lived in the US since 1988, let me give you a friendly advice... remember how we were taught that the English word for "sudgummi" is "rubber"... DON'T CALL IT THAT IF YOU ARE IN THE US... In particular, do NOT when (if) in college, you are sitting next to a well endowed blonde, and you need a 'sudgummi', ask said blonde if you could borrow her rubber... It will get you slapped, in the middle of the lecture.. The word to use instead is 'eraser'... (Dang I can still feel the sting from the slap.... but on the other hand she started laughing when I explained and I did get a few dates out of it):-D /CMH
Thanks for the invaluable tip! Chris Hansson wrote: Dang I can still feel the sting from the slap.... but on the other hand she started laughing when I explained and I did get a few dates out of it :laugh::laugh: It kind of reminds me when I pulled out a "snusdosa" labeled "Göteborgs Rapé" in front of an american. "What the hell is that?" -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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I blame the British. ;) Mike Mullikin :beer:
Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps. - Emo Philips
I blame the French, its always France's fault.
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I'm curious to know why these dialects are different from eachother. Does anybody know? -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
The main reason is probably because it was a byproduct of American dictionaries -- after the American Revolution, after Noah Webster and others produced American dictionaries with different spellings of words. As people began using the new spellings, they began pronouncing words slightly differently, and the changes evolved over time. After the Revolution, Webster, Franklin, and others also wanted to break more completely with the English, and one way was to change the 'common' language. They thought about changing the common language to Latin, Greek, etc, but settled for just changing the spellings and then the pronunciation of words. As children learned to read the new spellings, the language gradually changed... _"No one goes to hell because of their sin, but because of rejecting God's method of salvation: His Son's life for yours..."
"It does not take a majority to prevail ... but rather an irate, tireless minority, keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men." --Samuel Adams_
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I blame the Americans ;) Languages evolve. I used to doggedly stand by my convictions that Americans got it wrong, but when you think of a word like 'centre' and realise that we now pronounce it 'center', as opposed to the French (not even going to attempt to write it phonetically) 'centre' you realise that maybe the Americans got it right. Plus, some words that the Americans seemingly mis-pronounce are actually the way the English pronounced them way-back-when. There is, however, no excuse for how American's pronounce Celtic and Notre Dam(e) ;) cheers, Chris Maunder
Don't make us bomb you.
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Finnish is totally different from Swedish, Danish and Norwegian. It's from a different family of languages. Finnish is more related to estonian/estonish(?) and hungarian, while Swedish et al are related to the german language family. I understand written Norwegian well - Bokmål best. Nynorsk is a little bit too weird at times. I understand some spoken Norwegian, mostly southern accents. I understand written Danish mostly. If not, I usually figure it out by context. But when a Dane speaks to me, I have no clue what he's saying. It seems to me that spoken Danish has no consonants! I can understand very little written Icelandic, but not much. Hrafnin flygur (The raven is flying - it's a very good movie) is about the only Icelandic I know on the top of my head. :) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
I thought that Icelandic was very close to Norwegian ? Also I think the language in the Orkney Islands is related. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Your arguments seem valid. I was taught British English in school when I was young, but I'm more or less americanized now. Easier to spell, and in some cases easier to speak too. "Can't", for instance, is way too difficult to say in British English. A slip of the tongue (why isn't this word spelled "tung"?) and the vowel is exchanged for another vowel, changing its meaning into something obscene. :rolleyes: Chris Maunder wrote: as opposed to the French (not even going to attempt to write it phonetically) I seriously think that the french language should be revised. I mean, if they spelled the words using only the letters they actually pronounced, they'd save a lot of money. Book sizes would be reduced by 25-30%, I'm sure! -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: tongue (why isn't this word spelled "tung"?) I think it is because it was originally (and still in some places) pronounced "Tong". Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: and in some cases easier to speak too How the hell does that work? They are both sound the same (minus the accents, which are abundant here), only the US english is the dumbass version to write/read. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: americanized grrrr..... Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Easier to spell I found learning english (the proper english) easy, well its my first language, spellings of words in english are based on the various languages that english consists of. Generally, longer words are french origin. "Magnificent" and "Formidable". Shorter words are either Anglo-Saxon or More modern german origin. The fact is, for some reason, Americans changed the spellings of words to make them easier to learn, I assume its the lazyness factor again. But for some reason have decide to make everything US English now. In a "Choose Language" menu, you will have about 20 languages, "US English" will be there but not british english. It annoys me. Do you know how frustrating when first learning to program and found that the reason my apps/pages didnt work because I was using the words "Centre" and "Colour" rather than the American counterparts. Damn you. English is one of the few languages where for one item you can have several equally viable/related words. E.g. "Cow" was the anglo-saxon word, but "Beuf", the french word (sorry about my spelling) became the name of the meat "Beef".
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
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KaЯl wrote: However there are often different pronunciations of the same word according to the region A.k.a dialects :-D When I try to speak French, people laugh at me. I've never studied it. I've been in contact with it of course through movies and such. So when I try to speak it, I take wild guesses at how things should be pronounced. I convince myself I speak very nice French. People who have studied it just fall on the floor laughing. :-O Pale vou franzae? -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: A.k.a dialects Dialects are another level: for example, we have a german-like dialect in Alsace, but also Corsican, Catalan, Basque, Breton, Occitan, Fleming (sorry for the ones I forgot, please don't bomb my car) We have also local variations of french, the patois. For example, Quebec accents and expressions remember me much more how the old people speak in my northen born country than how people speak where I live, in Toulouse[^]
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: tongue (why isn't this word spelled "tung"?) I think it is because it was originally (and still in some places) pronounced "Tong". Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: and in some cases easier to speak too How the hell does that work? They are both sound the same (minus the accents, which are abundant here), only the US english is the dumbass version to write/read. Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: americanized grrrr..... Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Easier to spell I found learning english (the proper english) easy, well its my first language, spellings of words in english are based on the various languages that english consists of. Generally, longer words are french origin. "Magnificent" and "Formidable". Shorter words are either Anglo-Saxon or More modern german origin. The fact is, for some reason, Americans changed the spellings of words to make them easier to learn, I assume its the lazyness factor again. But for some reason have decide to make everything US English now. In a "Choose Language" menu, you will have about 20 languages, "US English" will be there but not british english. It annoys me. Do you know how frustrating when first learning to program and found that the reason my apps/pages didnt work because I was using the words "Centre" and "Colour" rather than the American counterparts. Damn you. English is one of the few languages where for one item you can have several equally viable/related words. E.g. "Cow" was the anglo-saxon word, but "Beuf", the french word (sorry about my spelling) became the name of the meat "Beef".
We brought out this new and very similar version of our expensive software because the old version was......old....It's a good enough excuse for Microsoft so its fine for us.
Jonny Newman wrote: How the hell does that work? They are both sound the same (minus the accents, which are abundant here), I understand spoken British English equally as well as US English. In some cases even better since you Brits are way more articulate than the average American. But speaking it is a lot harder. It's a very strict language. Vowels feels longer/stretched in British than in US English, which I feel is not very comfortable. Jonny Newman wrote: grrrr..... Don't be so grumpy because your empire fell. ;P :-D Jonny Newman wrote: The fact is, for some reason, Americans changed the spellings of words to make them easier to learn, I assume its the lazyness factor again. I've heard linguists call this language evolution. I think all languages, including British English and French, will evolve eventually into something easier. Faster and better communication is always a good goal, especially in a information-centric like the world we live in now! Jonny Newman wrote: English is one of the few languages where for one item you can have several equally viable/related words. And this is something I love about the English language. The abundance of synonyms! Perfect for a foreigner such as myself. Allthough, some synonyms aren't always equally viable. I remember telling americans that I would go change trousers. Boy did I get a weird look. :~ -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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I thought that Icelandic was very close to Norwegian ? Also I think the language in the Orkney Islands is related. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: I thought that Icelandic was very close to Norwegian ? Indeed they are. Iceland was founded by Norwegians in excile if I remember correctly. I read somewhere that Icelandic hasn't evolved much and that it's very similar to the ancient "nordic" language(s). I remember my teacher explaining that the nordic languages comes in two pairs, {Icelandic, Norwegian} and {Swedish, Danish}. But I can't get this into my brain. Swedish is more like Norwegian than Danish, at least in my mind. :) Colin Davies wrote: Also I think the language in the Orkney Islands is related. Where are the Orkney Islands? Somewhere on the Scotish coast? I remember an old scotish teacher of mine explaining that the scotish english was very much influenced by nordic languages. Mainly because my ancestors came there invading, fishing or whatever they did. :) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
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What if all the people of the world could understand each other? That could be an important contribution for the old dream of "the end of all wars". So many conflicts are based on missunderstanding caused by lack of communication. So at one time somebody tried to come up with a universal language, Esperanto. It never caught on. But today we may have a world language evolving, English. Is that good? Well, any world language is better than no world language. But it really should have been French or German. Why? Because they are much more presice. Both the two languagea have a heavy grammar, but when you know that grammar you know the language! English has little grammar, but a vast number of small rules and specialities that makes it virtually impossible to master it fully if it isn't your mother tounge.
French is really very difficult, 90% of the french don't speak it correctly :) I would say German, because the pronunciation seems easier, but it sounds really...german ;) Everybody should learn at least two languages, it helps to understand how different people may think.
Angels banished from heaven have no choice but to become demons Cowboy Bebop
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Don't make us bomb you.
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Colin Davies wrote: I thought that Icelandic was very close to Norwegian ? Indeed they are. Iceland was founded by Norwegians in excile if I remember correctly. I read somewhere that Icelandic hasn't evolved much and that it's very similar to the ancient "nordic" language(s). I remember my teacher explaining that the nordic languages comes in two pairs, {Icelandic, Norwegian} and {Swedish, Danish}. But I can't get this into my brain. Swedish is more like Norwegian than Danish, at least in my mind. :) Colin Davies wrote: Also I think the language in the Orkney Islands is related. Where are the Orkney Islands? Somewhere on the Scotish coast? I remember an old scotish teacher of mine explaining that the scotish english was very much influenced by nordic languages. Mainly because my ancestors came there invading, fishing or whatever they did. :) -- Only in a world this shitty could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Where are the Orkney Islands? Somewhere on the Scotish coast? Yes, just found a link on the web about it but it said the language was dead. However I distinctly remember meeting a young guy from there that claimed to speak it. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote: Where are the Orkney Islands? Somewhere on the Scotish coast? Yes, just found a link on the web about it but it said the language was dead. However I distinctly remember meeting a young guy from there that claimed to speak it. :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Colin Davies wrote: Yes, just found a link on the web about it but it said the language was dead. However I distinctly remember meeting a young guy from there that claimed to speak it Poor guy, I guess he must have bit it recently. Either that or he thought he was pretty tricky by claiming to speak a language he knew no one could prove he didn't speak. Ryan Johnston