Vaccinations
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the loonies who think vaccinations cause autism, etc.
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect but I have seen it first hand. A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year. Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect
Actually quite a well popular study that showed that in the UK. Of course the doctor that did it was being paid in connection with a lawyer that was looking to sue for companies for autism. The research was later withdrawn and the doctor is currently under criminal indictment in the UK. Is that the "study" you had in mind? There are no reputable studies that show that. There are in fact reputable studies (plural) that show it isn't true.
ryanb31 wrote:
A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year
Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
Have you ever heard of google? When someone understands how to use it, to really use it, one can actually find reliable information versus alarmist lies. Following is one excellent article not only because it is fully available on the internet but because it addresses (presumably) some of those specific studies that you claim exist. http://immunizenow.org/shared/content/takeyourbestshot/Adolescent%20Immunization%20Toolkits/Influenza%20Resources/Flu%20Info%20for%20providers/Vaccines%20and%20autism.pdf[^] However there are many other articles as well.
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I don't think anyone claims they are perfectly safe.
It seemed like that is what some of them were saying. Calling anyone who thinks they are not safe loonies and crazies and the such.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Calling anyone who thinks they are not safe loonies and crazies and the such.
Quite clear that they are. Immunizations can have side effects. Autism is not one of them. I am rather certain that more children die and are seriously injured by being driven to school by their parents than via immunizations. By your logic those parents should be hiring professional drivers.
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I agree, swimming is not 100% safe. But would you flagrantly criticize someone who chooses to not let their kids swim because of their beliefs? It's fine for you to vaccinate your kids. That is your right. But you seem very upset over those who disagree with you.
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I have a hard time understanding how any educated person
That's an ironic statement. Everyone that I know personally who is against vaccines has done a lot of research. The more research you do on vaccines the more you see how high the risks are. You're right in that more disease may be prevented than caused by vaccines but the risk is still there. Why hate on those that aren't willing to take that risk for their kids?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I agree, swimming is not 100% safe. But would you flagrantly criticize someone who chooses to not let their kids swim because of their beliefs?
Specious. EVERYTHING has a risk. By your argument if those parents are 'protecting' their children then they should never let them leave the house. And activities in the house should be curtailed as well. Such as locking them in an empty room. Perhaps strapped to a board to keep them from moving around.
ryanb31 wrote:
That's an ironic statement. Everyone that I know personally who is against vaccines has done a lot of research. The more research you do on vaccines the more you see how high the risks are.
One obvious possibility is that they do not in fact know how to do "research". Or do not in fact know how to understand it. Any one that does would know that the risks are very low (and autism is NOT a risk.) They would also know how HIGH the risk was for not doing it.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why hate on those that aren't willing to take that risk for their kids?
Why hate someone who locks their child in a room and never lets them leave? Why hate someone who lets their child beat puppies to death with a rock or who sells heroin at their school?
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I interpret my neighbor not reciprocating as selfish.
You're wrong, but I respect your right to believe that.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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You need to read what I wrote. I said you are wrong in assuming someone who chooses not to vaccinate is being selfish. I have seen a healthy young girl become autistic because of vaccinations. I have also seen a young man who played quarterback in high school become a schizophrenia from vaccinations. These are 2 people that I personally have known for years. I have seen what can happen from vaccinations. That is way more powerful than any "study" that can be done. You go ahead and vaccinate your children. I disagree with you but I am not going to criticize you because I know you are trying to be the best parent you know how. But don't do you dare call my a selfish "a**hole" because I love my kids the same as you and therefore I choose not to vaccinate them.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have seen a healthy young girl become autistic because of vaccinations.
There is NO causality. It has been PROVEN that there is no causality. Immunizations to NOT pose a risk for autism. Period.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have also seen a young man who played quarterback in high school become a schizophrenia from vaccinations.
Nonsense. I can only suppose that you do not understand causality. Alternatively provide a medical journal article that shows a risk from the specific immunization with that specific effect.
ryanb31 wrote:
But don't do you dare call my a selfish "a**hole" because I love my kids the same as you and therefore I choose not to vaccinate them.
I am sure that parents such as the following thought that they were doing their children a favor as well. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/70/4/582.short[^]
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ryanb31 wrote:
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations.
I bet if you looked around you could find a child that was killed in a automobile accident after getting immunized as well. Same causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
That of course has nothing to do with your previous assertion. Do you know anyone that has died of measles, whooping cough or polio? Those of course are the "side effects" of not getting immunized. Proven side effects.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect
Actually quite a well popular study that showed that in the UK. Of course the doctor that did it was being paid in connection with a lawyer that was looking to sue for companies for autism. The research was later withdrawn and the doctor is currently under criminal indictment in the UK. Is that the "study" you had in mind? There are no reputable studies that show that. There are in fact reputable studies (plural) that show it isn't true.
ryanb31 wrote:
A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year
Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
ryanb31 wrote:
Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
Have you ever heard of google? When someone understands how to use it, to really use it, one can actually find reliable information versus alarmist lies. Following is one excellent article not only because it is fully available on the internet but because it addresses (presumably) some of those specific studies that you claim exist. http://immunizenow.org/shared/content/takeyourbestshot/Adolescent%20Immunization%20Toolkits/Influenza%20Resources/Flu%20Info%20for%20providers/Vaccines%20and%20autism.pdf[^] However there are many other articles as well.
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There are no reputable studies that show that.
Not according to your definition of reputable.
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Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
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Have you ever heard of google?
I do. Here, let me help you. Click here.[^] Then you quote an article on immunizenow.org. Really? Really? ImmunizeNow.org? That is your reputable source? Wow.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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ryanb31 wrote:
Calling anyone who thinks they are not safe loonies and crazies and the such.
Quite clear that they are. Immunizations can have side effects. Autism is not one of them. I am rather certain that more children die and are seriously injured by being driven to school by their parents than via immunizations. By your logic those parents should be hiring professional drivers.
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ryanb31 wrote:
You're wrong, but I respect your right to believe that.
So if I want my child to learn how to use guns it is ok if I let them shoot your child in the process?
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ryanb31 wrote:
I have seen a healthy young girl become autistic because of vaccinations.
There is NO causality. It has been PROVEN that there is no causality. Immunizations to NOT pose a risk for autism. Period.
ryanb31 wrote:
I have also seen a young man who played quarterback in high school become a schizophrenia from vaccinations.
Nonsense. I can only suppose that you do not understand causality. Alternatively provide a medical journal article that shows a risk from the specific immunization with that specific effect.
ryanb31 wrote:
But don't do you dare call my a selfish "a**hole" because I love my kids the same as you and therefore I choose not to vaccinate them.
I am sure that parents such as the following thought that they were doing their children a favor as well. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/70/4/582.short[^]
I have seen it. You can Google all day long and try to pretend like it does not happen, but I have seen it with mine own eyes. Twice. Get some hard evidence. All you have is research done by the medical industry. No wonder you can't see the truth.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/doctors-unite-to-smash-the-anti-vaccine-group/comments-e6freuy9-1226431497313[^] This is the link to the paper article.
I don't speak Idiot - please talk slowly and clearly "I have sexdaily. I mean dyslexia. Fcuk!" Driven to the arms of Heineken by the wife
Thanks, I commented.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Does any of the lunatics have any solid proof that these vaccines are bad?
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations. What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Bloody hell. What a pile of crap. Let me explain some things here 1 - correlation is not causality. Vaccinations occur before it's possible to know if someone is autistic. The child was already autistic. This is because: 2 - you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ryanb31 wrote:
I don't know about the "lunatics" having proof or not but I personally know a young girl who became autistic after getting immunizations.
I bet if you looked around you could find a child that was killed in a automobile accident after getting immunized as well. Same causality.
ryanb31 wrote:
What makes anyone think there is any chemical drug that has no side effects?
That of course has nothing to do with your previous assertion. Do you know anyone that has died of measles, whooping cough or polio? Those of course are the "side effects" of not getting immunized. Proven side effects.
I wish I could 12 this instead of 5ing it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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ftfy Proven possible side effects.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Yes, that's right. If you get immunised, then the possibility of dying of a preventable disease is greatly diminished. That's why we do it. And the correlation is far greater than the random correlation you find because you look for it, with autism.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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the loonies who think vaccinations cause autism, etc.
Not only have there been studies to confirm that autism is a possible side-effect but I have seen it first hand. A young healthy normal girl that we have known for years became autistic after getting immunizations one year. Why do you think they are completely safe? What evidence do you have?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Correlation is not causality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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There are no reputable studies that show that.
Not according to your definition of reputable.
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Which only demonstrates that you know knowing about autism nor science.
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
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Have you ever heard of google?
I do. Here, let me help you. Click here.[^] Then you quote an article on immunizenow.org. Really? Really? ImmunizeNow.org? That is your reputable source? Wow.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not according to your definition of reputable.
his definition is the scientific one. It means a study that was done where the methods are published and subject to peer review. It's the ONLY definition.
ryanb31 wrote:
When I see someone, not just one person, get sick from vaccinations you are telling me science has the answer and I don't? OK, so what is the answer?
Correlation is not causality. People get sick all the time. Some people are autistic, but autism is not evident from birth ( there are some potential indicators, if you look for them, but it's not evident ). It IS true that a small number of people get sick when immunised. A much larger number of people die from not being immunised. That is the trade off, it's not a perfect world. But no child has ever 'caught autism', not from a vaccination, a toilet seat, or a blow to the head.
ryanb31 wrote:
The great thing about the web is that if you search not for the facts, but for studies that prove your point of view, you're bound to find something. That's because science is the new religion, you need the blessing of science and not the gods to convince people nowadays, so anyone with an axe to grind, will come up with a 'study'.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Bloody hell. What a pile of crap. Let me explain some things here 1 - correlation is not causality. Vaccinations occur before it's possible to know if someone is autistic. The child was already autistic. This is because: 2 - you can't CATCH autism, nor is there any known mechanism to make it occur post birth. It's a condition of brain development ( there is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity ). As such, nothing can cause it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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nothing can cause it.
How intelligent. I have seen it happen, more than once. The girl was not autistic. She was 12 when this happened. And the young man I know who had the similar issue was 20 when it happened.
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here is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity
You even admit no one knows everything about it, yet you claim to know it can't develop from chemicals in the body.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Yes, that's right. If you get immunised, then the possibility of dying of a preventable disease is greatly diminished. That's why we do it. And the correlation is far greater than the random correlation you find because you look for it, with autism.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Are you a father? If so, you are telling me that you would rather risk a mental disorder or even death for your child just so they don't get the flu? If that is the case, fine, you're doing the best you can. I disagree but I don't hate you for it.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Correlation is not causality.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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nothing can cause it.
How intelligent. I have seen it happen, more than once. The girl was not autistic. She was 12 when this happened. And the young man I know who had the similar issue was 20 when it happened.
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here is some thought that it's a form of hyper masculinity
You even admit no one knows everything about it, yet you claim to know it can't develop from chemicals in the body.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Again, correlation is not causality. There are things we're learning about the nature of autism, but we know it's caused in the womb, there's no question of that. I've read widely on autism and my wife works with autistic children. My knowledge goes a little deeper than the sort of pseudo science spread by vaccination scare mongers. I'm sorry you know someone whose autism was discovered at 12, but the odds of vaccination causing it, are zero. This is a proven fact. Proven facts trump personal experience mixed with conjecture. That's how science works. Are you claiming that because we don't know everything about something, that we must know nothing ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.