Is it wrong...
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put it in terms they can understand. "no signy = no redesigny"
Common sense is not a gift it's a curse. Those of us who have it have to deal with those that don't.... Be careful which toes you step on today, they might be connected to the foot that kicks your butt tomorrow. You can't scare me, I have children.
He will say no signy->no redesigny-> no money although if this is the case you better loose the money than be a slave for free.
Alberto Bar-Noy --------------- “The city’s central computer told you? R2D2, you know better than to trust a strange computer!” (C3PO)
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages
I have done something like that in Gears of war 3 :)
“Be at war with your vices, at peace with your neighbors, and let every new year find you a better man or woman.”
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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Yeah, Agile rescued me from a burning building, cured cancer, gave a loving home to 4 orphans, paid down the national debt, and still had time create a killer app. ...seriously, breakdowns like this can happen everywhere, no matter what process or tools you use. I would recommend that you read "No Silver Bullet" by Frederick Brooks (PDF)[^]
Be The Noise
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Unfortunately, with any method, including Agile, this can be a problem. The OP stated the client denies signing off, etc. There is no methodology to deal with lying clients. You should always get a 50% deposit upfront before any work begins.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Been there, done it and got a T-Shirt. :) I don't envy you! Good luck.
VS2010/Atmel Studio 6.0 ToDo Manager Extension
Version 3.0 now available. There is no place like 127.0.0.1 -
Unfortunately, with any method, including Agile, this can be a problem. The OP stated the client denies signing off, etc. There is no methodology to deal with lying clients. You should always get a 50% deposit upfront before any work begins.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
There is no methodology to deal with lying clients.
I think you'll find................[^]
Henry Minute Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is. Cogito ergo thumb - Sucking my thumb helps me to think.
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Who said anything about the methodology and would any solve the problem with the user not acknowledging any requirements or design?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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ryanb31 wrote:
There is no methodology to deal with lying clients.
I think you'll find................[^]
Henry Minute Girl: (staring) "Why do you need an icy cucumber?" “I want to report a fraud. The government is lying to us all.” I wouldn't let CG touch my Abacus! When you're wrestling a gorilla, you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is. Cogito ergo thumb - Sucking my thumb helps me to think.
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I agree entirely. If you insist on coding in a waterfall, you're going to run many more risks - including damage to your computer equipment as the water pours into the back of it.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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Yeah, Agile rescued me from a burning building, cured cancer, gave a loving home to 4 orphans, paid down the national debt, and still had time create a killer app. ...seriously, breakdowns like this can happen everywhere, no matter what process or tools you use. I would recommend that you read "No Silver Bullet" by Frederick Brooks (PDF)[^]
Be The Noise
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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Unfortunately, with any method, including Agile, this can be a problem. The OP stated the client denies signing off, etc. There is no methodology to deal with lying clients. You should always get a 50% deposit upfront before any work begins.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Agreed - don't dispute the OP's view, but the client may have an equally valid view of the world. I was called in to look into a similar situation, and I found that neither "side" was lying. Waterfall requires "sides" and while it works well lots of times, it doesn't guarantee that the parties won't finish up accusing teh other of lying.
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Who said anything about the methodology and would any solve the problem with the user not acknowledging any requirements or design?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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What is not written does not exist. Have you protocolled the meetingsd, and have him signed the specifications ?
Did you read the part about the client refusing to acknowledge the signoff ?
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
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I agree entirely. If you insist on coding in a waterfall, you're going to run many more risks - including damage to your computer equipment as the water pours into the back of it.
*pre-emptive celebratory nipple tassle jiggle* - Sean Ewington
"Mind bleach! Send me mind bleach!" - Nagy Vilmos
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier
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...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Mark Nischalke wrote:
I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Forget wearing it. Setup one in the corner of the room on a tripod and tell them what it's for. It will seriously keep them VERY honest.
A guide to posting questions on CodeProject[^]
Dave Kreskowiak -
...to want to rip the arms off your client and beat them with the bloody appendages? I'd say beat them senseless, but they already are. Four months of requirements, design, coding, testing and multiple review sessions and now, once in production, the client wants a major redesign and flatly refuses to acknowledge sign-off on requirements and design, even denies any meetings or conversations that have taken place regarding the functionality. I'm seriously considering wearing a video camera and microphone any time I'm with the client.
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
Don't you have written minutes of the meetings, email records and tracable sign-off documents with their name on it? If not, that's pretty dumb ... but if they persist in making impossible demands, tell them that if they don't pay you for phase 1 you own the IP and demand that they take the production system down, and walk away from any payment for the next phase.
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Sorry - maybe you didn't use Waterfall, but I was suggesting the Waterfall type methods that require agreement on requirements can lead to the type of problems you experienced. That is all.
Are you saying that agile does not require or expect requirements or design to be approved? :confused:
Failure is not an option; it's the default selection.
