Abortion
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The real answer for abortion is being morally responsible about sex in the first place. People (men and women) need to understand that the choice is made at the time of intercourse that you will be responsible for the potential outcome: life. (Even if you're using contraception, a pregnancy is still possible. Contraception is not 100% foolproof.) Don't have sex until you're ready and able to be responsible for the possible outcome. Hence, no need for abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't rape women (indeed, don't rape anyone). Hence, no need for abortion because of rape. Don't have sex with your children (just another form of rape). Hence, no need for abortion because of incest. Don't have sex with someone you're not supposed to. Hence, no need for abortion because of adultery or licentious behavior. That leaves only abortion for the life & health of the mother. A relatively rare instance. In many cases, the mother would rather give her life (my wife included). Do I believe this is possible, yes. Do I believe it probable, no. Still that's the only real, viable solution. Wanton killing of babies because you are irresponsible and life is inconvenient is not a moral choice, is not a moral stance.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
The real answer for abortion is being morally responsible about sex in the first place. People (men and women) need to understand that the choice is made at the time of intercourse that you will be responsible for the potential outcome: life. (Even if you're using contraception, a pregnancy is still possible. Contraception is not 100% foolproof.) Don't have sex until you're ready and able to be responsible for the possible outcome. Hence, no need for abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't rape women (indeed, don't rape anyone). Hence, no need for abortion because of rape. Don't have sex with your children (just another form of rape). Hence, no need for abortion because of incest. Don't have sex with someone you're not supposed to. Hence, no need for abortion because of adultery or licentious behavior. That leaves only abortion for the life & health of the mother. A relatively rare instance. In many cases, the mother would rather give her life (my wife included). Do I believe this is possible, yes. Do I believe it probable, no. Still that's the only real, viable solution. Wanton killing of babies because you are irresponsible and life is inconvenient is not a moral choice, is not a moral stance.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun:laugh: Fucking hell. I've met ten year olds with more wisdom. "Abortion: uhh, abortion is bad and people need to know that abortion is bad and then there will be no more abortions the end." "Sex: uhh, sex is bad and gross and people shouldn't do it the end." "Prison: uhh, prison is like bad and stuff and people should stop being bad so they don't go to prison the end."
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:laugh: Fucking hell. I've met ten year olds with more wisdom. "Abortion: uhh, abortion is bad and people need to know that abortion is bad and then there will be no more abortions the end." "Sex: uhh, sex is bad and gross and people shouldn't do it the end." "Prison: uhh, prison is like bad and stuff and people should stop being bad so they don't go to prison the end."
LOL. Coming from you I take that as a compliment. So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
So, why is my opinion of God does exist arrogant and your opinion of he does not exist not arrogant? Stop being a hypocritical troll.
The opinion is not what's arrogant. It's your tone, the way you say things. You are arrogant ans it has been told numerous times on this thread, you maybe should think about that, I think you should learn to communicate. I downvoted you numerous times too by the way, I don't like reading your posts, wonder why... Have a nice day.
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Apparently you have no answer for my rebuttals, so you have resorted again to name calling and juvenile behavior. Trolling indeed.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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I stopped responding to him last night: My suspicion then was that he is trolling. The fact that he has started to open up this topic again to get a second round in, coupled to him accusing you of trolling pretty much confirms it in my view.
Sort of a cross between Lawrence of Arabia and Dilbert.[^]
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A Dead ringer for Kate Winslett[^]I agree that he has been trolling, Keith. I'm just having fun pushing his buttons on this one because deep down, I really think he feels he is more intelligent with his divine knowledge. I could care less about changing his mind on the issue. It is only because of his arrogance that I'm enjoying watching his rep drop even lower than I thought was possible. Nice comments from you yesterday, BTW.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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Apparently you have no answer for my rebuttals, so you have resorted again to name calling and juvenile behavior. Trolling indeed.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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So, why is my opinion of God does exist arrogant and your opinion of he does not exist not arrogant? Stop being a hypocritical troll.
I am not the one claiming to have some magical, exclusive knowledge. I am not the one resorting to juvenile name-calling. I am not the one throwing the stones. In fact, my behavior has been more christian in this forum than yours. Cheers.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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I am not the one claiming to have some magical, exclusive knowledge. I am not the one resorting to juvenile name-calling. I am not the one throwing the stones. In fact, my behavior has been more christian in this forum than yours. Cheers.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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To you? No: you plainly don't understand and your attitude sucks. Don't make demands and don't respond to any more of my posts as I will ignore you.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone. What utter moralistic bullshit. You stand does not take into account the way people are and assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I have to correct you on this one. According to the bible, sex is acceptable for more than just procreation. It also has god's stamp of approval in the form of rape :doh: Since ryan will likely tell me I'm misinterpreting the bible again, then I would suggest he read the following biblical passages: Judges 21: 10-24, Numbers 31: 7-18, Deuteronomy 20: 10-14, Judges 5:30(this was is really awesome), Zechariah 14:1-2.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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About abortion, whatever the morale stance pragmatism wins. When abortion is made illegal, it happens anyway, in terrible conditions for womens with many casualties, and in foreign countries where it is legal for the ones who can afford it. So, in one hand deaths of human beings, in another destructions of embryos, which are "multicellular diploid eukaryotes in their earliest stage of development" (dixit Wikipedia)... I consider the former more serious than the latter. I have also many doubt for the future of a child who is not wanted by his/her mother. Sometimes it may be better not to be born than having a shitty life. Anyway, "Don't rape women" would be a good thing to enforce. How millions women are raped, most often by their husbands they did not want to marry, who force them to have sex? Billions maybe? Sounds to me a much more important and serious debate than abortion... question of values I presume.
When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?
Nicely put. +5.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that. You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
ryanb31 wrote:
I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that.
Read again. I have addressed every point you have made. Perhaps you could provide me a list of things that I have not responded to and I would be glad to do so.
ryanb31 wrote:
You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
Explain, please: "You said you didn't say things which you did say." Could it in any way be that you have misinterpreted something that I wrote? Please by all means provide me a list of things I keep changing. I would especially like to see a list of places where I "blame" you. I will gladly respond to those allegations.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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Have you?
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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LOL. Coming from you I take that as a compliment. So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
No, I don't. What I'm saying is that it's such a superficial observation that it's barely worth the weight in gold of the electrons used to transmit the bits.
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To you? No: you plainly don't understand and your attitude sucks. Don't make demands and don't respond to any more of my posts as I will ignore you.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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ryanb31 wrote:
I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that.
Read again. I have addressed every point you have made. Perhaps you could provide me a list of things that I have not responded to and I would be glad to do so.
ryanb31 wrote:
You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
Explain, please: "You said you didn't say things which you did say." Could it in any way be that you have misinterpreted something that I wrote? Please by all means provide me a list of things I keep changing. I would especially like to see a list of places where I "blame" you. I will gladly respond to those allegations.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
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So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone. What utter moralistic bullshit. You stand does not take into account the way people are and assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone.
None of what I said implies that at all. You're twisting my words. I didn't address the "pleasure" aspect of sex at all.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
What utter moralistic bullsh*t.
So being responsible for one's actions, exercising self-control and self-restraint is moralistic bullshit? Wow, thanks for your enlightenment.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
You stand does not take into account the way people are
Actually it does. I am saying people need to be more than they are and act more responsibly.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation
No it doesn't assume that. You can have sex for pleasure, but you must also be cognizant of the consequences of said pleasure-taking: the possibility of creating life. If you're unwilling or unable to be responsible for that possibility, then do the responsible thing: abstain until you are willing and able.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
ahmed zahmed wrote:
So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
No, I don't. What I'm saying is that it's such a superficial observation that it's barely worth the weight in gold of the electrons used to transmit the bits.
So encouraging people to be responsible and exercise self-control and self-restraint is worthless?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
About abortion, whatever the morale stance pragmatism wins. When abortion is made illegal, it happens anyway, in terrible conditions for womens with many casualties, and in foreign countries where it is legal for the ones who can afford it. So, in one hand deaths of human beings, in another destructions of embryos, which are "multicellular diploid eukaryotes in their earliest stage of development" (dixit Wikipedia)... I consider the former more serious than the latter. I have also many doubt for the future of a child who is not wanted by his/her mother. Sometimes it may be better not to be born than having a shitty life. Anyway, "Don't rape women" would be a good thing to enforce. How millions women are raped, most often by their husbands they did not want to marry, who force them to have sex? Billions maybe? Sounds to me a much more important and serious debate than abortion... question of values I presume.
When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?
You make some good points. I'd rather babies not be born into homes where they're not wanted or not able to be cared for properly even if they are wanted. In most of those cases adoption is a viable option. I'm not vying to make abortion illegal. I'm just lamenting the fact that peoples irresponsibility, lack of self-control and self-restraint and unwillingness to be "inconvenienced" makes abortion so "necessary".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun