Vaccinations
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ryanb31 wrote:
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations.
I bet if you looked around you could find a child that was killed in a automobile accident after getting immunized as well. Same causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
That of course has nothing to do with your previous assertion. Do you know anyone that has died of measles, whooping cough or polio? Those of course are the "side effects" of not getting immunized. Proven side effects.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect
Actually quite a well popular study that showed that in the UK. Of course the doctor that did it was being paid in connection with a lawyer that was looking to sue for companies for autism. The research was later withdrawn and the doctor is currently under criminal indictment in the UK. Is that the "study" you had in mind? There are no reputable studies that show that. There are in fact reputable studies (plural) that show it isn't true.
ryanb31 wrote:
A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year
Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
Have you ever heard of google? When someone understands how to use it, to really use it, one can actually find reliable information versus alarmist lies. Following is one excellent article not only because it is fully available on the internet but because it addresses (presumably) some of those specific studies that you claim exist. http://immunizenow.org/shared/content/takeyourbestshot/Adolescent%20Immunization%20Toolkits/Influenza%20Resources/Flu%20Info%20for%20providers/Vaccines%20and%20autism.pdf[^] However there are many other articles as well.
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There are no reputable studies that show that.
Not according to your definition of reputable.
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Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
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Have you ever heard of google?
I do. Here, let me help you. Click here.[^] Then you quote an article on immunizenow.org. Really? Really? ImmunizeNow.org? That is your reputable source? Wow.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Calling anyone who thinks they are not safe loonies and crazies and the such.
Quite clear that they are. Immunizations can have side effects. Autism is not one of them. I am rather certain that more children die and are seriously injured by being driven to school by their parents than via immunizations. By your logic those parents should be hiring professional drivers.
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ryanb31 wrote:
You're wrong, but I respect your right to believe that.
So if I want my child to learn how to use guns it is ok if I let them shoot your child in the process?
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ryanb31 wrote:
I have seen a healthy young girl become autistic because of vaccinations.
There is NO causality. It has been PROVEN that there is no causality. Immunizations to NOT pose a risk for autism. Period.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have also seen a young man who played quarterback in high school become a schizophrenia from vaccinations.
Nonsense. I can only suppose that you do not understand causality. Alternatively provide a medical journal article that shows a risk from the specific immunization with that specific effect.
ryanb31 wrote:
But don't do you dare call my a selfish "a**hole" because I love my kids the same as you and therefore I choose not to vaccinate them.
I am sure that parents such as the following thought that they were doing their children a favor as well. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/70/4/582.short[^]
I have seen it. You can Google all day long and try to pretend like it does not happen, but I have seen it with mine own eyes. Twice. Get some hard evidence. All you have is research done by the medical industry. No wonder you can't see the truth.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/doctors-unite-to-smash-the-anti-vaccine-group/comments-e6freuy9-1226431497313[^] This is the link to the paper article.
I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly "I have sexdaily. I mean dyslexia. Fcuk!" Driven to the arms of Heineken by the wife
Thanks, I commented.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Does any of the lunatics have any solid proof that these vaccines are bad?
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations. What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Bloody hell. What a pile of crap. Let me explain some things here 1 - correlation is not causality. Vaccinations occur before it's possible to know if someone is autistic. The child was already autistic. This is because: 2 - you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations.
I bet if you looked around you could find a child that was killed in a automobile accident after getting immunized as well. Same causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
That of course has nothing to do with your previous assertion. Do you know anyone that has died of measles, whooping cough or polio? Those of course are the "side effects" of not getting immunized. Proven side effects.
I wish I could 12 this instead of 5ing it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ftfy Proven possible side effects.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Yes, that's right. If you get immunised, then the possibility of dying of a preventable disease is greatly diminished. That's why we do it. And the correlation is far greater than the random correlation you find because you look for it, with autism.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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the loonies who think vaccinations cause autism, etc.
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect but I have seen it first hand. A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year. Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Correlation is not causality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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There are no reputable studies that show that.
Not according to your definition of reputable.
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Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
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Have you ever heard of google?
I do. Here, let me help you. Click here.[^] Then you quote an article on immunizenow.org. Really? Really? ImmunizeNow.org? That is your reputable source? Wow.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not according to your definition of reputable.
his definition is the scientific one. It means a study that was done where the methods are published and subject to peer review. It's the ONLY definition.
ryanb31 wrote:
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
Correlation is not causality. People get sick all the time. Some people are autistic, but autism is not evident from birth ( there are some potential indicators, if you look for them, but it's not evident ). It IS true that a small number of people get sick when immunised. A much larger number of people die from not being immunised. That is the trade off, it's not a perfect world. But no child has ever 'caught autism', not from a vaccination, a toilet seat, or a blow to the head.
ryanb31 wrote:
The great thing about the web is that if you search not for the facts, but for studies that prove your point of view, you're bound to find something. That's because science is the new religion, you need the blessing of science and not the gods to convince people nowadays, so anyone with an axe to grind, will come up with a 'study'.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Bloody hell. What a pile of crap. Let me explain some things here 1 - correlation is not causality. Vaccinations occur before it's possible to know if someone is autistic. The child was already autistic. This is because: 2 - you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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nothing can cause it.
How intelligent. I have seen it happen, more than once. The girl was not autistic. She was 12 when this happened. And the young man I know who had the similar issue was 20 when it happened.
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here is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity
You even admit no one knows everything about it, yet you claim to know it can't develop from chemicals in the body.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Yes, that's right. If you get immunised, then the possibility of dying of a preventable disease is greatly diminished. That's why we do it. And the correlation is far greater than the random correlation you find because you look for it, with autism.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Are you a father? If so, you are telling me that you would rather risk a mental disorder or even death for your child just so they don't get the flu? If that is the case, fine, you're doing the best you can. I disagree but I don't hate you for it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Correlation is not causality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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nothing can cause it.
How intelligent. I have seen it happen, more than once. The girl was not autistic. She was 12 when this happened. And the young man I know who had the similar issue was 20 when it happened.
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here is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity
You even admit no one knows everything about it, yet you claim to know it can't develop from chemicals in the body.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Again, correlation is not causality. There are things we're learning about the nature of autism, but we know it's caused in the womb, there's no question of that. I've read widely on autism and my wife works with autistic children. My knowledge goes a little deeper than the sort of pseudo science spread by vaccination scare mongers. I'm sorry you know someone whose autism was discovered at 12, but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact. Proven facts trump personal experience mixed with conjecture. That's how science works. Are you claiming that because we don't know everything about something, that we must know nothing ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Not according to your definition of reputable.
his definition is the scientific one. It means a study that was done where the methods are published and subject to peer review. It's the ONLY definition.
ryanb31 wrote:
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
Correlation is not causality. People get sick all the time. Some people are autistic, but autism is not evident from birth ( there are some potential indicators, if you look for them, but it's not evident ). It IS true that a small number of people get sick when immunised. A much larger number of people die from not being immunised. That is the trade off, it's not a perfect world. But no child has ever 'caught autism', not from a vaccination, a toilet seat, or a blow to the head.
ryanb31 wrote:
The great thing about the web is that if you search not for the facts, but for studies that prove your point of view, you're bound to find something. That's because science is the new religion, you need the blessing of science and not the gods to convince people nowadays, so anyone with an axe to grind, will come up with a 'study'.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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his definition is the scientific one.
Thank you for proving my point. Has science ever been wrong?
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not evident from birth
Do you even know anyone autistic? You are full of it. I have some good friends who have had 2 autistic children and the doctor, not a "lunatic", told them they were autistic.
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A much larger number of people die from not being immunised.
Not in the US.
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the facts,
I'm telling you I have seen it, if you search Google you'll see there are many, many people who make the same claim. We're all lying? Oh, to be as smart as you. If we could all be so lucky.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Are you a father? If so, you are telling me that you would rather risk a mental disorder or even death for your child just so they don't get the flu? If that is the case, fine, you're doing the best you can. I disagree but I don't hate you for it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I don't hate you, I'm just incredulous. Yes, I have two kids and both had their vaccinations. As I said, my wife deals with autistic children in her job, and she works with people who are professionally involved, and they have never suggested that any autistic child they saw, was that way because of a vaccination, nor is there any evidence to suggest that might be true. Anecdotes are not evidence, that a child is autistic and had a vaccination, does not prove that vaccinations caused it. It's only because of a flawed study that has been discredited that people would even make that connection. Would I rather my child have a tiny risk of a side effect than a much larger risk of dying or being really sick ? Yes. Am I selfish enough to make my child a carrier to lower his/her risk of a vaccination side effect and allow others to risk that side effect to create the herd immunity I'd be counting on while weakening it ? No. I'd rather that everyone get vaccinated to not bring back a world where the average life expectancy is 40, and high infant mortality from now preventable diseases was the main reason for that. I am just incredulous that someone on a programming site could fall for such ignorance, I presume on the basis of not doing any real research beyond listening to the media that is designed to spread what is a lie.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Again, correlation is not causality. There are things we're learning about the nature of autism, but we know it's caused in the womb, there's no question of that. I've read widely on autism and my wife works with autistic children. My knowledge goes a little deeper than the sort of pseudo science spread by vaccination scare mongers. I'm sorry you know someone whose autism was discovered at 12, but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact. Proven facts trump personal experience mixed with conjecture. That's how science works. Are you claiming that because we don't know everything about something, that we must know nothing ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact.
It is not a proven fact. If it were a proven fact I would not have been able to witness it. At one point in history, it was a proven fact that the earth was flat. Doctors used to encourage patients to smoke, and that was only 60 years ago!! You think you are so smart because of some scientific study funded by the medical industry that even when someone says they have witnessed it you still claim it can't be true. This quote describes you to a T. "Why is it that when you tell a man there are 400 billion stars he will believe you, but when you tell him there's wet paint he has to touch it?"
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Correlation is not causality.
Very good. And?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Therefore, a child I know had her autism found after a vaccination, does not prove the vaccination caused it. In the absence of any proven mechanism to cause autism at all, it's a spurious claim at best.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I don't hate you, I'm just incredulous. Yes, I have two kids and both had their vaccinations. As I said, my wife deals with autistic children in her job, and she works with people who are professionally involved, and they have never suggested that any autistic child they saw, was that way because of a vaccination, nor is there any evidence to suggest that might be true. Anecdotes are not evidence, that a child is autistic and had a vaccination, does not prove that vaccinations caused it. It's only because of a flawed study that has been discredited that people would even make that connection. Would I rather my child have a tiny risk of a side effect than a much larger risk of dying or being really sick ? Yes. Am I selfish enough to make my child a carrier to lower his/her risk of a vaccination side effect and allow others to risk that side effect to create the herd immunity I'd be counting on while weakening it ? No. I'd rather that everyone get vaccinated to not bring back a world where the average life expectancy is 40, and high infant mortality from now preventable diseases was the main reason for that. I am just incredulous that someone on a programming site could fall for such ignorance, I presume on the basis of not doing any real research beyond listening to the media that is designed to spread what is a lie.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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nor is there any evidence to suggest that might be true.
There is so much evidence, I even pointed you to the google search which showed the results and you still deny it. That's fine. The risk is not high, but it is there.
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any real research
I have 5 kids. We have researched this beyond what you know. I have seen both sides of the argument. You have only seen the one side. How can you make a logical decision based on that.
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any real research
Eyewitness. How more real can you get.
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listening to the media
I don't even own a TV. If I had to guess the media is all for vaccinations so what is that supposed to mean?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.