Should Hackers Get Jail Time?
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Well, both.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
Well then it depends. (it did already, but whatever) Consider these wildly different scenario's: - man smuggles guns into the country with the intent to rob a bank with them. - man smuggles guns into the country with the intent to sell them. - man smuggles guns into the country because he owns them, and later decides to sell them. But anyway, would you hold Colt responsible?
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This is why I'm largely uninterested in multiplayer games. Even without cheats, it's still no fun when some 14 year-old with nothing better to do than play all, day every day beats you, because you have a life, and then hurls abuse. See: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/online_gaming[^]
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Well then it depends. (it did already, but whatever) Consider these wildly different scenario's: - man smuggles guns into the country with the intent to rob a bank with them. - man smuggles guns into the country with the intent to sell them. - man smuggles guns into the country because he owns them, and later decides to sell them. But anyway, would you hold Colt responsible?
No, because they are a legitimate manufacturer of guns and sell them for legitimate uses. If someone else was making guns without a license, and selling them to people who could only use them for illegal purposes then they are an accessory to whatever crime gets committed with those guns.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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No, because they are a legitimate manufacturer of guns and sell them for legitimate uses. If someone else was making guns without a license, and selling them to people who could only use them for illegal purposes then they are an accessory to whatever crime gets committed with those guns.
Every man can tell how many goats or sheep he possesses, but not how many friends.
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He isn't, however when there are a few players on a server that are, it makes the game no fun... A friend and I have been playing UT99 (the first one) Assault since it was released, over the last few months we've given up on the game as the servers are now full of cheats using aimbots, This has been a problem before, but before now the community modders have managed to detect and remove these cheats from the game, but the latest bots seems to be undetectable. So for a lot of players a fun challenging game has become pointless playing, because of a few cheats who can't play without computer assistance. You see the same thing on counterstrike and halflife deathmatch servers, players using radar who know you are hiding around corners etc, they are pretty obvious as they just walk around the corner and shoot straight at you, but they claim they are just 'better players'. It's a major problem in online gaming, and it would be nice if it could be dealt with somehow.
Thanks for the explanation:thumbsup: - I now see why this is a problem.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Hacks mean you cannot play the game as intended. Do you see how getting shot through a wall from the otherside of the map might impede that?
I get it now storm-blade's explanation helped me understand. I can see what you are getting at - you have paid money and are not getting what you paid for...
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I don't think it can be called ragequitting if your girlfriend entices you away from the game. We need a new word for this. brewquit, sexquit, lifequit?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
I would think if you are posting on this site you are more interested in technology, algorithms, tools and such of either making apps or hacking them, irrelevant. If you are more interested in playing games than underlying technology may I suggest http://www.disney.com?
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
"Neither a developer nor a player be." -- Polonius
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
If the hackers used their skills to play the game without paying for it, they've stolen something. Send them to jail. For your example, no. The company providing the game is responsible for enforcing player behavior - whether it's profane language or clever hacks / cheats. Complain to the company that took your money. You've paid them for the game experience. We don't need law enforcement and the court system wasting time and expense to do what the game company is too lazy or inept to do themselves.
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Instead of throwing them into a cell we could make them serve a few years in the army :)
And from the clouds a mighty voice spoke:
"Smile and be happy, for it could come worse!"And I smiled and was happy
And it came worse.CDP1802 wrote:
we could make them serve a few years in the army
That fights against a real army of aimbot's.
All of my software is powered by a single Watt.
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I would think if you are posting on this site you are more interested in technology, algorithms, tools and such of either making apps or hacking them, irrelevant. If you are more interested in playing games than underlying technology may I suggest http://www.disney.com?
Games are the most sophisticated programs made. They tax every system resource - sound, graphics, etc. They model real world physics and are littered with algorithms and so forth. Many incorporate the latest advances in AI, or in the case of Kinect, motion capture. It's okay if you are new to programming, but you might wanna read up on a few things before posting.
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If the hackers used their skills to play the game without paying for it, they've stolen something. Send them to jail. For your example, no. The company providing the game is responsible for enforcing player behavior - whether it's profane language or clever hacks / cheats. Complain to the company that took your money. You've paid them for the game experience. We don't need law enforcement and the court system wasting time and expense to do what the game company is too lazy or inept to do themselves.
So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers? I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
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It's not too harsh! In the last COD MW3 there are no dedicated ranked servers, so no moderators. A random PC from the party becomes server. In every other game there is someone using aim-bot, near immortality etc. and ruining the game completely. Some game types like Team Deadmatch are not playable at all because of this low-life insects. I won’t give my $60 for the next game from this franchise. One of the main reasons that the new StarCraft never get popular was the multiplayer hacks. So this people destroy the industry. I don’t think the people who are using hacks has to be punished apart from banning them by hardware. Anyway they've been already punished from the mother nature quite enough. But the people creating these hacks have to serve some jail time for sure.
There is only one Vera Farmiga and Salma Hayek is her prophet! Advertise here – minimum three posts per day are guaranteed.
I got hooked on MW2 and loved it. Hated playing with the hackers, but then something happened... ...I got better, and were able to beat some of the hackers even though they were using cheats. I couldn't get stellar games, but neither could they. Every now and then, I would hit a server that there would be a cheater that ruined it for everyone, including their team. So along comes MW3, and I am expecting some improvements, and found the same damn setup! I agree with you, I won't be contributing to their franchise anymore.
All of my software is powered by a single Watt.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
MehGerbil wrote:
Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people?
While I agree with your sediments, I think it could be more simply put, should these people be dealt with the same as those who create an internet based denial of service attack. The core of what you seem to be trying to say is that there are people who have found ways of denying your ability to play a game that you have paid for. There are existing laws to deal with DOS attacks, maybe those just need to be re-evaluated in how / where they are applied to?
MehGerbil wrote:
Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind.
Instead of removing them from the population, how about giving them something more socially acceptable to exercise their minds with?
Common sense is admitting there is cause and effect and that you can exert some control over what you understand.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
I have had the same feeling many times. However, I just play a different game or choose a different server when this happens. If the game maker can't protect you, then you need a new game. It also takes people reporting it, which no one does in some cases. I have often wondered why it would be illegal for me to test some things out on them, if they've already ruined my fun by hacking. After all, turnabout is fair play I think. Most cases I get their ip address either from the game, the forums, etc.... and then just choose not to use it. I just like knowing that I 'could' ...... By the time I have run down the necessary information I have expelled the negative energy I felt towards them and don't do anything malicious :D
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So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers? I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
So in your world if someone breaks into a bank you punish the bank and don't bother with the robbers?
Gerbil - we live in the same world. If the cheats paid to play, they have a right to be there. If they've violated their TOS, it is up to the game host to enforce the TOS. Boot them off the server with no refund. Lots of people deal with this problem by hosting their own game servers so they can screen players and maintain a quality game experience.
I just don't support the idea that people who maliciously work to destory the efforts of responsible citizens should be given a free pass. I don't see where we give a pass with it comes to the malicious destruction of other people's property/business/etc in other sectors.
Fair enough but I don't want to see government resources spent enforcing one company's business model. The game company has the ability to design and maintain a reliable system with sufficient checks and balances to ensure quality of game play. That may mean hiring full time referees to police players for inappropriate behavior. If you sell a movie ticket to someone and they start talking one their cellphone while the movie is playing, you toss them out without a refund - or risk losing business when the other movie goers choose another cinema. This is the realm of business and civil law - not criminal law. I'm tired of the idea that "there ought to be a law" for every little irritation or inconvenience in life. It's life. We deal with it and move on.
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I've been enjoying online games for about 12 years. In every online game I've played sooner or later someone develops a hack (aimbot, speed hack, etc) and makes a little bit of money marketing it to other players. For a recent example see the Mass Murder hack for Battlefield 3: Mass Murder[^] There are a couple of things that I understand: 1: I understand developing such a hack can be a fun challenge. 2: I understand that the hack has a humorous side to it. That said, in the end a bunch of paying customers for a company are having their entertainment ruined by people who obviously have no interest in playing the game with any integrity. Time and time again I've seen hundreds, and even thousands of people, disrupted because of these sorts of hacks. This seems to be a threat to real people's livelyhood and it ruins the fun for many paying customers. I know it seems draconian, but I'd like to see hard jail time for the people who develop these programs. Somehow, I think if I could program McDonald's coffee machines to spray the interior of restaurant that I'd get some jail time for that behavior. If I could program Ford automobiles to flash their lights randomly or cause city buses to be late there would also be severe punishment. Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end. It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people? Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind. Too harsh?
MehGerbil wrote:
Maybe I'm getting old - but one thing I really dislike about the internet is the sub-culture that seems to feed off making other people's lives miserable. It would be nice to read about these "shops" getting busted up and some hacker kiddies getting slapped around a bit. I realize the hacks are not dangerous and these are games, it's just the opportunistic mindset of a n'vr-do-well that bugs me to no end.
It's like they wake up and think: Oh, a new game. How can I ruin it for thousands of people?
Weeding these folks out of the gene pool would be good for the long term success of human kind.Just finished up reading about Microsoft's improved security. The article kept calling the problems "bugs". Well, no. A bug is what happens when, during the course of normal use, the program (or OS) does something unexpected. A worm infecting 80% of the systems on the planet is not a bug. It's some moron finding a way to purposely break a system. Yes, a security hole. But the only ones using the holes are the asshats. Kill all the asshats and it wouldn't matter if there were holes or not. 7 billion people on the planet. We wouldn't miss them.
So I rounded up my camel Just to ask him for a smoke He handed me a Lucky, I said "Hey, you missed the joke." My Mu[sic] My Films My Windows Programs, etc.