Abortion
-
Blimey! Way to read what you want to read from what I said!
ryanb31 wrote:
So, you really believe that if rape were legal it would not happen anymore than it does now?
Show me where I said that!
ryanb31 wrote:
Legalizing drugs?
I can't abide people that split hairs and are deliberately pedantic to make a point at the expense of the original point. Not surprised you got downvoted for it though not by me.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
Wrong. Answering to yourself is just as important (if not more IMO) than anyone (or any"thing" else) If you can not forgive yourself, how do you expect your god to?
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
"
Quote:
Answering to yourself is just as important (if not more IMO) than anyone (or any"thing" else)
" So, you are the supreme being? How nice not to have to answer to anyone else. You can make up your own rules and whatever you do is right because there is no one and nothing higher? Wish I could convince myself to think that way.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
You're right. It is "hideous behavior" to try and prevent unwed sex, incest, rape, abuse, etc. How dare religious people do that.
It is hideous, yes. How dare religious people do that! 1) According to the bible, rape is something god demands that his followers do when he wants them to. 2) According to the bible, the rape victim along with the rapist should be taken outside the city gates and stoned to death. 3) According to the bible, you can sell your daughter into slavery where she is to "please the man who bought her". 4) According to the bible, a rapist must marry the woman if he gets caught.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
At least the one we answer to can be proven to exist.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Regardless, my point is to reduce abortions, reduce the need. To reduce the need, change peoples behavior. To change peoples behavior, teach them to be responsible and unselfish. The reality is that most abortions are not because of rape, or incest, or life of the mother. Most abortions are for birth control[^] reasons[^]. While we may not be able to significantly impact the instances of rape, we can and should try remove the need for "abortions of convenience".
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
Do not pretend you have the thoughts of every woman that has had an abortion in your mind.
Certainly not! I don't have the thoughts of even a single woman one in my mind. I'm grateful that I'll never have to be in such a circumstance. My heart goes out to those who find themselves in such a situation. [Edited to add source for reasons for abortions]
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
Most abortions are for birth control reasons.
Unfortunately, I suspect you are correct on this, but I would suggest you cite a source when you make a statement like that or you may get hammered on the post. (I, for one, will not downvote this post)
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
I quoted what you said so why are you questioning? You said "Simply making laws has not stopped the behaviour." So, should we take the laws away? What was your point? Please explain.
Learn to read what was said without automatically adding your own spin to it. I said "Simply making laws has not stopped the behaviour" - a valid observation. Where you get from that that I think all laws are useless and should be scrapped is way beyond me. It's you that need to explain how you made that leap.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
ahmed zahmed wrote:
Most abortions are for birth control reasons.
Unfortunately, I suspect you are correct on this, but I would suggest you cite a source when you make a statement like that or you may get hammered on the post. (I, for one, will not downvote this post)
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
Thanks for your suggestion. Point taken.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Learn to read what was said without automatically adding your own spin to it. I said "Simply making laws has not stopped the behaviour" - a valid observation. Where you get from that that I think all laws are useless and should be scrapped is way beyond me. It's you that need to explain how you made that leap.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
So, to be clear, you ARE saying it is wrong for people to try and prevent rape? And by the way, you do not know how to interpret the Bible.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, to be clear, you ARE saying it is wrong for people to try and prevent rape?
Your english comprehension skills are about as clear as mud. If you are going to make an accusation such as that, perhaps you could be intelligent enough to provide a quote to back your claim. I have said nothing of the sort in any of my comments.
ryanb31 wrote:
And by the way, you do not know how to interpret the Bible.
Ah yes. The wonderful "Only believers can know interpret the bible" argument. Yes, that is a great rational way to discuss something. Perhaps you can explain to me why this is the case?
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Why? I have no one to answer to. It's interesting that you want to work so hard to eliminate abortion which results from rape or child abuse but what about the underlying issue of violence towards women? Isn't abortion in that case a minor side issue? What about abused women who don't fall pregnant? Social programs targeting violence towards women are something I'm happy to see government spend my tax dollar on. Does that make me a liberal?
-
You have proof everywhere that God exists, you just ignore it. Also, what proof is there that you exist? How do we know it is not a matrix situation and you are merely a program? Just saying.
ryanb31 wrote:
You have proof everywhere that God exists, you just ignore it.
I disagree. I have proof that the universe exists, that the earth exists, and that I exist. Why, because I am self-aware and aware of my environment. I see no proof there that god exists. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that proof. I'll gladly look at any proof you may have, but you will have to be willing to read the rebuttals as well.
ryanb31 wrote:
How do we know it is not a matrix situation and you are merely a program? Just saying.
We don't. I would never have the arrogance to claim that I have an answer for everything. The difference is that I don't need to have a catch-all to explain what I don't understand.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
ryanb31 wrote:
So, to be clear, you ARE saying it is wrong for people to try and prevent rape?
Your english comprehension skills are about as clear as mud. If you are going to make an accusation such as that, perhaps you could be intelligent enough to provide a quote to back your claim. I have said nothing of the sort in any of my comments.
ryanb31 wrote:
And by the way, you do not know how to interpret the Bible.
Ah yes. The wonderful "Only believers can know interpret the bible" argument. Yes, that is a great rational way to discuss something. Perhaps you can explain to me why this is the case?
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
Ok, I'll hold your hand through this since you are a little slow. You said
Quote:
And the religious conveniently justify their hideous behavior
So, I sarcastically replied
Quote:
You're right. It is "hideous behavior" to try and prevent unwed sex, incest, rape, abuse, etc. How dare religious people do that.
Ok, so far you said religious people justify their hideous behavior. This thread was about trying to prevent the reasons we have abortion. So it sounded like you were saying the religious were hideous in trying to stop rapes, for example? You still with me? I know it is a lot. So, then YOU said
Quote:
It is hideous, yes. How dare religious people do that!
So, yes YOU said that it is hideous for people to try to prevent rape. Still with me? And because that seems absurd, even for you, I rephrased to make sure I understood and I said
Quote:
So, to be clear, you ARE saying it is wrong for people to try and prevent rape?
I am NOT putting words in your mouth. I asked if you thought it was hideous for religious people to try and prevent rape and you said yes. I asked you to clarify and then you say I am the one who does not understand English. I am quoting YOU. You also said
Quote:
provide a quote to back your claim.
which I did quote you in both of my posts. Where did I lose you? This isn't really that hard. Maybe I need more "take off 'eh?" and then you will understand what I am saying, eh? And, secondly, about the Bible. It was written by men who were inspired through the Spirit by God, so YES, YES, YES, it can only be interpreted correctly through the Spirit. Thank you for agreeing.
-
Why? I have no one to answer to. It's interesting that you want to work so hard to eliminate abortion which results from rape or child abuse but what about the underlying issue of violence towards women? Isn't abortion in that case a minor side issue? What about abused women who don't fall pregnant? Social programs targeting violence towards women are something I'm happy to see government spend my tax dollar on. Does that make me a liberal?
-
ryanb31 wrote:
You have proof everywhere that God exists, you just ignore it.
I disagree. I have proof that the universe exists, that the earth exists, and that I exist. Why, because I am self-aware and aware of my environment. I see no proof there that god exists. Perhaps you can enlighten me on that proof. I'll gladly look at any proof you may have, but you will have to be willing to read the rebuttals as well.
ryanb31 wrote:
How do we know it is not a matrix situation and you are merely a program? Just saying.
We don't. I would never have the arrogance to claim that I have an answer for everything. The difference is that I don't need to have a catch-all to explain what I don't understand.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
You say you exist because you are self-aware. Everyone in the matrix thought they existed, thought they were self-aware, but they weren't. The matrix is silly but my point is you do not have proof for what you believe. I have heard all of the rebuttals. I get downvoted all the time in this forum for believing in God, which is fine, and in other forums I am praised for believing in God. This group is quite godless for some reason. The proof is simple. Open your eyes, it is everywhere. It is not possible for the universe and everything to have been created from nothing. It was created from God. However, for you to accept that you must understand how spiritual things work. Spiritual proof is both intellectual and in the heart. Godless people are strictly intellectual types (not necessarily intelligent) so they can NEVER understand anything spiritual, even the most basic concepts, such as God existing. You will never understand God until you first understand what your relationship with Him is. It would be like me trying to teach you calculus without you even understanding addition and subtraction. It would be impossible. So, I give you the physical proof of everything and you chose to deny it. If you had an open heart, then we could continue on in the proof of spiritual items, but until then, there is no point.
-
"
Quote:
Answering to yourself is just as important (if not more IMO) than anyone (or any"thing" else)
" So, you are the supreme being? How nice not to have to answer to anyone else. You can make up your own rules and whatever you do is right because there is no one and nothing higher? Wish I could convince myself to think that way.
Could be. Not sure. I have never crushed a man's skull with my mind, but then again I have never really tried. But I do not see how that is relevant. My point is if you can not answer to yourself for judging then obviously you are guilty. Judging oneself is the first judgement as you would not do something if you thought about it and decided it was wrong. That is why it is the most important. I do not need some super zombie lord or his zombie followers telling me what is right and wrong. I know because I listen to my fellow man.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
-
Why? I have no one to answer to. It's interesting that you want to work so hard to eliminate abortion which results from rape or child abuse but what about the underlying issue of violence towards women? Isn't abortion in that case a minor side issue? What about abused women who don't fall pregnant? Social programs targeting violence towards women are something I'm happy to see government spend my tax dollar on. Does that make me a liberal?
_Josh_ wrote:
what about the underlying issue of violence towards women?
Indeed, solve that and you solve the rape issue too.
_Josh_ wrote:
Does that make me a liberal?
Not at all. That makes you caring. As if being liberal is something bad.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Ok, I'll hold your hand through this since you are a little slow. You said
Quote:
And the religious conveniently justify their hideous behavior
So, I sarcastically replied
Quote:
You're right. It is "hideous behavior" to try and prevent unwed sex, incest, rape, abuse, etc. How dare religious people do that.
Ok, so far you said religious people justify their hideous behavior. This thread was about trying to prevent the reasons we have abortion. So it sounded like you were saying the religious were hideous in trying to stop rapes, for example? You still with me? I know it is a lot. So, then YOU said
Quote:
It is hideous, yes. How dare religious people do that!
So, yes YOU said that it is hideous for people to try to prevent rape. Still with me? And because that seems absurd, even for you, I rephrased to make sure I understood and I said
Quote:
So, to be clear, you ARE saying it is wrong for people to try and prevent rape?
I am NOT putting words in your mouth. I asked if you thought it was hideous for religious people to try and prevent rape and you said yes. I asked you to clarify and then you say I am the one who does not understand English. I am quoting YOU. You also said
Quote:
provide a quote to back your claim.
which I did quote you in both of my posts. Where did I lose you? This isn't really that hard. Maybe I need more "take off 'eh?" and then you will understand what I am saying, eh? And, secondly, about the Bible. It was written by men who were inspired through the Spirit by God, so YES, YES, YES, it can only be interpreted correctly through the Spirit. Thank you for agreeing.
ryanb31 wrote:
You also said
Quote:
provide a quote to back your claim.
which I did quote you in both of my posts.
Really. Where? I reread all the posts you have made. Not even once have you formulated any kind of a logical comment. This post is about as close as you have come, and if that is all you are capable of, then I pity you.
ryanb31 wrote:
It was written by men who were inspired through the Spirit by God, so YES, YES, YES, it can only be interpreted correctly through the Spirit.
Too funny. And which one of the million interpretations for the book coming from believers all over the planet and throughout the ages is the right one. Let me guess. Only the interpretation from you or that made by the church you attend is the "right" one.
ryanb31 wrote:
Maybe I need more "take off 'eh?"
:doh: Really. Are you really that juvenile?
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Read it all again. What do you think given the context of the conversation and the road we were travelling before you joined in? BTW: your tone is abrasive and combative: no wonder your points total is so low - you need to learny to play nice with others or you'll get short shrift - we're here for fun, not to be shredded every time we say something you think you can jump on when you feel like it. My gut feeling is that you're a stroppy teenager who thinks (like we all did!) that we know everything. Trust me: you know nothing! Happy to be proved wrong but it is how you're coming across.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
You say you exist because you are self-aware. Everyone in the matrix thought they existed, thought they were self-aware, but they weren't. The matrix is silly but my point is you do not have proof for what you believe. I have heard all of the rebuttals. I get downvoted all the time in this forum for believing in God, which is fine, and in other forums I am praised for believing in God. This group is quite godless for some reason. The proof is simple. Open your eyes, it is everywhere. It is not possible for the universe and everything to have been created from nothing. It was created from God. However, for you to accept that you must understand how spiritual things work. Spiritual proof is both intellectual and in the heart. Godless people are strictly intellectual types (not necessarily intelligent) so they can NEVER understand anything spiritual, even the most basic concepts, such as God existing. You will never understand God until you first understand what your relationship with Him is. It would be like me trying to teach you calculus without you even understanding addition and subtraction. It would be impossible. So, I give you the physical proof of everything and you chose to deny it. If you had an open heart, then we could continue on in the proof of spiritual items, but until then, there is no point.
ryanb31 wrote:
Everyone in the matrix thought they existed, thought they were self-aware, but they weren't.
Go watch the movie again. The people in the matrix did exist. It was their life in the matrix that was a fabrication.
ryanb31 wrote:
The matrix is silly but my point is you do not have proof for what you believe.
What exactly do I believe that I have no proof for?
ryanb31 wrote:
I get downvoted all the time in this forum for believing in God
Wrong, you get downvoted for being an arrogant twat. There are many people here who are christian, muslim, jew, hindu, or any other number of religious viewpoints. No one gets downvoted for believing in their sky-pixie of choice. If there is a downvote, it is becuase the post is either irrelevant, silly, or arrogant.
ryanb31 wrote:
It is not possible for the universe and everything to have been created from nothing.
Agreed. But in no way, shape or form does that imply that some sky pixie made it. As for that, where did your sky pixie come from? Did it come from nothing?
ryanb31 wrote:
for you to accept that you must understand how spiritual things work.
Ah yes, the good ol' "I'm smarter than ya' because the Spirit tells me so" argument. This is the type of arrogance that destroys any credibility your arguments contain. What makes you think I can't understand how "spiritual" things work, by the way?
ryanb31 wrote:
If you had an open heart,
If I had an "open heart" then I probably would have ended up sleeping with a lot more girls who I chose not to because I used my head in which case the original topic may have had more personal relevance than it does now. :)
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
The real answer for abortion is being morally responsible about sex in the first place. People (men and women) need to understand that the choice is made at the time of intercourse that you will be responsible for the potential outcome: life. (Even if you're using contraception, a pregnancy is still possible. Contraception is not 100% foolproof.) Don't have sex until you're ready and able to be responsible for the possible outcome. Hence, no need for abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't rape women (indeed, don't rape anyone). Hence, no need for abortion because of rape. Don't have sex with your children (just another form of rape). Hence, no need for abortion because of incest. Don't have sex with someone you're not supposed to. Hence, no need for abortion because of adultery or licentious behavior. That leaves only abortion for the life & health of the mother. A relatively rare instance. In many cases, the mother would rather give her life (my wife included). Do I believe this is possible, yes. Do I believe it probable, no. Still that's the only real, viable solution. Wanton killing of babies because you are irresponsible and life is inconvenient is not a moral choice, is not a moral stance.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunSo if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone. What utter moralistic bullshit. You stand does not take into account the way people are and assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
