Abortion
-
I am not the one claiming to have some magical, exclusive knowledge. I am not the one resorting to juvenile name-calling. I am not the one throwing the stones. In fact, my behavior has been more christian in this forum than yours. Cheers.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
To you? No: you plainly don't understand and your attitude sucks. Don't make demands and don't respond to any more of my posts as I will ignore you.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone. What utter moralistic bullshit. You stand does not take into account the way people are and assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
I have to correct you on this one. According to the bible, sex is acceptable for more than just procreation. It also has god's stamp of approval in the form of rape :doh: Since ryan will likely tell me I'm misinterpreting the bible again, then I would suggest he read the following biblical passages: Judges 21: 10-24, Numbers 31: 7-18, Deuteronomy 20: 10-14, Judges 5:30(this was is really awesome), Zechariah 14:1-2.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
About abortion, whatever the morale stance pragmatism wins. When abortion is made illegal, it happens anyway, in terrible conditions for womens with many casualties, and in foreign countries where it is legal for the ones who can afford it. So, in one hand deaths of human beings, in another destructions of embryos, which are "multicellular diploid eukaryotes in their earliest stage of development" (dixit Wikipedia)... I consider the former more serious than the latter. I have also many doubt for the future of a child who is not wanted by his/her mother. Sometimes it may be better not to be born than having a shitty life. Anyway, "Don't rape women" would be a good thing to enforce. How millions women are raped, most often by their husbands they did not want to marry, who force them to have sex? Billions maybe? Sounds to me a much more important and serious debate than abortion... question of values I presume.
When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?
Nicely put. +5.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that. You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
ryanb31 wrote:
I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that.
Read again. I have addressed every point you have made. Perhaps you could provide me a list of things that I have not responded to and I would be glad to do so.
ryanb31 wrote:
You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
Explain, please: "You said you didn't say things which you did say." Could it in any way be that you have misinterpreted something that I wrote? Please by all means provide me a list of things I keep changing. I would especially like to see a list of places where I "blame" you. I will gladly respond to those allegations.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
Have you?
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
LOL. Coming from you I take that as a compliment. So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braunahmed zahmed wrote:
So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
No, I don't. What I'm saying is that it's such a superficial observation that it's barely worth the weight in gold of the electrons used to transmit the bits.
-
To you? No: you plainly don't understand and your attitude sucks. Don't make demands and don't respond to any more of my posts as I will ignore you.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
ryanb31 wrote:
I gave you the play and play and you did not respond to that.
Read again. I have addressed every point you have made. Perhaps you could provide me a list of things that I have not responded to and I would be glad to do so.
ryanb31 wrote:
You said you didn't say things which you did say. You keep changing things and then trying to blame me. Juvenile indeed.
Explain, please: "You said you didn't say things which you did say." Could it in any way be that you have misinterpreted something that I wrote? Please by all means provide me a list of things I keep changing. I would especially like to see a list of places where I "blame" you. I will gladly respond to those allegations.
I wasn't, now I am, then I won't be anymore.
-
So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone. What utter moralistic bullshit. You stand does not take into account the way people are and assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
So if I'm sterile (vasectomies do work) then I can basically have sex with anyone.
None of what I said implies that at all. You're twisting my words. I didn't address the "pleasure" aspect of sex at all.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
What utter moralistic bullsh*t.
So being responsible for one's actions, exercising self-control and self-restraint is moralistic bullshit? Wow, thanks for your enlightenment.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
You stand does not take into account the way people are
Actually it does. I am saying people need to be more than they are and act more responsibly.
Mycroft Holmes wrote:
assumes that sex has only 1 function - procreation
No it doesn't assume that. You can have sex for pleasure, but you must also be cognizant of the consequences of said pleasure-taking: the possibility of creating life. If you're unwilling or unable to be responsible for that possibility, then do the responsible thing: abstain until you are willing and able.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
ahmed zahmed wrote:
So you disagree that people should be responsible about sex and if they were there'd be less abortions?
No, I don't. What I'm saying is that it's such a superficial observation that it's barely worth the weight in gold of the electrons used to transmit the bits.
So encouraging people to be responsible and exercise self-control and self-restraint is worthless?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
About abortion, whatever the morale stance pragmatism wins. When abortion is made illegal, it happens anyway, in terrible conditions for womens with many casualties, and in foreign countries where it is legal for the ones who can afford it. So, in one hand deaths of human beings, in another destructions of embryos, which are "multicellular diploid eukaryotes in their earliest stage of development" (dixit Wikipedia)... I consider the former more serious than the latter. I have also many doubt for the future of a child who is not wanted by his/her mother. Sometimes it may be better not to be born than having a shitty life. Anyway, "Don't rape women" would be a good thing to enforce. How millions women are raped, most often by their husbands they did not want to marry, who force them to have sex? Billions maybe? Sounds to me a much more important and serious debate than abortion... question of values I presume.
When they kick at your front door How you gonna come? With your hands on your head Or on the trigger of your gun?
You make some good points. I'd rather babies not be born into homes where they're not wanted or not able to be cared for properly even if they are wanted. In most of those cases adoption is a viable option. I'm not vying to make abortion illegal. I'm just lamenting the fact that peoples irresponsibility, lack of self-control and self-restraint and unwillingness to be "inconvenienced" makes abortion so "necessary".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
The real answer for abortion is being morally responsible about sex in the first place. People (men and women) need to understand that the choice is made at the time of intercourse that you will be responsible for the potential outcome: life. (Even if you're using contraception, a pregnancy is still possible. Contraception is not 100% foolproof.) Don't have sex until you're ready and able to be responsible for the possible outcome. Hence, no need for abortion to prevent an unwanted pregnancy. Don't rape women (indeed, don't rape anyone). Hence, no need for abortion because of rape. Don't have sex with your children (just another form of rape). Hence, no need for abortion because of incest. Don't have sex with someone you're not supposed to. Hence, no need for abortion because of adultery or licentious behavior. That leaves only abortion for the life & health of the mother. A relatively rare instance. In many cases, the mother would rather give her life (my wife included). Do I believe this is possible, yes. Do I believe it probable, no. Still that's the only real, viable solution. Wanton killing of babies because you are irresponsible and life is inconvenient is not a moral choice, is not a moral stance.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunI see "The Soapbox 1.0" has bled over into this forum. Could whoever's responsible please reinstate Soapbox 1?
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
-
You make some good points. I'd rather babies not be born into homes where they're not wanted or not able to be cared for properly even if they are wanted. In most of those cases adoption is a viable option. I'm not vying to make abortion illegal. I'm just lamenting the fact that peoples irresponsibility, lack of self-control and self-restraint and unwillingness to be "inconvenienced" makes abortion so "necessary".
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunI'm not saying it's ok, but what if someone just doesn't think abortion deserves all this concern? I'm not sure if I make myself clear enough... Let's say I don't give a damn, and I decide to take the abortion card everytime I find myself in a situation where we, (both the girle and the guy) didn't take all the precautions, what makes that universally wrong? Good and bad is too subjective to me, they're just opinions based on culture, and there are a lot of cultures. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying that I don't get what your point is in the end. It is an interesting debate though.
-
Wait a second. You can't claim I am not understanding when I ask you to explain and you refuse. Just because my opinion is different than your you don't have to attack me.
Last throw. a) I have no idea what your opinion is. b) I've tried to explain - if you still don't understand. Okay, one more time: Making a law changes nothing. If you have a propensity to commit crime you will still have that propensity whether or not there are laws. Here is what I said that appears to have fried your brain: "Simply making laws has not stopped the behaviour; far from it!" In other words making laws, of itself, does not stop crime; rather it simply codifies crimes such that should a criminal (in the context of the laws around at the time) be caught (by whatever means as determined by that society) it is possible for society to mete out a suitable punishment (also in the context of that society). c) I didn't attack you though you are rude and annoying - we're not here at your beck and call and if you don't understand something ask politely. Think about if you were standing in front of me: would you talk that way? Doubt it very much. Now, have a nice day.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
-
You have proof everywhere that God exists, you just ignore it. Also, what proof is there that you exist? How do we know it is not a matrix situation and you are merely a program? Just saying.
-
So encouraging people to be responsible and exercise self-control and self-restraint is worthless?
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von BraunI think that [in this forum] saying that we need to stop rape to have less abortion it's not "encouraging people to be responsible and exercise self-control"... unless you think that this forum is full of rapist. I guess that what Ravel is saying is that say "dont rape because of abortion" (or have sex) is a superficial thing because it's a simplistic way to take a problem. I don't have problem with your point of view (because deep inside it's a really obvious PoV), but I think that you should show your PoV outside this forum, in your city (and let us know the response you get, and then chat about that). Cheers!
-
I see "The Soapbox 1.0" has bled over into this forum. Could whoever's responsible please reinstate Soapbox 1?
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier - my favourite utility
I was over there yesterday (SB1.0) and it's been re-opened. But that happened after I posted this posting.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
I think that [in this forum] saying that we need to stop rape to have less abortion it's not "encouraging people to be responsible and exercise self-control"... unless you think that this forum is full of rapist. I guess that what Ravel is saying is that say "dont rape because of abortion" (or have sex) is a superficial thing because it's a simplistic way to take a problem. I don't have problem with your point of view (because deep inside it's a really obvious PoV), but I think that you should show your PoV outside this forum, in your city (and let us know the response you get, and then chat about that). Cheers!
I understand what you're saying, still nobody has made any cogent argument against what I have said. The fact that it is simplistic or obvious (or as some say, naive) doesn't negate or invalidate my statements. I do show my PoV outside this forum as well, in my city and community and most people agree with me.
If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more and become more, you are a leader." - John Quincy Adams
You must accept one of two basic premises: Either we are alone in the universe, or we are not alone in the universe. And either way, the implications are staggering” - Wernher von Braun -
Last throw. a) I have no idea what your opinion is. b) I've tried to explain - if you still don't understand. Okay, one more time: Making a law changes nothing. If you have a propensity to commit crime you will still have that propensity whether or not there are laws. Here is what I said that appears to have fried your brain: "Simply making laws has not stopped the behaviour; far from it!" In other words making laws, of itself, does not stop crime; rather it simply codifies crimes such that should a criminal (in the context of the laws around at the time) be caught (by whatever means as determined by that society) it is possible for society to mete out a suitable punishment (also in the context of that society). c) I didn't attack you though you are rude and annoying - we're not here at your beck and call and if you don't understand something ask politely. Think about if you were standing in front of me: would you talk that way? Doubt it very much. Now, have a nice day.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
They think that just words (or a slap in the hand) will prevent the crime... The problem here is that every head is a world. If not, then there wouldn't be psychologist or psychiatrist. Unless I'm missing something I didn't see (here) a real solution to prevent rape. Just talking to a teen about the responsability of having sex will not prevent him (at 100%) of doing it. It's really beautiful (and obvious) to say "dont rape, dont have sex, etc etc etc"... the real question here is how? Cheers!