Runaway mind
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My suggestion is to get married. Once you are married you learn to listen with out listening. That way you can day dream and still be able to answer questions.
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
like the submit button color
I hope you are exaggerating... that sounds pretty ridiculous. You should ask yourself the question whether it's actually your fault that you're falling asleep during such meetings. Part of being a good manager is being able to let other people make the right choices instead of trying to control everything. To my experience: If you're honest about how they should plan a meeting better instead of wasting everyone's time and energy with pointless discussions that should be taken by a designer in the first place, you will either earn respect; or they'll will be embarrassed/annoyed and that may lead to possibly getting fired. You have nothing to gain from working under an incompetent boss, so whatever happens is fine.
Giraffes are not real.
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The truth shall set you free. :)
But it will make you miserable first.
BDF I often make very large prints from unexposed film, and every one of them turns out to be a picture of myself as I once dreamed I would be. -- BillWoodruff
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As soon as the meeting starts, I'm nodding off. IMHO, 80% of meetings are useless venues for useless people. The useful meetings that we have here, last about 20 mins tops. I know I didn't really answer your question, sorry about that. :)
The way I usually see it is that laziness is just another form of efficiency (with exceptions of course) But here's why i really don't like meetings But engineers and software developers alike usually adapt techniques to be able to comprehend evaluate and solve problems using as little time possible , mostly due to the fact of being notified about a project 2 months ago and getting the signed off spec sheet with a "Can you do this?" 2 weeks before the deadline) But in short our minds think optimally and instead of sitting in a 4 hour meeting 3 times a week one can really just receive a bullet point summary of what to do which is less than a page and takes 3 minutes to read. That way we can all work more efficiently and also leaves a nice paper trail for the 1 day before a deadline "but we also need this function built in , somebody mentioned it on one of the meetings. . ." kind of nightmares.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color
"I'll implement a property and assign a new default-value once the winner of your petty little debate on personal preferences is known and sends me the favourite colour of his wife by email. Please, stop disturbing the working force." ..but then in a somewhat nicer tone and a more tactic choice of words :rolleyes: --edit My apologies if the attitude offends, but the waste of resources is huge and should be terminated. If they don't understand, ask each person what he/she costs per hour. Now explain them how much their debate on the colour just costed.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Chona1171 wrote:
like the submit button color
I hope you are exaggerating... that sounds pretty ridiculous. You should ask yourself the question whether it's actually your fault that you're falling asleep during such meetings. Part of being a good manager is being able to let other people make the right choices instead of trying to control everything. To my experience: If you're honest about how they should plan a meeting better instead of wasting everyone's time and energy with pointless discussions that should be taken by a designer in the first place, you will either earn respect; or they'll will be embarrassed/annoyed and that may lead to possibly getting fired. You have nothing to gain from working under an incompetent boss, so whatever happens is fine.
Giraffes are not real.
Well the new company i started working for is pretty cool in that regard , but its merely an example but it is noteworthy a couple of years ago I was working on a project where the color scheme and "dashboard layout" changed 4 times in a matter of 3 months , and i was sitting in 3 hour long webexes where this was the topic that covered the majority of the meeting, so yes I got annoyed with it. Needless to say that project didn't make it 1 inch off the ground. Lucky for me I quit the project before they where done with the spec phase.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
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Chona1171 wrote:
usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color
"I'll implement a property and assign a new default-value once the winner of your petty little debate on personal preferences is known and sends me the favourite colour of his wife by email. Please, stop disturbing the working force." ..but then in a somewhat nicer tone and a more tactic choice of words :rolleyes: --edit My apologies if the attitude offends, but the waste of resources is huge and should be terminated. If they don't understand, ask each person what he/she costs per hour. Now explain them how much their debate on the colour just costed.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Nueman wrote:
"You're not listening to me."
My ex used to use this on me all the time. Every single time that she did, I repeated back to her word-for-word exactly what she had said. There is a good reason she is the ex wife.
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy Please stand in front of my pistol, smile and wait for the flash - JSOP 2012
Clever. How do you hit the rewind button without her noticing the audio recorder?
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Clever. How do you hit the rewind button without her noticing the audio recorder?
AspDotNetDev wrote:
audio recorder
You would use one of the digital recorders that you conceal in the palm of your hand. The real trick is to have the recording playback with her words in your voice....
Why is common sense not common? Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level where they are an expert. Sometimes it takes a lot of work to be lazy Please stand in front of my pistol, smile and wait for the flash - JSOP 2012
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You make a good point. But its also good for a manager to be heard. and usually the problem being is that the mind tends to go faster than the speed of a meeting so after an hour most people tend to zone out.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
the speed of a meeting so after an hour most people tend to zone out
Means most people are not part of the discussion. Put the things that are important for everybody on top of the agenda, end the meeting when that part is done. Have the rest discuss their things in-depth on their own, without keeping the rest of work and boring the crap out of everyone.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: if you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
My response is usually "Sorry I was not listening to the drivel, can you repeat your question please". And if you think that is said in humour you would be incorrect! Also train your self to re-engage when the speaker changes, you need to be able to tune out 3 voices and click back in when a new voice impinges on your consciousness.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171, In '66 I was taking a Chemistry lecture class. It was a lecture only class for Chemical Engineering students but I needed this because I worked nights and went to school mornings, and slept afternoons (when all the labs were held). The lecture was at 10 AM, just about the time my body was shutting down, and staying awake was a real problem. Dr. Riser was tying to balance a chemical equation, and he had gone through three black boards. I awoke about that time and started looking at the first board and found an error in the third line. I raised my hand and said "Dr. Riser, you have an error on the first board at the third line." He stopped, turned around and looked at me, then went to the first board and corrected the error and balanced the equation in two more steps, and continued the lecture. After the class I left for my next class and passed by the lecture'rs exit door just as Dr. Riser came out. He looked at me again and said "I could have sworn that you were asleep!" But, he held no grudges. He later took three of us from the class aside and recommended that we three should go to the State board and take the Professional Chemical Engineers Exam and we would all pass it. Unfortunately, the exam was given in the afternoons so I never got to do that. Dave.
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Another chemistry funny. In '57 I was in Electrical Engineering at Marquette University. There was a BAD instructor, so bad that they would only let Electrical Engineers take his class (figuring that we could do the work on our own anyway). He was Tenured so they couldn't get rid of him. His lectures were DULL, and the only thing that kept us awake was that several of the students had their father's notebooks from when the fathers had taken the class years before. The note old books were almost exactly the same as the current lecture, down to the "jokes" he used. One of the students sat at the back top row and read from the notebook as the professor lectured, but just a few words before he said them. Talk about a riot! Then there was the lab. Macro analysis. I aced it, but... For the final in the lab, we were all given a sample and had to report what we had found in the sample. I saved out half of the sample, and then analyzed the remainder. I found nothing! I cleaned everything up, and started again on the saved half of the sample. Still nothing! I had no choice but to report what I had found so I reported that the sample contained "H2O". The lab assistant checked the sample number list and said "Well, at least you have clean test tubes - you are correct." The lab had given two of us (the sharp ones) in the class the same sample. The other poor shmuck reported that the sample contained "Nothing" and he failed the lab and had to take it again! Unfortunately, Marquette was on a quarter system (I left at the end of the second quarter, but that is another long story), and ASU would not accept the transfer credits so I had to take the Chemical Engineers course at ASU. Dave.
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
In a meeting, make a quick note of each new topic, so even if you don't follow the conversation, you can improvise when called on for input.
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Chona1171 wrote:
like the submit button color
I hope you are exaggerating... that sounds pretty ridiculous. You should ask yourself the question whether it's actually your fault that you're falling asleep during such meetings. Part of being a good manager is being able to let other people make the right choices instead of trying to control everything. To my experience: If you're honest about how they should plan a meeting better instead of wasting everyone's time and energy with pointless discussions that should be taken by a designer in the first place, you will either earn respect; or they'll will be embarrassed/annoyed and that may lead to possibly getting fired. You have nothing to gain from working under an incompetent boss, so whatever happens is fine.
Giraffes are not real.
Quote:
To my experience: If you're honest about how they should plan a meeting better instead of wasting everyone's time and energy with pointless discussions that should be taken by a designer in the first place, you will either earn respect; or they'll will be embarrassed/annoyed and that may lead to possibly getting fired. You have nothing to gain from working under an incompetent boss, so whatever happens is fine.
That is pretty much what I would recommend, too. In a good meeting everyone tries to stay on topic and only go to a degree of detail that everyone attending the meeting is able to understand. Everything else is a waste of someone’s time. Making (mental) notes - as mentioned by someone else before - is also a practice I use to stay focused. If you’re doing not only mentally it can provide you a nice summary that can come in handy.
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ".
Become "the manager" Whenever something similar happened to me I just answered I wasn't following. :-D (you'ld be surprised how "not negative" that is often taken) But seriously, it's normal hunan behavior, don't feel too bad about it.
V.
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Do the obvious: get involved in the discussion, say something constructive yet something following the managers' path of thoughts. Sounds stupid, but: 1. the discussion will be over in shorter time 2. you will learn what is important to them and you will better predict the possibility for this kind of discussion for next meeting for example: if the are discussing colors on ten meetings in row, make separate meeting, show them some nice color palettes and convince them that sticking to one choosen palette is a good thing. If you will manage to manipulate them to think that was their idea, you will have no color discussion anymore. ;)
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The truth shall set you free. :)
Too true, but in the current economic climate it may be a good idea to ensure you have something else lined up first ;-)
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
I'd improvise ... something like this ... "Superficially, it seems what we are considering would lend itself to one choice, or a few "best choice" candidates, from the choices presented and discussed today. But, actually: aren't we really raising a more fundamental issue related to the consistency of product interface design, based on the functionality we intend to offer the end-user, and the ways that end-users of products like ours have come to expect the interface to appear and behave, as it implements certain functionalities ? Yet, our intention is to innovate: is it not ? To produce something unique in look-and-feel, and yet even more usable for the end-user, to open vistas of functionality they've never seen, and yet make their presence subtly known ... rather than giving the end-user a "pie-in-the-face" jolt as they realize their new powers ? Should we step back from this microscopic analysis, and consider this specific question as one rung, on a ladder, leading-up to a higher-perspective of our product goals, and usability ?" I'd memorize this, and keep it handy as a "template," and be ready to change it, warp it, re-cast it, every time I said it. And of course you are capable of that, because: You are a Programmer ! best, Bill
"If you shoot at mimes, should you use a silencer ?" Stephen Wright
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Hi , I would like to discuss something that has become painfully apparent to me recently, I don't know if any of you experienced the same problem. Sometimes while sitting in the huge spec meeting , usually when two managers discuss something arb like the submit button color and your thoughts drifts off and goes designing the software architecture and maybe some cool features while you might be missing some key information. Any tips tricks one can use to stay on the ball and keep your mind on the game before your hear the chairman point a question at you having the only words your heard "So what are your thoughts on the matter ? ". Also some funny moments from personal experience would also be interesting to hear. I was in high-school when i was in a physics lecture when the teacher saw me dozing off and called me out to solve some problems on the board , lucky for me I was far head in my studies so was able to take it from there but lesson learned that if it was chemistry I would have been royally screwed.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight