Am I Being Bullied by Microsoft
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CDP1802 wrote:
And do you really believe all that? For all those years all kinds of companies have tried to sell us their next new thing, always promising that we will get better, more productive and more successful than ever. How productive should we be up to now? Do we do the impossible instantly, only wonders take a little longer? Do less software projects fail now? Do you actually need any of this stuff?
Alright. Go write your next large multi-platform GUI-based program in machine code. While you're busy wasting your time and pretending that none of it changes anything, I'll be doing something productive, like finishing the same application in a fraction of the time by learning to use and utilize new tools as they become available :)
lewax00 wrote:
Go write your next large multi-platform GUI-based program in machine code
You lose. I already did that when I was 12 years old, but minus the GUI part. Was not really hard because no two self-built computers were alike. We used something like a simple virtual machine for that. Or we compensated the lack of any OS by using FORTH, gaining most of the benefits of the oh so modern functional languages and even multitasking. My buddy, who got me to build a computer in the first place, later built himself a graphics card and also wrote a GUI as soon as he got hold of a mouse. Must have been around 1982. Where did he get that mouse from? But ok, go on with the 'new' tools, but take care not to become a tool yourself :)
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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Is It Just Me Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old, Server 2008 R2 that new software that I need to load isn’t supported by my operating system and that updating my operating systems means that I need to upgrade my computer to a 64 bit processor, the quote of $5,500.00 because I like grunt for my computer and upgrading my software is an expensive prospect. But that’s not all Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen and all the development over the last few years was a waste of time and money on Web Development and that most of the technology will change. So all our development is only good for intranet and you can scrap half of that. There’s a whole heap of new technologies that I need to learn with windows 8 coming out and the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support after being told by Microsoft that they would continue to support the home language but now I’m hearing that if I want to continue with VB then I need to write games software. I don’t write games software and if I did then I would have to learn a lot more than VB to write game software. The Cross Road So what are my options? Maybe I should look at other Languages and Companies? Are they better with fewer problems? Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make. Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee. I’m feeling quite bullied at the moment, maybe I’m over thinking this?
k-vic wrote:
the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support
It's about time. VB6 should have been the last release. VB was dead when .NET came out.
k-vic wrote:
Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship
You are finally getting it. There is no VB in the future.
k-vic wrote:
or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make
Grow up, this is Micro$oft we are talking about.
k-vic wrote:
Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee.
Actually that is probably what happened and the decision was made that trying to support VB didn't make sense.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
I'm currently writing an application in Silverlight 5. I plan to use that technology for our in house applications for the next 5 years. I picked Silverlight because it most closely matched what we'll be dealing with in Windows 8 in that we'll still be using XAML, C# and so forth. According to a few blogs (yeah, I know) there is a good chance my current applications will port directly to Windows 8 with little or no code changes. My office is likely to skip Windows 8 altogether. I've no interest in the HTML/Javascript nonsense for business applications - I think that stack is a big sweaty mess - however, if you're doing websites it is probably your only long term option. That puts me in a vulnerable place to some extent because simply everyone is going web - so if I have to go do something else for a living in 5 years that's fine with me. I really hate the klunky HTML stack.
MehGerbil wrote:
I've no interest in the HTML/Javascript nonsense for business applications
Luddite!
MehGerbil wrote:
if you're doing websites it is probably your only long term option
The future is interwebs.
MehGerbil wrote:
That puts me in a vulnerable place to some extent because simply everyone is going web
The ship is sailing and you can either be on it or left behind on the dock. The choice is yours.
MehGerbil wrote:
I really hate the klunky HTML stack
Irrelevant! The future doesn't care about what you think. I went from client server applications to web applications about 12 years ago. I saw the writing on the wall. Talk about a messy HTML stack. We have come a long way since then; xhtml then html5. Service architecture is the future and rightfully so.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
MehGerbil wrote:
I've no interest in the HTML/Javascript nonsense for business applications
Luddite!
MehGerbil wrote:
if you're doing websites it is probably your only long term option
The future is interwebs.
MehGerbil wrote:
That puts me in a vulnerable place to some extent because simply everyone is going web
The ship is sailing and you can either be on it or left behind on the dock. The choice is yours.
MehGerbil wrote:
I really hate the klunky HTML stack
Irrelevant! The future doesn't care about what you think. I went from client server applications to web applications about 12 years ago. I saw the writing on the wall. Talk about a messy HTML stack. We have come a long way since then; xhtml then html5. Service architecture is the future and rightfully so.
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopesJimmyRopes wrote:
Irrelevant! The future doesn't care about what you think. I went from client server applications to web applications about 12 years ago. I saw the writing on the wall.
Talk about a messy HTML stack. We have come a long way since then; xhtml then html5.Service architecture is the future and rightfully so.
Hey, reverend, spare us the fire and brimstone. The future does also not care about what you have seen written on a wall. :)
JimmyRopes wrote:
The ship is sailing and you can either be on it or left behind on the dock. The choice is yours.
Your ship is from an interesting fleet, including the Titanic (also known as The Unsinkable), a few ships of fools, M$ Vista and M$ Metro (nicknamed 'Unsinkable II' and 'Unsinkable III'). Being left behind at the dock sometimes is not the worst that can happen. :)
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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Is It Just Me Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old, Server 2008 R2 that new software that I need to load isn’t supported by my operating system and that updating my operating systems means that I need to upgrade my computer to a 64 bit processor, the quote of $5,500.00 because I like grunt for my computer and upgrading my software is an expensive prospect. But that’s not all Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen and all the development over the last few years was a waste of time and money on Web Development and that most of the technology will change. So all our development is only good for intranet and you can scrap half of that. There’s a whole heap of new technologies that I need to learn with windows 8 coming out and the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support after being told by Microsoft that they would continue to support the home language but now I’m hearing that if I want to continue with VB then I need to write games software. I don’t write games software and if I did then I would have to learn a lot more than VB to write game software. The Cross Road So what are my options? Maybe I should look at other Languages and Companies? Are they better with fewer problems? Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make. Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee. I’m feeling quite bullied at the moment, maybe I’m over thinking this?
k-vic wrote:
Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old
It's past the five year mark. Sorry about that, but that's the speed of developments. While Vista ran acceptably on a desktop here five years ago, it's now extremely slow, even after a clean reinstall. Why? Well, simple, time moved on, a lot of security holes were found and fixed, bugs patched. Either you move forward, or you are falling behind.
k-vic wrote:
Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen
We heard that one before too, quite some times actually. You do know that Windows 8 still is backward compatible with VB6? Do you really think that Microsoft would laugh at their clients who have invested in Silverlight and tell them that their investment just went up in smoke? No, someone at the "top" of Microsoft would not do any such statements. Not formally, not informally.
k-vic wrote:
Visual Basic is now having reduced support
Only Visual Basic 6. You can have support for VB.NET, and it's not leaving any time soon.
k-vic wrote:
Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft
Quit whining already and jump ship - switch to Linux, or Mac, and let Microsoft "drown" if you dislike the environment that much. Learn C++ and "enjoy" hunting for memory-leaks, tracing pointers, spend an eternity on the most basic shizzle.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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I think the issue here isn't that you are being bullied. Instead, I think the issue is that you expect to move forward without change. Let's look through the list. First, the fact that your software doesn't support 32-bit Server 2008 R2 isn't the fault of Microsoft. Instead, it is your software that needs the 64-bit OS. Microsoft was actually doing you a favor by offering a 32-bit OS for Server 2008 R2 (in fact, I didn't realize they still supported it). Servers need lots of RAM and 32-bit server OS's just won't cut it since they can only access 4GB of RAM. Second, it has been known for a long time that Silverlight is a shaky technology. Microsoft tried something and it didn't catch on the way they wanted. Part of the issue was that it only supported Microsoft browsers. It also was very heavy, which wasn't a bad thing when there wasn't an alternative. Now with the rise of really powerful jQuery and HTML5 webpages as well as the rise in tablet/mobile browsing, the need for Silverlight is rapidly diminishing. Microsoft is still supporting it for a long time but they are doing the right thing to sunset it. You can still use Silverlight in Windows 8, though, so you can still use your apps for years to come (probably a decade). Third, investing years into Visual Basic was a mistake (I'm assuming you mean VB6). VB6 has been ready to sunset for years. Microsoft did everyone an enormous favor by continuing support as long as they have (way longer than they should have). Even VB.NET isn't something you should depend on. VB.NET is a gateway drug into the .NET world from VB6. C# is the language that is syntactically the closest to the rest of the major languages and it is the primarly language in .NET. At some point (still in the future), Microsoft is going to say "it isn't cost effective for us to support two languages that do (practically) the exact same thing". Even then they will give you years to transition. Overall, learning new technologies is something you will always need to do no matter what language you choose. The .NET stack is powerful and stable. It is also backed by one of the largest software companies in the world. They make mistakes, but they also try to fix their mistakes without hurting those who bought into their mistakes. My suggestion to you would be to learn the web languages (ASP.NET MVC, jQuery, etc.) They will continue to change and grow, but if you keep up you will be prepared for anything. Right now you can develop apps for the desktop on Windows 8 using these
Not completely off topic but , if C# is taking over from VB, where does that leave F#? F# I believe is interpreted. Coming from 8 Bit micros interpreted meant slow programs & the loss of a good portion of memory with multi-gig Machines running fast are the penalties still there (I mean Python for instance ((script based but..))):confused:. Glenn
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JimmyRopes wrote:
Irrelevant! The future doesn't care about what you think. I went from client server applications to web applications about 12 years ago. I saw the writing on the wall.
Talk about a messy HTML stack. We have come a long way since then; xhtml then html5.Service architecture is the future and rightfully so.
Hey, reverend, spare us the fire and brimstone. The future does also not care about what you have seen written on a wall. :)
JimmyRopes wrote:
The ship is sailing and you can either be on it or left behind on the dock. The choice is yours.
Your ship is from an interesting fleet, including the Titanic (also known as The Unsinkable), a few ships of fools, M$ Vista and M$ Metro (nicknamed 'Unsinkable II' and 'Unsinkable III'). Being left behind at the dock sometimes is not the worst that can happen. :)
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
CDP1802 wrote:
Hey, reverend, spare us the fire and brimstone. The future does also not care about what you have seen written on a wall.
No it doesn't. Look over your sholder and you will see the meteor coming just before it hits the earth and whipes out your entire species.
CDP1802 wrote:
Your ship is from an interesting fleet, including the Titanic (also known as The Unsinkable), a few ships of fools, M$ Vista and M$ Metro (nicknamed 'Unsinkable II' and 'Unsinkable III').
What does that have to do with the interwebs? I have many customers who have Apache servers.
CDP1802 wrote:
Being left behind at the dock sometimes is not the worst that can happen.
You are no doubt proud to be the best buggy whip[^] manufacturer. :)
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
k-vic wrote:
Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old
It's past the five year mark. Sorry about that, but that's the speed of developments. While Vista ran acceptably on a desktop here five years ago, it's now extremely slow, even after a clean reinstall. Why? Well, simple, time moved on, a lot of security holes were found and fixed, bugs patched. Either you move forward, or you are falling behind.
k-vic wrote:
Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen
We heard that one before too, quite some times actually. You do know that Windows 8 still is backward compatible with VB6? Do you really think that Microsoft would laugh at their clients who have invested in Silverlight and tell them that their investment just went up in smoke? No, someone at the "top" of Microsoft would not do any such statements. Not formally, not informally.
k-vic wrote:
Visual Basic is now having reduced support
Only Visual Basic 6. You can have support for VB.NET, and it's not leaving any time soon.
k-vic wrote:
Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft
Quit whining already and jump ship - switch to Linux, or Mac, and let Microsoft "drown" if you dislike the environment that much. Learn C++ and "enjoy" hunting for memory-leaks, tracing pointers, spend an eternity on the most basic shizzle.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
Eddy Vluggen wrote:
Either you move forward, or you are falling behind.
:thumbsup:
The report of my death was an exaggeration - Mark Twain
Simply Elegant Designs JimmyRopes Designs
Think inside the box! ProActive Secure Systems
I'm on-line therefore I am. JimmyRopes -
Not completely off topic but , if C# is taking over from VB, where does that leave F#? F# I believe is interpreted. Coming from 8 Bit micros interpreted meant slow programs & the loss of a good portion of memory with multi-gig Machines running fast are the penalties still there (I mean Python for instance ((script based but..))):confused:. Glenn
F# is a different case than C#/VB.NET. It serves a different function (no pun intended) than C# and VB.NET. The issue with VB.NET and C# is that they are both doing the same job the same basic way. The only reason there are two languages is because people on VB6 needed a less jarring way to get into the .NET languages. F# allows for rapid prototyping and lightning fast programs for very specific purposes. That is much different than the broader C#.
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F# is a different case than C#/VB.NET. It serves a different function (no pun intended) than C# and VB.NET. The issue with VB.NET and C# is that they are both doing the same job the same basic way. The only reason there are two languages is because people on VB6 needed a less jarring way to get into the .NET languages. F# allows for rapid prototyping and lightning fast programs for very specific purposes. That is much different than the broader C#.
I am an electronics guy who get lumbered with writing windows front ends for some of our products & test suites for others. I came to Vis Studio 6 as no one else had time to do it. I wanted a Turbo C++ with Windows, but had to use VB6, then got bitten by the awful beta version of .NET that battled with 6, hid in a corner looking at spectrum analyzer for a year or two, came back to PC to find .NET1.1 with C# ( I was a little confused by how MsgBox"" had turned in MessageBox.Show() in VB.NET) , not looked back since really. Is F# designed for Networking, Data Bases or another really odd use as I was under the impression that specialist languages were dead (or dying, a friend uses some specialist language for updating satellites) Glenn
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I am an electronics guy who get lumbered with writing windows front ends for some of our products & test suites for others. I came to Vis Studio 6 as no one else had time to do it. I wanted a Turbo C++ with Windows, but had to use VB6, then got bitten by the awful beta version of .NET that battled with 6, hid in a corner looking at spectrum analyzer for a year or two, came back to PC to find .NET1.1 with C# ( I was a little confused by how MsgBox"" had turned in MessageBox.Show() in VB.NET) , not looked back since really. Is F# designed for Networking, Data Bases or another really odd use as I was under the impression that specialist languages were dead (or dying, a friend uses some specialist language for updating satellites) Glenn
I'm not convinced of the long-term viability of F# yet but I wouldn't say it is necessarily doomed either. I think it will float around in the background for a while (as it already has). F# is primarily a rapid prototyping language. The idea is that you can quickly bang out a test application in F# to verify your logic. You can even integrate it into your existing C# application to see how it will work in your overall app. Some people have used it for other purposes because of its low overhead in certain circumstances, but those are niche solutions. You aren't going to develop whole applications in F# in the future (at least you shouldn't IMO).
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lewax00 wrote:
Go write your next large multi-platform GUI-based program in machine code
You lose. I already did that when I was 12 years old, but minus the GUI part. Was not really hard because no two self-built computers were alike. We used something like a simple virtual machine for that. Or we compensated the lack of any OS by using FORTH, gaining most of the benefits of the oh so modern functional languages and even multitasking. My buddy, who got me to build a computer in the first place, later built himself a graphics card and also wrote a GUI as soon as he got hold of a mouse. Must have been around 1982. Where did he get that mouse from? But ok, go on with the 'new' tools, but take care not to become a tool yourself :)
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
CDP1802 wrote:
we compensated the lack of any OS by using FORTH, gaining most of the benefits of the oh so modern functional languages and even multitasking.
My man! FORTH - the one true language! I modified LMI's 32 bit FORTH multitasker to support priority and debugging. I used to compile 300K programs in 30 seconds on a 12 MHz 386. The "C" geeks that followed my project needed 100 MHz machines and 20+ minutes for just the communications software they wanted to run on the mult-tasking OS instead of multi-tasking the language.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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I'm not convinced of the long-term viability of F# yet but I wouldn't say it is necessarily doomed either. I think it will float around in the background for a while (as it already has). F# is primarily a rapid prototyping language. The idea is that you can quickly bang out a test application in F# to verify your logic. You can even integrate it into your existing C# application to see how it will work in your overall app. Some people have used it for other purposes because of its low overhead in certain circumstances, but those are niche solutions. You aren't going to develop whole applications in F# in the future (at least you shouldn't IMO).
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F# is primarily a rapid prototyping language. The idea is that you can quickly bang out a test application in F# to verify your logic....
Hmmm, that's what VB6 became you got exe tested it did what you though sent it out and generated :mad: users! Why can I see F# taking this role as a Friday afternoon been to the pub at lunch time just need to do this one thing...
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You aren't going to develop whole applications in F# in the future (at least you shouldn't IMO).
Why can I see the boards filling up with "Can I Haz code Pleeze for xxx in F#" and so the VB wars begin this time F#. Or am I being cynical? Glenn
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Is It Just Me Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old, Server 2008 R2 that new software that I need to load isn’t supported by my operating system and that updating my operating systems means that I need to upgrade my computer to a 64 bit processor, the quote of $5,500.00 because I like grunt for my computer and upgrading my software is an expensive prospect. But that’s not all Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen and all the development over the last few years was a waste of time and money on Web Development and that most of the technology will change. So all our development is only good for intranet and you can scrap half of that. There’s a whole heap of new technologies that I need to learn with windows 8 coming out and the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support after being told by Microsoft that they would continue to support the home language but now I’m hearing that if I want to continue with VB then I need to write games software. I don’t write games software and if I did then I would have to learn a lot more than VB to write game software. The Cross Road So what are my options? Maybe I should look at other Languages and Companies? Are they better with fewer problems? Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make. Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee. I’m feeling quite bullied at the moment, maybe I’m over thinking this?
You're not being bullied, you're just suffering from a problem endemic to proprietary software: your fortunes are at the whim of your vendor. If a product isn't making the vendor enough money, it can be suddenly terminated. For this reason I've always found it very risky to support any development technology that is proprietary regardless of the vendor. The risk of having to rewrite everything on the event of product termination is far too high. I prefer languages that are either covered by an industry standard or are open source. With regard to Microsoft tools, the CLI (Common Language Infrastructure), C#, and C++/CLI are standardized by ECMA. C and C++ are standardized, formerly by ANSI, now by ISO. (One caveat, I believe Microsoft has stopped keeping C fully up to date with the standard.) Because these ones are covered by industry standards bodies, these are the only Microsoft development tools I would consider completely safe to use, which more or less echoes the recommendations of others for different reasons. This isn't really a matter of "better/fewer problems" but proprietary or non-proprietary. My advice is, steer clear of proprietary.
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Is It Just Me Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old, Server 2008 R2 that new software that I need to load isn’t supported by my operating system and that updating my operating systems means that I need to upgrade my computer to a 64 bit processor, the quote of $5,500.00 because I like grunt for my computer and upgrading my software is an expensive prospect. But that’s not all Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen and all the development over the last few years was a waste of time and money on Web Development and that most of the technology will change. So all our development is only good for intranet and you can scrap half of that. There’s a whole heap of new technologies that I need to learn with windows 8 coming out and the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support after being told by Microsoft that they would continue to support the home language but now I’m hearing that if I want to continue with VB then I need to write games software. I don’t write games software and if I did then I would have to learn a lot more than VB to write game software. The Cross Road So what are my options? Maybe I should look at other Languages and Companies? Are they better with fewer problems? Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make. Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee. I’m feeling quite bullied at the moment, maybe I’m over thinking this?
Here is what I have as a general rule that proved to be working over the years: Never EVER waste time on a technology that originated within Microsoft and is not something they adopted from someone else. Examples: "Visual Basic, Silverlight, Sharepoint (Frontpage) :) " etc.
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F# is primarily a rapid prototyping language. The idea is that you can quickly bang out a test application in F# to verify your logic....
Hmmm, that's what VB6 became you got exe tested it did what you though sent it out and generated :mad: users! Why can I see F# taking this role as a Friday afternoon been to the pub at lunch time just need to do this one thing...
Quote:
You aren't going to develop whole applications in F# in the future (at least you shouldn't IMO).
Why can I see the boards filling up with "Can I Haz code Pleeze for xxx in F#" and so the VB wars begin this time F#. Or am I being cynical? Glenn
You are only being cynical if you are wrong. :) There will be a lot of abuse of F#, especially since I don't think it is clear what it is designed for or how it should be used. One of the biggest cringe-worthy statements I heard one (MS-affiliated) person say that another benefit of F# prototypes working with C# applications is that you can make your prototype operational in production if you don't have the time to do it in C#. That made me twitch. Now we are going to get these ugly hybrid applications running out there that are a nightmare to debug (worse than the usual bad code and poor logic). In the end, though, poor programmers are going to find a way to do things poorly.
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You are only being cynical if you are wrong. :) There will be a lot of abuse of F#, especially since I don't think it is clear what it is designed for or how it should be used. One of the biggest cringe-worthy statements I heard one (MS-affiliated) person say that another benefit of F# prototypes working with C# applications is that you can make your prototype operational in production if you don't have the time to do it in C#. That made me twitch. Now we are going to get these ugly hybrid applications running out there that are a nightmare to debug (worse than the usual bad code and poor logic). In the end, though, poor programmers are going to find a way to do things poorly.
Ahh Well, to quote BattleStar Galactica "It's all happen before, it will happen again", or a song I can't remember the artist at the moment "Nothin' change but the date!" get the tin hats ready for the VB wars again! :)
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CDP1802 wrote:
we compensated the lack of any OS by using FORTH, gaining most of the benefits of the oh so modern functional languages and even multitasking.
My man! FORTH - the one true language! I modified LMI's 32 bit FORTH multitasker to support priority and debugging. I used to compile 300K programs in 30 seconds on a 12 MHz 386. The "C" geeks that followed my project needed 100 MHz machines and 20+ minutes for just the communications software they wanted to run on the mult-tasking OS instead of multi-tasking the language.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
FORTH is great, especially on small systems. It is everything, the OS, an interpreter, a compiler and applications at once, yet the FORTH core was only something between 256 and 512 bytes. The rest was word definitions on top of that. And it seems like the little CDP1802 processor was just made for FORTH. It had no designated stack pointer register. Instead, you could designate any of its 16 working registers as stack pointer. One register was needed as program counter, two for interrupts and DMA, so we could hold 13 different contexts in the CPU and just switch the stack pointer in an interrupt routine.
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
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FORTH is great, especially on small systems. It is everything, the OS, an interpreter, a compiler and applications at once, yet the FORTH core was only something between 256 and 512 bytes. The rest was word definitions on top of that. And it seems like the little CDP1802 processor was just made for FORTH. It had no designated stack pointer register. Instead, you could designate any of its 16 working registers as stack pointer. One register was needed as program counter, two for interrupts and DMA, so we could hold 13 different contexts in the CPU and just switch the stack pointer in an interrupt routine.
At least artificial intelligence already is superior to natural stupidity
I started in TERSE, an inhouse FORTH variant I used to program the Biorhythm cartridge for the Bally Home Arcade. Ultimately it was Z-80 machine code, but I programmed an interface between the system core code and the TERSE development environment. I was able to code in the high level FORTH-like language for prototyping purposes and then replace verb by verb to low level assembler (using FORTH verbs for assembly). I later rewrote a FIG-Forth for the Apple II's 6502 processor so I could do "platform neutral" development for the software publisher I was working for at the time. The plan had been to make Atari, Coleco, and IBM versions to create common core software with the presentation side customized for the deployed environment, avoiding a least common denominator system. I later did computer controlled conveyors using LMI's 16 and later 32 bit FORTH versions. I had a blast programming the conveyors because I could interweave the high and low level code in a real time interrupt driven environment. The real plus was being about to compile new verbs on the fly while the program was running to do diagnostics with. Any other environment would required that I stop the program, edit the source code, re-compile and then re-run. I was convinced FORTH was the best when a colleague and I coded a system in record time. We decided where and how our code would interact and then went to our respective motel rooms (most conveyors were programmed in the field because each design was unique), wrote our code and then zippered them together since we were able to do unit tests verb by verb instead of writing throwaway code scaffolding by loading up the stack with the arguments, executing the verb and then verifying the stack output. I had initially estimated the project to require nine months using traditional methods and we had a "working" version up in six weeks. We literally threw code at the wall and it all stuck.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Is It Just Me Lately I get messages about my operating system that’s not that old, Server 2008 R2 that new software that I need to load isn’t supported by my operating system and that updating my operating systems means that I need to upgrade my computer to a 64 bit processor, the quote of $5,500.00 because I like grunt for my computer and upgrading my software is an expensive prospect. But that’s not all Now I hear from the top in Microsoft that Silverlight 6 won’t happen and all the development over the last few years was a waste of time and money on Web Development and that most of the technology will change. So all our development is only good for intranet and you can scrap half of that. There’s a whole heap of new technologies that I need to learn with windows 8 coming out and the programming language that I have invested into for years Visual Basic is now having reduced support after being told by Microsoft that they would continue to support the home language but now I’m hearing that if I want to continue with VB then I need to write games software. I don’t write games software and if I did then I would have to learn a lot more than VB to write game software. The Cross Road So what are my options? Maybe I should look at other Languages and Companies? Are they better with fewer problems? Maybe all VB programmers should consider jumping ship or adding pressure to Microsoft to honor their commitment to statements they make. Maybe letting one person make decision about the future and movement of development should not be decided by a few but by a steering committee. I’m feeling quite bullied at the moment, maybe I’m over thinking this?
Start using WPF. It's not going anywhere anytime soon, and your Silverlight experience will serve you well. (Note that Silverlight and WPF are NOT the same, but they have a lot in common.) I don't know about VB. I was never a big fan of VB6, and my brief contact with VB.NET when it first came out convinced me that it was an abomination that should have been strangled at birth ;P However, I had to learn C# for a recent project, and found it an absolute joy to work with, especially in combination with WPF. I'm not going to say it's a perfect tech stack, but it is very good. That said, if I were developing anything that even had even a small need to be cross-platform, I would be looking at either HTML5/Javascript or C++/QT. If you're working with large datasets or graphics and performance is an issue, then C++ for sure. I very much doubt VB.NET is going away, though.