Could I? I need some pointers
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Paul W and I conversed a while ago about the importance of cover letters. To recap. I helped oragnize a study of it last year that focussed on IT jobs in the Australian market. When I posted some information here at CP about it, Paul confirmed after reviewing the employment decisions he had made that the cover letter did actually have impact. The research on cover letters I was involved with was not for advertised positions but more for submissions of approach. However feel free to contact me outside of the forums if you want someone to review your cover letter. As to the CV put everything down as experience that you have in a summary on the top of the CV. That way a future employer doesn't have to read all the boring details. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin
You are the intrepid one, always willing to leap into the fray! A serious character flaw, I might add, but entertaining. Said by Roger Wright about me.
Thanks for the advice. Colin Davies wrote: feel free to contact me outside of the forums if you want someone to review your cover letter I have done, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks! Colin Davies wrote: As to the CV put everything down as experience that you have in a summary on the top of the CV. That way a future employer doesn't have to read all the boring details. Noted. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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David Wulff wrote: I'm not sure though if I may be making it, well, a bit too provocative and in-your-face.
Dear
[name of company], I want you. Not a moment goes by that I don't think of you, wishing nothing more than for you to hold me to yourself, spending eternity clasped to your bosom. My days spent walking your halls, my evenings making love to your coffee machines. For the chance at this, I would risk everything, lose myself for a chance to give you my all. Please don't push me away, you who mean so much to me! Read the list of qualifications I've included at least. Should you choose to snub me, I would be utterly crushed, but what a tragedy it would be for you not to know how much I could mean. I love you. Sincerely,[applicant]---
Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
Mate, you are way beyond hope. Tony Soprano's psychiatrist would have no idea where to start with you. Doesn't the coffee machine burn? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Mate, you are way beyond hope. Tony Soprano's psychiatrist would have no idea where to start with you. Doesn't the coffee machine burn? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Tony Soprano's psychiatrist would have no idea where to start with you. I would suggest the ankles; she could prolly find her way after that. Michael Martin wrote: Doesn't the coffee machine burn? Yes. Oh, yes. Oh god how it burns! :omg:
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
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Mate, you are way beyond hope. Tony Soprano's psychiatrist would have no idea where to start with you. Doesn't the coffee machine burn? Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Michael Martin wrote: Tony Soprano's psychiatrist would have no idea where to start with you. I would suggest the ankles; she could prolly find her way after that. Michael Martin wrote: Doesn't the coffee machine burn? Yes. Oh, yes. Oh god how it burns! :omg:
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
Shog9 wrote: I would suggest the ankles; she could prolly find her way after that. This women would be older than your mother. That's positively Freudian, I'm not touching this line any longer. Shog9 wrote: Yes. Oh, yes. Oh god how it burns! :omg: From that single line I deduce you are a card carrying member of your local Mistress Sally's S&M club. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Shog9 wrote: I would suggest the ankles; she could prolly find her way after that. This women would be older than your mother. That's positively Freudian, I'm not touching this line any longer. Shog9 wrote: Yes. Oh, yes. Oh god how it burns! :omg: From that single line I deduce you are a card carrying member of your local Mistress Sally's S&M club. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: This women would be older than your mother. Well, being a character on a TV show, that's less than obvious (though i'm not an avid Sopranos fan, so maybe it is frequently mentioned and i've just missed it). In any case, she's hot, in a "prim older woman with glasses" sorta way. Michael Martin wrote: I'm not touching this line any longer. Doin' lines off of CP, sounds bad Michael... :~ Michael Martin wrote: From that single line I deduce you are a card carrying member of your local Mistress Sally's S&M club. No. They took away my card after seeing what i did with it. :((
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
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Michael Martin wrote: This women would be older than your mother. Well, being a character on a TV show, that's less than obvious (though i'm not an avid Sopranos fan, so maybe it is frequently mentioned and i've just missed it). In any case, she's hot, in a "prim older woman with glasses" sorta way. Michael Martin wrote: I'm not touching this line any longer. Doin' lines off of CP, sounds bad Michael... :~ Michael Martin wrote: From that single line I deduce you are a card carrying member of your local Mistress Sally's S&M club. No. They took away my card after seeing what i did with it. :((
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
Shog9 wrote: Well, being a character on a TV show, that's less than obvious (though i'm not an avid Sopranos fan, so maybe it is frequently mentioned and i've just missed it). In any case, she's hot, in a "prim older woman with glasses" sorta way. When she got raped we got to see her son. He was at least in his early 20's. Taking into account the fact she had to finish all post doctorate stuff to become a psychiatrist (I assume she did this before having her child) that would put her into the 50's. Also she looks this old anyway when I look at her. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Shog9 wrote: Well, being a character on a TV show, that's less than obvious (though i'm not an avid Sopranos fan, so maybe it is frequently mentioned and i've just missed it). In any case, she's hot, in a "prim older woman with glasses" sorta way. When she got raped we got to see her son. He was at least in his early 20's. Taking into account the fact she had to finish all post doctorate stuff to become a psychiatrist (I assume she did this before having her child) that would put her into the 50's. Also she looks this old anyway when I look at her. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Jason Henderson wrote: Enthusiasm will vault you to the top of the list every time Uh huh, gotcha. Jason Henderson wrote: make sure you ask plenty of good questions and express excitement about the possibility of working for them That's usually where I fall down, but I'll try my best as ever. I can do the whole excitement thing but when it comes to asking questions I always come out with the strangest of things. :( :~
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
Don't worry it is rare for anyone to ask "sensible" questions. I always looked for someone that would "fit in", would be likely to stay for a couple of years. as I mentioned in a previous thread the interviewer will probably not be very proficient in interviewing anyway! Also im my experience it was difficult to find anyone with anything like useful skills, so employing someone was sometimes like Hobsons choice. Interviewing is very frustrating and time consuming, my worst case was a guy via an agency who's CV was superb unfortunately it was a pack of lies, he was very honest and wanted a junior role, his CV made him out to be a highly skilled senior programmer, which was the position I interviewed him for. I gave him a copy of the agencies CV to take away, he agreed it did not match his skills. As some one has offered to vet your letter, take up the offer, a 2nd pair of eyes is great. If you like email me a copy, but don't get too hung up on it, there are no methods that guarantee you getting the interview, even the best letter can fail it you pose a threat to the guy interviewing you, he might not interview you, even if you are the best for the job. It's a minefield out there!
If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants. - Isaac Newton 1676
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Thanks for the advice. Colin Davies wrote: feel free to contact me outside of the forums if you want someone to review your cover letter I have done, if you wouldn't mind. Thanks! Colin Davies wrote: As to the CV put everything down as experience that you have in a summary on the top of the CV. That way a future employer doesn't have to read all the boring details. Noted. :)
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: As to the CV put everything down as experience that you have in a summary on the top of the CV. That way a future employer doesn't have to read all the boring details. But be careful. I've seen lots of CVs where someone with only a few years experience claims to be an expert at c++, sql, java, tcp/ip, web development, and half a dozen more things and you just think that there is no way they could be an expert in all of those things after a few years only. It might be better to put key skills (which should be exactly those you think the possible employer is looking for) and "others" just so they know you know something about a wide range of things without looking stupid because you've claimed to know everything about everything.
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David Wulff wrote: As to the CV put everything down as experience that you have in a summary on the top of the CV. That way a future employer doesn't have to read all the boring details. But be careful. I've seen lots of CVs where someone with only a few years experience claims to be an expert at c++, sql, java, tcp/ip, web development, and half a dozen more things and you just think that there is no way they could be an expert in all of those things after a few years only. It might be better to put key skills (which should be exactly those you think the possible employer is looking for) and "others" just so they know you know something about a wide range of things without looking stupid because you've claimed to know everything about everything.
I'll second that. If you get a cv with lots of buzz words listed in a huge line then you tend to think they are putting them on just because they know about them superficially, and want to impress. It's much better to emphasize the skills you are good at and comfortable with. The original advert may have had a huge list, but, believe me, when we ask for such stuff, we aren't expecting someone who has all of them! The right person with the right attitude would win the job as long as they had (most of) the core skills. The other comments about the covering letter hold weight too, though try not to over-do the enthusiasm though, and keep it professional! Debbie
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Jason Henderson wrote: Enthusiasm will vault you to the top of the list every time Uh huh, gotcha. Jason Henderson wrote: make sure you ask plenty of good questions and express excitement about the possibility of working for them That's usually where I fall down, but I'll try my best as ever. I can do the whole excitement thing but when it comes to asking questions I always come out with the strangest of things. :( :~
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
David Wulff wrote: I can do the whole excitement thing but when it comes to asking questions I always come out with the strangest of things. Well, don't overdo the excitement thing or you may look psychotic.:~ Oh, and one huge hint that is well worth remembering...if the interviewer is a woman, and just happens to come from Tiverton...don't do the walrus joke, ok??? Good luck! Debbie
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Hmm... this is really heading down an ugly road... i'll just let that lay.
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
Shog9 wrote: Hmm... this is really heading down an ugly road... i'll just let that lay. C'mon Josh, don't run away. Just think glasses, knee length skirt, matron style blouse. That's sure to get you going again. :-D Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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David Wulff wrote: I can do the whole excitement thing but when it comes to asking questions I always come out with the strangest of things. Well, don't overdo the excitement thing or you may look psychotic.:~ Oh, and one huge hint that is well worth remembering...if the interviewer is a woman, and just happens to come from Tiverton...don't do the walrus joke, ok??? Good luck! Debbie
Debs wrote: don't do the walrus joke, ok??? It'll be hard, but I'll try... :rolleyes:
David Wulff http://www.davidwulff.co.uk
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(This should go in the “work issues” forum I suppose, but there is a deadline for applications of next Tuesday and I’d like to get mine off this week, which basically means tomorrow, so please accept my apologies.) As I’ve said before, pimping my time to the highest bidder just isn’t offering me a life career so I have been looking for full time employment for the last 6 weeks or so. From my local paper tonight: “Web Developer Exciting opportunity to join rapidly expanding Exeter based software development house. Practical experiences of HTML, ASP, VBScript, JavaScript, ADO, SQL, SQL Server 7/2000, Access 97/2000 required. Knowledge of Internet Information Server, Visual Basic, MFC, C++, ODBC, TCP/IP, Winsock, would be advantageous. Starting £23K” I may need to touch up a bit on my VBScript, uck, I’ve been getting a lot of SQL Server experience the last month or so (at least the kind I suspect they are after; I’m no DBA but I can setup a database and do the basic admin stuff) and the rest I feel I can meet to a high enough standard if not exceed it based on what I’ve seen of this company and their current work. I know enough VB to bluff my way through most tasks I’ve ever needed it for, so that may even be enough. It’s pretty much what I’ve been doing for two years but is steady and with paid sick leave. I can talk my way through most of the “advantageous” stuff if needed – I know my way around even if I may need a torch every now and again when it gets to the heavy stuff (networking sticks in my throat for example). I’m hoping that that side of things would be for creating/managing server side components, which I am fine with. It’s an entry level position so hopefully they will accept some of the commercial work I’ve done before as references (some places won’t accept references from companies you’ve worked with on a freelance-contract basis, even if you’ve been with one company for over a year :(). I hope these guys will because I’ve got some great ones up my sleeve. The money isn’t great when you get into a place like London, but for the South West of the country that is over three times the minimum wage and more than double the average. Most other jobs I’ve been applying for have been offering the bare minimum £7 a year because I am under twenty one. :(( I will apply regardless because one has to keep trying or not try at all. If I can get them to interview me then I would do much better – I hate writing CV’s, they're so cold and impersional. Do you have any tips
Good luck with the job. If you ever feel like moving to the South East (Sussex), drop us a line. :-D
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Christian Graus wrote: When he said that it was double the average, I took that to mean the average wage, not the average for his age. It may have been more that it was double the average for his area of England than fir his age. Christian Graus wrote: I guess it's no different to me trying to live in Sydney on my $45k. It could not be done. I wouldn't recommend it. I think I am on about $2-3,000 more than this at the moment. If I was single I could probably get by, even with my current debts. But add wife (doesn't work) and 2 kids it don't work. <thread hijack> How's it all going down there in Hobart? Haven't caught up for a chat for a long fucking time. So just out of interest not nosiness. By the way did you hear my daughter lost one of her front teeth when she rolled out of our bed New Years day. Banged it on the bottom of my computer chair which is setup on the side of our bedroom. Blood everywhere and spent the morning in a couple of emergency wards. Pediatric dental specialist hoped it would firm up (very fucking lose, pushed towards the back of her mouth) and move forward again. 1 week later (2 days after her 3rd birthday) it came out as it was still very loose and was hitting against her bottom tooth and causing shit loads of pain. I'm not happy as she will be about 3 years before the replacement comes in. </thread hijack> Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: How's it all going down there in Hobart? Haven't caught up for a chat for a long f***ing time. No, we haven't. Weren't you going to call me ? Things are good, if busy. Work is fun, and busy. Life is good. Michael Martin wrote: By the way did you hear my daughter lost one of her front teeth when she rolled out of our bed New Years day. No, I didn't. Sounds like fun. Hannah lost her first tooth recently, she was beside herself with excitement. It's not too bad, imagine if she was 6 and it was the second tooth she lost. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Michael Martin wrote: How's it all going down there in Hobart? Haven't caught up for a chat for a long f***ing time. No, we haven't. Weren't you going to call me ? Things are good, if busy. Work is fun, and busy. Life is good. Michael Martin wrote: By the way did you hear my daughter lost one of her front teeth when she rolled out of our bed New Years day. No, I didn't. Sounds like fun. Hannah lost her first tooth recently, she was beside herself with excitement. It's not too bad, imagine if she was 6 and it was the second tooth she lost. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: No, we haven't. Weren't you going to call me ? Things are good, if busy. Work is fun, and busy. Life is good. Yes I was and eventually I will. Luckily I know you aren't the type to be holding your breath. If your were you would have dropped from number 2 position due to your death. Good to hear work is good, always better to be busy and otherwise you can start to think retrenchment. Hope kids are fine and rooting is looing more likely. I live in hope as you do. Christian Graus wrote: No, I didn't. Sounds like fun. Hannah lost her first tooth recently, she was beside herself with excitement. It's not too bad, imagine if she was 6 and it was the second tooth she lost. Glad to hear Hanna has started the teething process and is enjoying it. Jeremy should be there soon, 13 more days till 6. I know where you are coming from with 'It's only a baby tooth' line, but believe me it is no relief. Even though she goes on like nothing happened it is smacking me against the wall on a daily basis. My son was in the hospital 3 seperate times to remove small cysts (basically bloacked galnds that went beyond the pimple stage) from his eyelids when he was 2 and 3. I cut the side of his neck with a knife or fork (not sure) when he came running and jumping into his seat (about 4) when I was feeding him dinner. Both kids have fallen over split their heads with blood everywhere and all the other stuff kids like them and me who just go nuts do. But the tooth episode has smacked me down like one of Michael Dunn's WWF wrestlers. I can't explain it. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: No, we haven't. Weren't you going to call me ? Things are good, if busy. Work is fun, and busy. Life is good. Yes I was and eventually I will. Luckily I know you aren't the type to be holding your breath. If your were you would have dropped from number 2 position due to your death. Good to hear work is good, always better to be busy and otherwise you can start to think retrenchment. Hope kids are fine and rooting is looing more likely. I live in hope as you do. Christian Graus wrote: No, I didn't. Sounds like fun. Hannah lost her first tooth recently, she was beside herself with excitement. It's not too bad, imagine if she was 6 and it was the second tooth she lost. Glad to hear Hanna has started the teething process and is enjoying it. Jeremy should be there soon, 13 more days till 6. I know where you are coming from with 'It's only a baby tooth' line, but believe me it is no relief. Even though she goes on like nothing happened it is smacking me against the wall on a daily basis. My son was in the hospital 3 seperate times to remove small cysts (basically bloacked galnds that went beyond the pimple stage) from his eyelids when he was 2 and 3. I cut the side of his neck with a knife or fork (not sure) when he came running and jumping into his seat (about 4) when I was feeding him dinner. Both kids have fallen over split their heads with blood everywhere and all the other stuff kids like them and me who just go nuts do. But the tooth episode has smacked me down like one of Michael Dunn's WWF wrestlers. I can't explain it. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: Luckily I know you aren't the type to be holding your breath. No, I just take it as it comes... Michael Martin wrote: always better to be busy and otherwise you can start to think retrenchment. Yeah, when we hire so much, it has been a worry of mine, but it seems we are on the up and up. Michael Martin wrote: Hope kids are fine and rooting is looing more likely. I live in hope as you do. Yeah, the kids are a little challenging at the moment, but nothing out of the ordinary. We're talking about having another, which is always a good way to improve my sex life. Michael Martin wrote: Glad to hear Hanna has started the teething process and is enjoying it. She was the last of her friends to start, and really fretted about it. So she was more than a little excited. Michael Martin wrote: But the tooth episode has smacked me down like one of Michael Dunn's WWF wrestlers. I can't explain it. I can only speak for myself, but having a daughter makes me feel far more protective than having a son. I love them both, and am upset when either of them is unwell, but Hannah always affects me more, because she is my girl. Perhaps it's the same for you. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002 -
Michael Martin wrote: Luckily I know you aren't the type to be holding your breath. No, I just take it as it comes... Michael Martin wrote: always better to be busy and otherwise you can start to think retrenchment. Yeah, when we hire so much, it has been a worry of mine, but it seems we are on the up and up. Michael Martin wrote: Hope kids are fine and rooting is looing more likely. I live in hope as you do. Yeah, the kids are a little challenging at the moment, but nothing out of the ordinary. We're talking about having another, which is always a good way to improve my sex life. Michael Martin wrote: Glad to hear Hanna has started the teething process and is enjoying it. She was the last of her friends to start, and really fretted about it. So she was more than a little excited. Michael Martin wrote: But the tooth episode has smacked me down like one of Michael Dunn's WWF wrestlers. I can't explain it. I can only speak for myself, but having a daughter makes me feel far more protective than having a son. I love them both, and am upset when either of them is unwell, but Hannah always affects me more, because she is my girl. Perhaps it's the same for you. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002Christian Graus wrote: I can only speak for myself, but having a daughter makes me feel far more protective than having a son. I love them both, and am upset when either of them is unwell, but Hannah always affects me more, because she is my girl. Perhaps it's the same for you. I don't think it is the case with me. I think it's because it is something so permanent. On the whole boy/girl thing, I think I let her get away with a little bit more and I am harder on Jeremy when he fucks up. But I think I am pretty close when it comes to how I react when they achieve something, are good or how I feel about them. I think I would feel just as fucked if Jeremy does something that is permanent or long term in the damage stakes. Though I suppose I am not really objective when looking at my own performance. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
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Christian Graus wrote: I can only speak for myself, but having a daughter makes me feel far more protective than having a son. I love them both, and am upset when either of them is unwell, but Hannah always affects me more, because she is my girl. Perhaps it's the same for you. I don't think it is the case with me. I think it's because it is something so permanent. On the whole boy/girl thing, I think I let her get away with a little bit more and I am harder on Jeremy when he fucks up. But I think I am pretty close when it comes to how I react when they achieve something, are good or how I feel about them. I think I would feel just as fucked if Jeremy does something that is permanent or long term in the damage stakes. Though I suppose I am not really objective when looking at my own performance. Michael Martin Australia mjm68@tpg.com.au "I personally love it because I can get as down and dirty as I want on the backend, while also being able to dabble with fun scripting and presentation games on the front end." - Chris Maunder 15/07/2002
Michael Martin wrote: I think it's because it is something so permanent. Yeah, that's fair enough. I am harder on Calvin, but only because Donna isn't and he's getting spoiled. But can she see that ? We have the 'you have two kids' argument quite often. Yes, and I love both enough to teach them how to function in life, which means taking responsibility and being able to do what they are told by an authority figure. Christian No offense, but I don't really want to encourage the creation of another VB developer. - Larry Antram 22 Oct 2002
C# will attract all comers, where VB is for IT Journalists and managers - Michael P Butler 05-12-2002
Again, you can screw up a C/C++ program just as easily as a VB program. OK, maybe not as easily, but it's certainly doable. - Jamie Nordmeyer - 15-Nov-2002
