Shouldn't programmers know how to fix computers?
-
You mean you know how to fix your pc everytime your screen bsods? wow i just usually just use trial and error through the usual suspects to find a solution to the problem
-
I assume your are a support tech. Please forgive me if I am wrong. Developers do know how to fix their computers, the competent ones, but it is not cost-efficient to do it. If you are a tech you can probably program in one or two languages. However, a good full-time developer cranks many more lines than you a day. On the other hand, while he is doing that, you fix many more computers. Even though a programmer can fix his computer, he knows, or at least I know that my techs can do it faster than me. I am sorry if you are working with incompetent developers. But, even a good one would not waste his time with fixing a blue screen unless from experience he knows that it is faster to fix it than to call you. The difference between a bad developer and a good one is that the good one will use that time to work, no excuses no complains, and a bad one will go tell the manager that the techs messed it all up and the cat eat his source code. The programmer and the tech should act as a team. The Programmer makes sure the code is as close to perfect as possible within the time constrains, so the company is profitable, and the tech makes sure the programmer can do that without any distraction. It's called team work. I am sorry that you guys have to work with people who don't know what a shortcut is and such. They really need to asses their careers. However, please don't generalize. Respectfully, Di
I am not a support tech. The particular issue that has put me over the top is 2 co-workers who BSOD almost daily. We are a small company and do not have the IT guy readily available. All they do is complain about it, they never even look up the error. But I still stand by my point. The computer is not only a tool we use to develop it is also the platform for which our products are delivered. I don't understand the narrow-mindedness of claiming "I just write code."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
That analogy is not the same. A driver of a car is just a user of the car. I am not asking that users know how to fix computers. Programmers, on the other hand, are the ones writing code that runs on a computer so they better know something about how computers work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
This is especially not the same thing on windoze machines. It is possible I could agree with you on a linux box, but not windoze. Writing some code to run on the computer is NOT the same thing at all as using the black box code that RUNS the computer. Even your programs have black boxed code in the case of .net. And by the way, we've spent the day looking up an error code on the windoze server before. Those error codes aren't that great. (note the error codes did not come from BSOD, just error codes that prevented the server from being able to do it's job). From my experience, the msdn site isn't even sure what the error really is. It has a list of things it COULD be, but even they aren't sure. Normally when we solve the problems I've run into it had absolutely nothing to do with what the listed problems for that error code actually was. Not to mention how long that took us away from actually writing software.
If it moves, compile it
-
A guest of a restaurant is a client of the restaurant. That is the same as the person buying your software, so no, a client of a restaurant does not need to cook. The analogy does not work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
A guest of a restaurant is a client of the restaurant. That is the same as the person buying your software, so no, a client of a restaurant does not need to cook. The analogy does not work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I don't quite agree, since a SW developer bought the PC, the OS, the compiler and possibly other tools to be able to program. But yeah, the drivers/cars analogy works better.
-
I am not a support tech. The particular issue that has put me over the top is 2 co-workers who BSOD almost daily. We are a small company and do not have the IT guy readily available. All they do is complain about it, they never even look up the error. But I still stand by my point. The computer is not only a tool we use to develop it is also the platform for which our products are delivered. I don't understand the narrow-mindedness of claiming "I just write code."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
As soon as the source code for m$ is released so that I can alter and recompile it, I will not complain anymore :P Seriously though. I get very frustrated with windoze because it's not my platform. The guy who teaches me windoze at work does not get all upset over it, he even makes jokes with me about it to lift my spirits sometimes. I'm not trying to dodge work, or even keep from learning how to fix it. I actually consider it to be a big mess most of the time. However, I'm learning quickly how to operate in it, trouble shoot it, etc. That will not stop me from needing to vent when something goes wrong in a situation where I'm already confused. I vent, we work together to figure out how to fix it and move on. Some times i remember the solution, sometimes I don't. None of that takes away from my ability to write good software. A BSOD that stops me does not have anything to do with my ability to write code.
If it moves, compile it
-
m$ programmers are just users of m$ software. It's black boxed software, so it's not like we have much other choice. The fact that we are power users does not mean that we are not still users.
If it moves, compile it
-
I am not a support tech. The particular issue that has put me over the top is 2 co-workers who BSOD almost daily. We are a small company and do not have the IT guy readily available. All they do is complain about it, they never even look up the error. But I still stand by my point. The computer is not only a tool we use to develop it is also the platform for which our products are delivered. I don't understand the narrow-mindedness of claiming "I just write code."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I definitely see your point, but I don't think the problem is with developers in general. I think you should fire those guys and hire somebody who can handle the work of a small company. I started in a small company, and I know what you are talking about. The company just did not hire the right people. I still stand my point too. Good developers can fix their computers, and most of them like myself do. However, with my experience and knowledge, and I am sure this is true for most developers who really care about their art, I know how much time it takes to fix a particular error. Thus, if it takes too much time. I rather call a specialist, in this case a tech, again in a mid-size company, and let him handle it, while I borrow another computer to continue developing. No product developed, no company. Next time when they ask you to fix something, do what should be done... let them suffer until they realize it's time to learn... and learn quick. Change or die. Simple. I am not arguing against you, just arguing against generalizing developers. :)
-
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
-
At least you try. :)
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Indeed: I usually try [Ctrl]-[ALT]-[DEL]. Happily this works most of the time. I still don't know why ;P
-
I can't think why, but you make me think of cactus... 20+ years ago when I came into the PROFESSION there was a lot of cross over between hardware and software. It made life an elephant pain. Today we don't have to worry what the media is, we use it. Imagine rewriting your code because a new disk has been installed. It sucked. Big chunks. Today, we let the hardware boys deal with their voodoo. Their job is to make sure it works. Our job is to make sure we use it well.
Panic, Chaos, Destruction. My work here is done. Drink. Get drunk. Fall over - P O'H OK, I will win to day or my name isn't Ethel Crudacre! - DD Ethel Crudacre I cannot live by bread alone. Bacon and ketchup are needed as well. - Trollslayer Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb - they're often *students*, for heaven's sake - Terry Pratchett
If you don't understand something it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to use it well. Understanding hardware isn't as critical as it used to be, but it is still important if you want to use it well.
-
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I would like it if all developers would learn how to use computers. I work with a bunch of programmers that can't even figure out how to copy and paste. Granite they are all in their sixties. But still they should at at least know the basics. They do come from a main frame environment so I understand the learning curve. But you would think after a year or so they would figure out the basics of a mouse. They have all been using windows now for over 10 years and they still haven't figured out the basics. I do agree that programmers should be able to fix their computers but I think some need to start with just figuring out the basics of how the computer works first. I guess I am just frustrated with old developers that don't want to learn anything new and are just waiting for retirement. Most of them got into the field for the money and not because they loved it.
-
Fixed your title What drives me even more bonkers are developers who don't know how to put a shortcut to an app on the desktop. :doh: True story, that.
Please don't ever put an icon on my desktop. I can't stand programs that put an icon on my desktop like Google Earth. Then every time there is an update/upgrade, they update the desktop icon that I removed. If I wanted clutter, I would use somebody else's computer. My desktop is sacred space for a very few select icons... I use my start bar or quick launch to find things, but don't assume I want them on my desktop. Hogan
-
I am not a support tech. The particular issue that has put me over the top is 2 co-workers who BSOD almost daily. We are a small company and do not have the IT guy readily available. All they do is complain about it, they never even look up the error. But I still stand by my point. The computer is not only a tool we use to develop it is also the platform for which our products are delivered. I don't understand the narrow-mindedness of claiming "I just write code."
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Have you considered that he claim "I just write code" is backed by your developers' contract? Does their contract state they have to take care of their infrastructure and set up and maintain all required hard- and software? If yes they're not fulfilling their contract. If no, you're having unreasonable expectations.
-
Does it drive anyone else bonkers when developers keep complaining about their windows PC blue screening? If you know how to program why can't you figure out how to fix your own computer, or at least start researching?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Having to play sysadmin is a distraction from coding. Not that I can't fix my own machine if necessary (sometimes I use a M-79), but I'd rather not have to do so.
When posting here, I do not represent anybody but myself.
-
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Most automobiles have many computerized systems in them. Do you expect the mechanic to be a computer technician?
Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. In at least so far that he knows how to run a diagnostic on those computerized system. If he can't do that, then he isn't qualified to work on my car, and he should stick to fixing VW's ;)
Mark Nischalke wrote:
Do you expect them to be a materials engineer to determine why the brake pads have worn out?
No, but I do expect him to be able to tell me that the brake pads are indeed worn out, not just simply "Uh, your car won't stop.... I don't know why!"
Mark Nischalke wrote:
So you expect anyone who programs computers to also be a hardware technician?
So, by definition, a programmer is someone who makes a computer system do his bidding. Whether it be via a provided API, or direct to metal, makes no difference. If something goes wrong, I expect them to be able to find the problem, even if it turns out that the problem lies in the API... ie, if a "programmer" ever came to me and said "It doesn't work... I don't know why!", he loses all credibility in my eyes In short, I don't expect the programmer to fix the hardware issue, or the driver issue either. Just to be able to point to it, and say "This is what is causing the problem... Can you help me fix it?"
HuntrCkr wrote:
So, by definition, a programmer is someone who makes a computer system do his bidding
Optional definitions I found of programmer, software engineer, etc : --------------------------------------------------------------------------- One who prepares or writes instructional programs. a person who designs and writes and tests computer programs a person who writes a program so that data may be processed by a computer Computer science: --------------------------------------------------------------------- the branch of engineering science that studies (with the aid of computers) computable processes and structures Computer User: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ a person who uses computers for work or entertainment or communication or business
If it moves, compile it
-
I would expect any tradesman to know how to maintain the tools he works with. I wouldn't hire a carpenter with blunt chisels to put in a new kitchen. So why should a programmer be any different? Their PC is the primary tool they need to do their work so they should at least know the basics of how to maintain it.
-
No one is suggesting developers debug drivers. But how can you create a program and hand it over to a customer when you don't even know how a computer works? At least the basics. You can't run to IT every time you run into an external issue causing your code not to work.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
when you don't even know how a computer works? At least the basics.
This isn't what the thread was implying at all. Knowing how a computer works, and the basics, does not involve being able to fix a blue screen.....
ryanb31 wrote:
You can't run to IT every time you run into an external issue causing your code not to work.
This is also not what your thread was saying.
If it moves, compile it
-
Please don't ever put an icon on my desktop. I can't stand programs that put an icon on my desktop like Google Earth. Then every time there is an update/upgrade, they update the desktop icon that I removed. If I wanted clutter, I would use somebody else's computer. My desktop is sacred space for a very few select icons... I use my start bar or quick launch to find things, but don't assume I want them on my desktop. Hogan
Amen, brother!!
-
It states pretty clearly what to do[^]. If you get a software error that points you towards a specific file, what are you going to do? My guess is google information on that file. This error screen names a specific file, google it and it will point you towards the proper piece of hardware, from there you can google drivers. It's almost identical to getting an error about a missing dll, and finding out what you need to install to get that dll.
Yeah. I've had a computer blue screen on an mp3 player. We took out the mp3 player after following options. Still got the blue screen. My point is, instructions (in that scenerio) were followed and did nothing. Most of the blue screens I've encountered at work have also not been fixed by the instructions on that screen. Every blue screen I've encountered at work has resulted in a re-install/ or repair by the install disk. That screen is useless to me.
If it moves, compile it
