Vaccinations
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Yes, but none of the results of our experiments are going to change. New theories have to match or beat existing theories in their ability to explain. None of those ancient theories had that level of experimental support.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
OK, let's get right to the point then. The issue is about vaccines. The CDC website says they have been proven to cause brain damage. So, why is someone crazy for not wanting to put their child at that risk?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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OK, let's get right to the point then. The issue is about vaccines. The CDC website says they have been proven to cause brain damage. So, why is someone crazy for not wanting to put their child at that risk?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Taken in isolation like it seems crazy that you would vaccinate. However, not vaccinating and contracting the disease causes more brain damage, and it also increases the chance that others will suffer. There are benefits and risks with both choices.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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I never said vaccines were bad or that we should eliminate them. All I am saying is someone who decides not to put their child at risk of brain disorder or even death is not a loony.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Did you look at the side effects of polio?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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Did you look at the side effects of polio?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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Yes, and?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine? You also choose to piss all over the opportunity our species has to eliminate a horrible plague because of something that unlikely when you take much greater risks all the time every day and don't even bat an eye?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine? You also choose to piss all over the opportunity our species has to eliminate a horrible plague because of something that unlikely when you take much greater risks all the time every day and don't even bat an eye?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine?
I didn't say that. I have been talking about vaccines in general. There is a good argument for vaccinating for polio. I don't think anyone is crazy if they choose not to. But what about the flu vaccine? I've had the flu a few times, so what? I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate. My point is, neither side is crazy.
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You also choose to piss all over the opportunity
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler. So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine?
I didn't say that. I have been talking about vaccines in general. There is a good argument for vaccinating for polio. I don't think anyone is crazy if they choose not to. But what about the flu vaccine? I've had the flu a few times, so what? I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate. My point is, neither side is crazy.
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You also choose to piss all over the opportunity
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler. So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
Yeah things are a little charged over this topic because of people that are skipping polio and whooping cough vaccines and children are dying.
ryanb31 wrote:
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler.
It is an emotional statement, but I don't think a junior high kid would use that phrase.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
I don't view it quite that morbidly. My aunt has been bed ridden since 1980 because of a car accident. I know a family who's teenage son was paralyzed diving into a swimming pool. I've had classmates killed by guns and several by cars. Everyone dies and gets injured. There are risks and side effects to everything. I'd like to compare the rate of choking deaths to vaccines, eating might even have comparable risks. I'll bring up the opposite emotional question how would you feel if your unvaccinated child gave a fatal case of whooping cough to their infant sister or a neighbor's child. Would you feel responsible?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine?
I didn't say that. I have been talking about vaccines in general. There is a good argument for vaccinating for polio. I don't think anyone is crazy if they choose not to. But what about the flu vaccine? I've had the flu a few times, so what? I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate. My point is, neither side is crazy.
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You also choose to piss all over the opportunity
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler. So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
I'd also add, that I would probably feel a lot worse about an injury my child suffered while I was behind the wheel.
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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Yeah things are a little charged over this topic because of people that are skipping polio and whooping cough vaccines and children are dying.
ryanb31 wrote:
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler.
It is an emotional statement, but I don't think a junior high kid would use that phrase.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
I don't view it quite that morbidly. My aunt has been bed ridden since 1980 because of a car accident. I know a family who's teenage son was paralyzed diving into a swimming pool. I've had classmates killed by guns and several by cars. Everyone dies and gets injured. There are risks and side effects to everything. I'd like to compare the rate of choking deaths to vaccines, eating might even have comparable risks. I'll bring up the opposite emotional question how would you feel if your unvaccinated child gave a fatal case of whooping cough to their infant sister or a neighbor's child. Would you feel responsible?
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
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Anything that has an effect will have potential side effects.
I'm referring to negative side effects. If I eat an apple I am healthier with no negative side effects.
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Cancers
Cancers are not cured by doctors. Even the medical industry claims there is no cure for cancer. There are all kinds of "walks to find a cure." Some cancers are destroyed from someones body but that is not a cure. If the person survives the treatment they may not have any cancer left but that is not a cure. Surgical repairs are not cures. I'm talking about diseases and sicknesses.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
If I eat an apple I am healthier with no negative side effects.
Yep. You don't have any. Because most people don't. Some however do. And it can occur suddenly. http://bodyodd.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/10/12/8276488-when-an-apple-allergy-suddenly-appears?lite[^] Same as the vast number of people who are vaccinated have no problems. And side by side risk analysis suggests that vaccinations are better than no vaccinations. Just as eating is better than not eating (because every food has someone that is allergic to it.
ryanb31 wrote:
Cancers are not cured by doctors.
I think that is a valid point. However more people are alive because of the treatments they received from doctors. They wouldn't be alive if they had decided that there was no real cure so they were just going to stay home.
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So you choose risk of polio over the risk of the vaccine?
I didn't say that. I have been talking about vaccines in general. There is a good argument for vaccinating for polio. I don't think anyone is crazy if they choose not to. But what about the flu vaccine? I've had the flu a few times, so what? I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate. My point is, neither side is crazy.
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You also choose to piss all over the opportunity
Sounds like an emotional statement from a junior high schooler. So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate.
I suspect that you might care if you caught the flu or your neighbor did and then your 18 month old baby died from it. Or your 90 year old grandmother. Or if you took either of them to the doctor and the doctor took the same view as you. And so they died.
ryanb31 wrote:
or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine
I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
Specious. Parents always blame themselves for a death. They also attempt to find someone or something else to blame as well. And there have been wide spread scares propagated by that very need.
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ryanb31 wrote:
I don't care if you do or don't vaccinate.
I suspect that you might care if you caught the flu or your neighbor did and then your 18 month old baby died from it. Or your 90 year old grandmother. Or if you took either of them to the doctor and the doctor took the same view as you. And so they died.
ryanb31 wrote:
or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine
I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
ryanb31 wrote:
So, I suppose if your child was one of the few who dies or got a brain tumor from a polio vaccine, you would feel honored and proud because you are doing your part for society? A small sacrifice for society.
Specious. Parents always blame themselves for a death. They also attempt to find someone or something else to blame as well. And there have been wide spread scares propagated by that very need.
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your 18 month old baby died from it
That would be tragic. However, there are natural cures for the flu and I would rather take that small risk and cure the flu naturally then take the small risk of developing a brain disorder, which may not have any cure.
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took either of them to the doctor
Hah!! That will be the day. Haven't been to the doctor in many, many years, and never plan to. They don't fix anything. Actually, the last time I went to a doctor many years ago I caught the flu! Cesspool of nastiness.
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I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
I already showed you, and you ignored it. The CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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Irrelevant
How? I stated the US is different than many other countries so find out what the rates are in other countries. Do you know what irrelevant means? CDC. You're right, they just order them and they are the main source for encouraging vaccines. Still a biased source. Even though the CDC is biased, even they admit there can be serious side effects. http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/side-effects.htm[^] From the CDC, the DTaP vaccine can cause long-term seizures, coma, or permanent brain damage. They claim they aren't sure it was caused by the vaccine but why post it? Because there is good evidence it is. Also, the influenza vaccine has caused life-threatening allergic reactions and even GBS. MMR - permanent brain damage. Varicella- seizure. Yellow Fever - organ failure - death Any more evidence?
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
From the CDC, the DTaP vaccine can cause long-term seizures, coma, or permanent brain damage. They claim they aren't sure it was caused by the vaccine but why post it? Because there is good evidence it is.
Your statement is false. They post it because they want to disclose what they do know. And what they do know is "These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine."
ryanb31 wrote:
Also, the influenza vaccine has caused life-threatening allergic reactions and even GBS.
Specious. The last is a condition that occurred in the 70s and has not occurred since.
ryanb31 wrote:
MMR - permanent brain damage.
Varicella- seizure.
Yellow Fever - organ failure - deathSpecious. And cherry picking. MMR - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Varicella - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Yellow Fever - Utter and complete nonsense. The mortality rate for yellow fever starts at 3% and can get as high as 50%. And survivors run some risk of liver damage. Not to mention of course that this vaccination has nothing to do with the US.
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ryanb31 wrote:
From the CDC, the DTaP vaccine can cause long-term seizures, coma, or permanent brain damage. They claim they aren't sure it was caused by the vaccine but why post it? Because there is good evidence it is.
Your statement is false. They post it because they want to disclose what they do know. And what they do know is "These are so rare it is hard to tell if they are caused by the vaccine."
ryanb31 wrote:
Also, the influenza vaccine has caused life-threatening allergic reactions and even GBS.
Specious. The last is a condition that occurred in the 70s and has not occurred since.
ryanb31 wrote:
MMR - permanent brain damage.
Varicella- seizure.
Yellow Fever - organ failure - deathSpecious. And cherry picking. MMR - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Varicella - again the occurrence is so low that they are not sure that there is an association. Yellow Fever - Utter and complete nonsense. The mortality rate for yellow fever starts at 3% and can get as high as 50%. And survivors run some risk of liver damage. Not to mention of course that this vaccination has nothing to do with the US.
Nice try. "But the risk of a vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely low." That is what the CDC says. They don't say it is impossible, which is what most of the responses to my messages have been. I have never argued against getting vaccines. There may be a great reason to vaccinate against yellow fever or polio. My point all along is there is risk of serious brain damage with vaccinations so someone who chooses not to do it is not crazy. Both sides have a valid argument.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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your 18 month old baby died from it
That would be tragic. However, there are natural cures for the flu and I would rather take that small risk and cure the flu naturally then take the small risk of developing a brain disorder, which may not have any cure.
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took either of them to the doctor
Hah!! That will be the day. Haven't been to the doctor in many, many years, and never plan to. They don't fix anything. Actually, the last time I went to a doctor many years ago I caught the flu! Cesspool of nastiness.
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I doubt that there is any medical evidence to the support that claim.
I already showed you, and you ignored it. The CDC admits they can cause brain damage.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
There are no proven effective cures or definitive treatments for the influenza virus, natural or otherwise. The safest management strategy for at-risk populations (children, elderly, immunocompromised) is seasonal vaccination of themselves and close contacts and frequent handwashing. Your callous "well I had the flu once and I had fine" is noted, but I've seen lots of people get admitted to hospital requiring oxygen, sometimes requiring intubation and ICU, and sometimes die from influenza or its complications. I didn't realize that we could have just cured them with an herbal remedy or a tea made from ginkgo leaves or something while they were coughing up blood and struggling to breathe, I'll have to suggest that next time.
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There are no proven effective cures or definitive treatments for the influenza virus, natural or otherwise. The safest management strategy for at-risk populations (children, elderly, immunocompromised) is seasonal vaccination of themselves and close contacts and frequent handwashing. Your callous "well I had the flu once and I had fine" is noted, but I've seen lots of people get admitted to hospital requiring oxygen, sometimes requiring intubation and ICU, and sometimes die from influenza or its complications. I didn't realize that we could have just cured them with an herbal remedy or a tea made from ginkgo leaves or something while they were coughing up blood and struggling to breathe, I'll have to suggest that next time.
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no proven effective cures
Not by the medical community.
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I didn't realize...
Bingo!
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Not by the medical community.
That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work instead of imaginary placebo cures. But hey, good luck using Google to diagnose your kids if they get sick. Hope you don't miss anything dangerous with your overconfidence...
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ryanb31 wrote:
Not by the medical community.
That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work instead of imaginary placebo cures. But hey, good luck using Google to diagnose your kids if they get sick. Hope you don't miss anything dangerous with your overconfidence...
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That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
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diagnose your kids if they get sick.
What first turned me off to doctors was my 2nd son, when he was 2 was having seizures. Doctors ran MRI, CAT, EKG, all of the tests they could and they said he is perfectly normal. Do you really need to study science to know that seizures are not perfectly normal? One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure. He also had an ear infection one time. The doctor told us there "is nothing you can do" to heal it naturally. She said we had to put tubes in his ears. We got a second opinion from another doctor and they told us the same thing. A quick ask around from friends and we used garlic oil to clear it up. We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say. They were amazed. Doctors presrcibe medicine, which has side effects. THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM, THEY TREAT SYMPTOMS. Not too useful.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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That's the only community that matters when it comes to things that actually work
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
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diagnose your kids if they get sick.
What first turned me off to doctors was my 2nd son, when he was 2 was having seizures. Doctors ran MRI, CAT, EKG, all of the tests they could and they said he is perfectly normal. Do you really need to study science to know that seizures are not perfectly normal? One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure. He also had an ear infection one time. The doctor told us there "is nothing you can do" to heal it naturally. She said we had to put tubes in his ears. We got a second opinion from another doctor and they told us the same thing. A quick ask around from friends and we used garlic oil to clear it up. We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say. They were amazed. Doctors presrcibe medicine, which has side effects. THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM, THEY TREAT SYMPTOMS. Not too useful.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
ryanb31 wrote:
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
They didn't. Many died in childbirth. More died in infancy or childhood of treatable infections or were left with permanent damage. You just don't realize how good you have it now.
ryanb31 wrote:
One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure.
Or: - he wasn't actually having seizures - the seizures just went away on their own Both of which are much more likely than the chiropractor giving him a backrub and affecting something in the brain which (protip) makes absolutely no physiologic or anatomic sense. But hey, temporal correlation MUST prove causation... :rolleyes: Why don't you credit the breakfast he had the morning of the chiropractor appointment? It makes about the same amount of sense.
ryanb31 wrote:
We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say.
You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away on its own went away on its own!?! Shocking!?!?!? Seriously, if this is the limit of the narrow experience you have with actual medicine, you need to count your blessings, because this seriously is a real bunch of piddly shit.
ryanb31 wrote:
THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM,
We do if we can. I offered lots of examples that you huffed and puffed at and finally ran away from. Thanks to our real education based on real science, we also have a better idea of what the real "problem" is as opposed to chiropractors, etc, who just make up easy-to-understand descriptions of things that don't actually exist and would usually fix themselves (see: above) and offer a magical cure that does nothing. Then when it goes away like it would people just like you who don't understand causality are AMMAAAAAZED!!!!
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ryanb31 wrote:
Now, how in the world did people ever survive for thousands of years before doctors and chemicals? Amazing.
They didn't. Many died in childbirth. More died in infancy or childhood of treatable infections or were left with permanent damage. You just don't realize how good you have it now.
ryanb31 wrote:
One trip to the chiropractor and he never had another seizure.
Or: - he wasn't actually having seizures - the seizures just went away on their own Both of which are much more likely than the chiropractor giving him a backrub and affecting something in the brain which (protip) makes absolutely no physiologic or anatomic sense. But hey, temporal correlation MUST prove causation... :rolleyes: Why don't you credit the breakfast he had the morning of the chiropractor appointment? It makes about the same amount of sense.
ryanb31 wrote:
We went back to the doctor to make sure the infection was gone and the doctor had nothing to say.
You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away on its own went away on its own!?! Shocking!?!?!? Seriously, if this is the limit of the narrow experience you have with actual medicine, you need to count your blessings, because this seriously is a real bunch of piddly shit.
ryanb31 wrote:
THEY DO NOT TREAT THE PROBLEM,
We do if we can. I offered lots of examples that you huffed and puffed at and finally ran away from. Thanks to our real education based on real science, we also have a better idea of what the real "problem" is as opposed to chiropractors, etc, who just make up easy-to-understand descriptions of things that don't actually exist and would usually fix themselves (see: above) and offer a magical cure that does nothing. Then when it goes away like it would people just like you who don't understand causality are AMMAAAAAZED!!!!
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Many died in childbirth...
Thanks for the history lesson. Yes, I am aware of this. Obviously the mortality rate is much much better now but you acted like we couldn't live without doctors. They are the all knowing. Go talk to some old timer out in the country and you'll be amazed at how simple things can cure stuff you go to the pharmacy for. Most of that knowledge is lost in society. I'm guess you don't believe in the Bible but there are accounts of people living over 900 years old. Can't do that with today's technology.
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he wasn't actually having seizures
Now you are just being an insensitive jerk. I'd smack you if you said that to me. How dare you! Such an idiot.
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You mean a self-limited disease that they told you would go away
Do you know how to read? They said we would have to operate. Are you just trolling? Serious! I hope you are not as ignorant and blind as you are making yourself look like. I really hope this is just trolling. If not, you clearly have been on vaccinations because you are mentally retarded.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.