Random Thoughts on Time Travel
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So I've been watching a certain TV show that has recently (recently to me, the show has been over for a while now) delved into the topic of time travel. In this time travel scenario, a group of people are forced through time (forward and backward) but they always end up in the same geographical location when they do so. This made me think about other shows and movies that deal with time travel as well, and most of them have the same concept of time travel. However, this got me thinking about time and space. The earth is constantly spinning and orbiting the sun (69K MPH), the sun is moving through the galaxy and orbiting the galactic center (505K MPH), and the galaxy is moving through the universe (1,339K MPH). So if I were to move forward through time by 5 minutes, and end up occupying the exact same space as I had before I moved through time, the earth would be about 160K miles away from me (not even accounting for universal expansion). So to create an effective time machine (absurdity and feasibility aside), it couldn't purely move through time, it would have to travel through time AND space simultaneously. Thank goodness the good Dr. has already figured this out with his TARDIS, which is the only show I can think of that even begins to address this issue.
Be The Noise
PROOF: Man never gains the ability to travel through time. Fact #1: If man at some future date gained the ability to time travel then eventually some crackpot would gain said ability. Fact #3: The crackpot would screw with us - probably enslave us. Fact #2: We've not been screwed with by time travelers. Therefore, man never will develop the ability to time travel.
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PROOF: Man never gains the ability to travel through time. Fact #1: If man at some future date gained the ability to time travel then eventually some crackpot would gain said ability. Fact #3: The crackpot would screw with us - probably enslave us. Fact #2: We've not been screwed with by time travelers. Therefore, man never will develop the ability to time travel.
Yes, or you could put some sort of stipulation in your will that requires your descendants to come back and tell you. I also believe that time travel as envisioned in such stories will never be achieved. Probably not teleportion either.
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PROOF: Man never gains the ability to travel through time. Fact #1: If man at some future date gained the ability to time travel then eventually some crackpot would gain said ability. Fact #3: The crackpot would screw with us - probably enslave us. Fact #2: We've not been screwed with by time travelers. Therefore, man never will develop the ability to time travel.
either that, or the future holds things that are so interesting that no one bothers to come back this far for the boring stuff. ;P
Be The Noise
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So I've been watching a certain TV show that has recently (recently to me, the show has been over for a while now) delved into the topic of time travel. In this time travel scenario, a group of people are forced through time (forward and backward) but they always end up in the same geographical location when they do so. This made me think about other shows and movies that deal with time travel as well, and most of them have the same concept of time travel. However, this got me thinking about time and space. The earth is constantly spinning and orbiting the sun (69K MPH), the sun is moving through the galaxy and orbiting the galactic center (505K MPH), and the galaxy is moving through the universe (1,339K MPH). So if I were to move forward through time by 5 minutes, and end up occupying the exact same space as I had before I moved through time, the earth would be about 160K miles away from me (not even accounting for universal expansion). So to create an effective time machine (absurdity and feasibility aside), it couldn't purely move through time, it would have to travel through time AND space simultaneously. Thank goodness the good Dr. has already figured this out with his TARDIS, which is the only show I can think of that even begins to address this issue.
Be The Noise
I'm guessing if they figured out time travel, then they figured out how to do it properly. Just like we don't crash cars into buildings... well, most of the time. I'm sure there will be some mishaps with time travel also. Maybe the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was really a time machine that miscalculated over the course of 100 million years? The velocity made the impact appear like something a lot larger but slower moving was the cause.
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
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No, because you would 'tied' to that particular point in space, and that space would be moving with you. Simple extrapolation of Special Relativity.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
...damn... you made my brain explode
Be The Noise
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One could argue the Pauli Exclusion Principle would not let that happen.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
You go first. :-D
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So I've been watching a certain TV show that has recently (recently to me, the show has been over for a while now) delved into the topic of time travel. In this time travel scenario, a group of people are forced through time (forward and backward) but they always end up in the same geographical location when they do so. This made me think about other shows and movies that deal with time travel as well, and most of them have the same concept of time travel. However, this got me thinking about time and space. The earth is constantly spinning and orbiting the sun (69K MPH), the sun is moving through the galaxy and orbiting the galactic center (505K MPH), and the galaxy is moving through the universe (1,339K MPH). So if I were to move forward through time by 5 minutes, and end up occupying the exact same space as I had before I moved through time, the earth would be about 160K miles away from me (not even accounting for universal expansion). So to create an effective time machine (absurdity and feasibility aside), it couldn't purely move through time, it would have to travel through time AND space simultaneously. Thank goodness the good Dr. has already figured this out with his TARDIS, which is the only show I can think of that even begins to address this issue.
Be The Noise
As someone pointed out (however jokingly), space and time are both relative. Futhermore they are coupled variables. For example if you say you will time travel back 1000 years you have given the time relativity of now and are targetting 1000 years ago. Instead you could say you will time travel to 1012 which has a relativity of our calander start date. Same goes for spacial positioning. You need a reference point. Simply put, if one could time travel they could also travel from point A to point B in no time. Therefore they could position themselves where ever need be when ever need be. Most theories around faster than light travel deal with worm holes. The same would be true for "time" travel in that time bends in on itself and you would just step through to the other point (a time and a space location)
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Look, we already talked about this tomorrow.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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...damn... you made my brain explode
Be The Noise
It is easier to think about it if you deal with a smaller universe, a four dimensional one, then as you travel laterally through time one is fixed to a point on the hypersurface of the present. All time runs forward and backward from any point in a manifold. The point on this surface is fixed, so no matter how far forward or back in time you travel there is no spatial transfer, the space occupied moves correspondingly to the point vector of the temporal cone. (Of course one has to accept the non euclidean nature of space, otherwise it all falls apart!)
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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I'm guessing if they figured out time travel, then they figured out how to do it properly. Just like we don't crash cars into buildings... well, most of the time. I'm sure there will be some mishaps with time travel also. Maybe the asteroid that killed the dinosaurs was really a time machine that miscalculated over the course of 100 million years? The velocity made the impact appear like something a lot larger but slower moving was the cause.
Brad If you think you can, you will. If you think you can't, you won't. Either way, you're right.
Time travel has not yet been invented or we'd be overwhelmed with obnoxious tourists form tomorrow. Besides, you can't travel backwards past the point that time travel is made to work. Or so my future great-great-great-great-great-grandson told me next week.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
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You go first. :-D
As an extension to the normal understanding of the PEP, wherein no particle in the universe may occupy the same quantum state as any other particle. So if a new particle is formed (in a particle accelerator for example) then it instantly has to compareitself with EVERY SINGLE PARTICLE in the universe so as to make sure it conforms to the PEP. Given that particles cannot occupy the same quantum state then they also cannot occupy the same space time, so at any moment you stop whilst time travelling then all the particles would compare themselves with those there and if there was any in the samespace then you would be phase shifted.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
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No, because you would 'tied' to that particular point in space, and that space would be moving with you. Simple extrapolation of Special Relativity.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
Dalek Dave wrote:
that space would be moving with you
Awesome, but I think you forgot about the total perspective vortex
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS My LinkedIn Profile
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Time travel has not yet been invented or we'd be overwhelmed with obnoxious tourists form tomorrow. Besides, you can't travel backwards past the point that time travel is made to work. Or so my future great-great-great-great-great-grandson told me next week.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
Or as the Louisiana Cajuns say, "See you a while ago!"
WE ARE DYSLEXIC OF BORG. Refutance is systile. Your a$$ will be laminated. There are 10 kinds of people in the world: People who know binary and people who don't.
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So I've been watching a certain TV show that has recently (recently to me, the show has been over for a while now) delved into the topic of time travel. In this time travel scenario, a group of people are forced through time (forward and backward) but they always end up in the same geographical location when they do so. This made me think about other shows and movies that deal with time travel as well, and most of them have the same concept of time travel. However, this got me thinking about time and space. The earth is constantly spinning and orbiting the sun (69K MPH), the sun is moving through the galaxy and orbiting the galactic center (505K MPH), and the galaxy is moving through the universe (1,339K MPH). So if I were to move forward through time by 5 minutes, and end up occupying the exact same space as I had before I moved through time, the earth would be about 160K miles away from me (not even accounting for universal expansion). So to create an effective time machine (absurdity and feasibility aside), it couldn't purely move through time, it would have to travel through time AND space simultaneously. Thank goodness the good Dr. has already figured this out with his TARDIS, which is the only show I can think of that even begins to address this issue.
Be The Noise
Well, If time travel in a backward direction is possible without a receiver, then surely someone would have popped back to tell us? They haven't so it isn't. (or, if possible, humans don't invent it, or only ever go back to about 32 BC) However, Time travel in any direction may be possible with a transmitter and receiver - and obviously you can't go back in time further than the point at when the receiver is invented and built. The location of that receiver would, one presumes, be fixed relative to some location (be that in a garage in someone's house, a university or orbiting the earth) So - no problem. Of course, there could be an issue that, relative to one another, the transmitter and receiver could be traveling at thousands of miles per hour - which would explain two things. 0. Why we have met no time travellers 1. What that greasy, brownish stain is in that garage next to that pile of slightly melted scrap.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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As an extension to the normal understanding of the PEP, wherein no particle in the universe may occupy the same quantum state as any other particle. So if a new particle is formed (in a particle accelerator for example) then it instantly has to compareitself with EVERY SINGLE PARTICLE in the universe so as to make sure it conforms to the PEP. Given that particles cannot occupy the same quantum state then they also cannot occupy the same space time, so at any moment you stop whilst time travelling then all the particles would compare themselves with those there and if there was any in the samespace then you would be phase shifted.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
It still sounds like BS to me... prove it.
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either that, or the future holds things that are so interesting that no one bothers to come back this far for the boring stuff. ;P
Be The Noise
Karl Sanford wrote:
boring stuff
Not even to gather genetic material to clone Salma Hayek? :confused:
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Becasue the TARDIS travels through the vortex, where time and space are one! And of course for what TARDIS stands for; Time And Relative Dimensions In Space. As one moves through one, one moves through the other. Then of course you have to remember that you are already moving through time. You are travelling forward in time at one second per second, and yet also moving through space at the same time. You are locked onto a multidimensional framework, and movement through space is movement through time also. (This is proven by flying atomic clocks around the world and noting the differences, or by the fact that the geostaionary GPS satellites are constantly being updated to cancel out the relativity) So if movement through space is a movement through time, then it follows that movement through time necessitates a movement through space. Therefore ones position in the space-time continuum is constistant regardless of how far into future or past.
--------------------------------- I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave CCC Link[^] English League Tables - Live
I relished this explanation of the pickle, Dave, but one question nags me: how then did my head exit me mother's body at the moment of my so-called "birth" in this human form ? Is it possible I am still in utero, even now ? best, Bill
"Humans are amphibians ... half spirit and half animal ... as spirits they belong to the eternal world, but as animals they inhabit time. This means that while their spirit can be directed to an eternal object, their bodies, passions, and imaginations are in continual change, for to be in time, means to change. Their nearest approach to constancy, therefore, is undulation: the repeated return to a level from which they repeatedly fall back, a series of troughs and peaks.” C.S. Lewis
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Time travel has not yet been invented or we'd be overwhelmed with obnoxious tourists form tomorrow. Besides, you can't travel backwards past the point that time travel is made to work. Or so my future great-great-great-great-great-grandson told me next week.
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." Red Adair. nils illegitimus carborundum me, me, me
mark merrens wrote:
you can't travel backwards past the point that time travel is made to work
That makes no sense.
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Well, If time travel in a backward direction is possible without a receiver, then surely someone would have popped back to tell us? They haven't so it isn't. (or, if possible, humans don't invent it, or only ever go back to about 32 BC) However, Time travel in any direction may be possible with a transmitter and receiver - and obviously you can't go back in time further than the point at when the receiver is invented and built. The location of that receiver would, one presumes, be fixed relative to some location (be that in a garage in someone's house, a university or orbiting the earth) So - no problem. Of course, there could be an issue that, relative to one another, the transmitter and receiver could be traveling at thousands of miles per hour - which would explain two things. 0. Why we have met no time travellers 1. What that greasy, brownish stain is in that garage next to that pile of slightly melted scrap.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
_Maxxx_ wrote:
Time travel in any direction may be possible with a transmitter and receiver
That makes no sense. We don't need them for traveling through space, we don't even need vehicles except in certain environments. If time travel is possible we will not need machines to do it (just as we don't for traveling at our current rate).