Affirmative action..Why it's wrong?
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What's wrong in University of Michigan admission plan?? Bush on attack over affirmative action[^] In India, we have "reservation policy" for Women and Lower caste people, so that they can get better education and jobs(of course, that policy being misused by others that's a different story) Personally I disagree that policy, but before India's independence they were branded as "untouchables", so Gandhi made that "reservation policy" which is going on for more than 50 years. Kant Sonork-100.28114 Don't :beer: and Drive.
A totally different point of AA that I have never heard mention is this: Less QUALIFIED people get to attend and graduate. Lets say a candidate was admitted through Affirmative Action, who otherwise would not have qualified because they were simply not good enough (grades not high enough, entry test scores not high enough what have you not), to a medical school, and pulls through (barely) and makes MD... My question is.. WHAT ABOUT HIS/HER PATIENTS? They would obviously get care for a less qualified individual, who by pure academic standards would never made it into med. school in the first place? If they get hurt by this substandard care, should they be allowed to sue the college that allowed the person to attend despite being academically unsuited? In my opinion, and in this case, FAIRNESS means... "to take no consideration in any way shape and or form to a persons, skin color, gender, religion or sexual preference"... it does NOT mean "giving some people preference due to their skin color". /CMH
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The problem is you are trying to solve one problem by reversing the problem and creating a new one. That is logically flawed. "Hey, you stabbed me in the back, so I am going to stab you in the back." Correct the problem at hand, discrimination in ALL forms. It seems to be a commonly held belief that people who want to see affirmative action abolished are also giving admittance boards a big *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*. Sure, there are some who do think like that. Then there are those of us who are truly sincere and are the first ones in line to jail a few "good old boys" when we have evidence of institutionalized discrimination. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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Hey lauren, I am a non-white person who feels discrimination is wrong. Simply because I have experienced it; I don't think people who have not wronged people should have to experience the life long anger that follows. I just don't understand why people who have been discriminated against would argue to continue a practice that has the potential to perpetuate discrimination. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
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The problem is you are trying to solve one problem by reversing the problem and creating a new one. That is logically flawed. "Hey, you stabbed me in the back, so I am going to stab you in the back." Correct the problem at hand, discrimination in ALL forms. It seems to be a commonly held belief that people who want to see affirmative action abolished are also giving admittance boards a big *nudge* *nudge* *wink* *wink*. Sure, there are some who do think like that. Then there are those of us who are truly sincere and are the first ones in line to jail a few "good old boys" when we have evidence of institutionalized discrimination. Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
u do make me laugh on the one hand u criticize paul for his "naive belief that we live in a perfect world" and on the other hand u advocate we should all live happily ever after in such a perfect world discrimination exists and thats a fact ... to address the inbalance caused by history a little nudge on the opposite side will help while the rest of the human race gets its head out of its ass and sees "geeee hiring gay black women as programmers is actually cool" (assuming they can program) thinking the ship that has been sailing on the wrong course for the last 2000 years or more will magically correct itself is naive in the extreme
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
Hey lauren, I am a non-white person who feels discrimination is wrong. Simply because I have experienced it; I don't think people who have not wronged people should have to experience the life long anger that follows. I just don't understand why people who have been discriminated against would argue to continue a practice that has the potential to perpetuate discrimination. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
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u do make me laugh on the one hand u criticize paul for his "naive belief that we live in a perfect world" and on the other hand u advocate we should all live happily ever after in such a perfect world discrimination exists and thats a fact ... to address the inbalance caused by history a little nudge on the opposite side will help while the rest of the human race gets its head out of its ass and sees "geeee hiring gay black women as programmers is actually cool" (assuming they can program) thinking the ship that has been sailing on the wrong course for the last 2000 years or more will magically correct itself is naive in the extreme
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
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A totally different point of AA that I have never heard mention is this: Less QUALIFIED people get to attend and graduate. Lets say a candidate was admitted through Affirmative Action, who otherwise would not have qualified because they were simply not good enough (grades not high enough, entry test scores not high enough what have you not), to a medical school, and pulls through (barely) and makes MD... My question is.. WHAT ABOUT HIS/HER PATIENTS? They would obviously get care for a less qualified individual, who by pure academic standards would never made it into med. school in the first place? If they get hurt by this substandard care, should they be allowed to sue the college that allowed the person to attend despite being academically unsuited? In my opinion, and in this case, FAIRNESS means... "to take no consideration in any way shape and or form to a persons, skin color, gender, religion or sexual preference"... it does NOT mean "giving some people preference due to their skin color". /CMH
I believe that to give a person an i>opportunity that they would not normally have due to economic or educational background is different than making that person a doctor. If they are given the opportunity to attend, then it is up to them to succeed. It should be improper for them to say "I did not succeed because others held me back, and therefore I must be given this degree." Another question is: if you want to achieve diversity, how do you measure it? If you measure diversity by race, then there is no way to achieve diversity without using race as a factor. Dave "You can say that again." -- Dept. of Redundancy Dept.
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That makes no sense at all. Correct a problem by making it worse? Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
a man robs a bank and gets caught ... in the trial the judge says "did u rob the bank?" ... the man says "yes i did but im really sorry and i wont do it again i promise" ... the judge says "oh ok then please go home and dont do it again" NOT
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
That makes no sense at all. Correct a problem by making it worse? Tim Smith I'm going to patent thought. I have yet to see any prior art.
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So, ((2 * Wrong) == Right) Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
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Mabey I missed something....it did seem that you are pro AA. Mabey I am not following your argument. I did notice the quote "never judge another mans life until u have walked in his mocasins for 3 moons" Which is a great quote. But in this situation I would point you toward an old saying of my people. "Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin" "We are all related" Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
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So, ((2 * Wrong) == Right) Gary Kirkham A working Program is one that has only unobserved bugs I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted paychecks
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Michael Dunn wrote: "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. I agree. Wanna piss everybody off? Hold the first annual "white heterosexual male only" gathering. I suppose we brought it upon our selves, though. How many years did we partake in slavery, then later, segregation? How long did we hold the Japenese Americans in concentration camps during WWII? The US, thank God, get's a wee bit better each year toward treating everybody equally, but of course, we've still got a long way to go. Affirmative Action, though, has never been the way to do it, however, in my humble opinion. Kyosa Jamie Nordmeyer - Cho Dan Portland, Oregon, USA
Jamie Nordmeyer wrote: How many years did we partake in slavery, then later, segregation? Some whites did that is true, but blacks also sold blacks into slavery. As for myself my direct ancestors wrote the first petition to have the King abolish slavery in the colonies in 1688. My ancestor who was had a 400 acre farm in Virginia is documented as only hiring free men to work his property and paid all equal wages regardless of race in the 1840's. He also wrote you should greet any man with the same offer of you hand in freindship regardless of race and tip your hat to any lady. This is a Virginia farm owner well before the Civil War. So it was not all. "I will find a new sig someday."
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lauren wrote: and .... worse for who exactly? I don't think it makes it any worse. But I do think it does harm in that it generates resement that may not have already been there and does nothing to change what is truly in a person's heart toward others. In other words, I think it helps matain a status quo where people are forced to weigh another person's value based on race and gender. Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
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a man robs a bank and gets caught ... in the trial the judge says "did u rob the bank?" ... the man says "yes i did but im really sorry and i wont do it again i promise" ... the judge says "oh ok then please go home and dont do it again" NOT
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me'k... So who, exactly, needs to get punished here? And if that's all it is, why not just be blunt about it and *call* it punishment.
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
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Wow, Bush doing something smart for a change? *rubs eyes* I am awake right? ;) "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. And in typical political bullshit fashion, a democrat is quoted saying: "They [Republicans] have to decide whether they're for civil rights and diversity or not." Notice how he's saying that Republicans are not supporting civil rights and diversity, when they are supporting exactly that. Rights for all people, not just non-caucasians. And people wonder why my generation is so apathetic towards politics. --Mike-- I'm bored... Episode I bored. 1ClickPicGrabber - Grab & organize pictures from your favorite web pages, with 1 click! My really out-of-date homepage Sonork-100.19012 Acid_Helm
Michael Dunn wrote: "Affirmative action" is a euphemism for "discrimination against caucasians", nothing more. But the real victims, I heard, are not caucasians. Some published research shows that other minority groups, especially asians, suffered the most because of AA. Also heard people saying that asians are already over-represented when it comes to college admissions and scholarships, etc. , while blacks are under-represented. Just wondering if the same people will also try to increase the asian representation in various sports. Can you imagine NBA will pick Yao Ming just to increase diversity?
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Mabey I missed something....it did seem that you are pro AA. Mabey I am not following your argument. I did notice the quote "never judge another mans life until u have walked in his mocasins for 3 moons" Which is a great quote. But in this situation I would point you toward an old saying of my people. "Ho! Mitakuye Oyasin" "We are all related" Fill me with your knowledge, your wisdom, your coffee.
what im saying is that until ppl have a taste of what the injustice is like they are not concerned to change anything ... history has numerous examples that support this no im not in favor of discrimination of any sort ... it has caused (and still does cause) 90% of the worlds troubles to redress the balance those who have suffered must be "compensated" in some way to make them feel better and to undo the damage of the past injustices and those who have perpetrated the injustices should have a taste of their own medicine to see how it feels and hopefully make them never do it again isnt that how the criminal justice system works more or less?
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me -
u do make me laugh on the one hand u criticize paul for his "naive belief that we live in a perfect world" and on the other hand u advocate we should all live happily ever after in such a perfect world discrimination exists and thats a fact ... to address the inbalance caused by history a little nudge on the opposite side will help while the rest of the human race gets its head out of its ass and sees "geeee hiring gay black women as programmers is actually cool" (assuming they can program) thinking the ship that has been sailing on the wrong course for the last 2000 years or more will magically correct itself is naive in the extreme
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about melauren wrote: sees "geeee hiring gay black women as programmers is actually cool" Yes, but the policies now require hiring a black women as a programmer ignoring if they can read or add. That means those that do the programming have to do more and leads to hatred based on race/gender or what ever. "I will find a new sig someday."
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'k... So who, exactly, needs to get punished here? And if that's all it is, why not just be blunt about it and *call* it punishment.
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Shog9 The siren sings a lonely song - of all the wants and hungers The lust of love a brute desire - the ledge of life goes under
im not saying "punish" as such but when i hear bleating from the transgressor when they get a taste of their own medicine i think "shut the f**k up and now taste how it sux to be doing what u have been doing ... will u stop it now?" seems thats how we have built our society so why change it just cos the top cats (ie, white hetrosexual christian men) start to get a bit less than top treatment?
"traffic lights are for people who can't make their own decisions"
biz stuff about me