Warp Drives Feasible in our life-time
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NASA starts development of real life star trek warp drive[^] Actually I Do have the power captain </ScottishAccent>
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The Eagleworks team has discovered that the energy requirements are much lower than previously thought. If they optimize the warp bubble thickness and "oscillate its intensity to reduce the stiffness of space time," they would be able to reduce the amount of fuel to manageable amount: instead of a Jupiter-sized ball of exotic matter, you will only need 500 kilograms to "send a 10-meter bubble (32.8 feet) at an effective velocity of 10c."
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
That' just conjecture so far..\ But even if it's only mathematical conjecture for a while, that's likely to be the most amazing mind warping exhilarating fucking unbelievable (not too mention blue sky thinking) science speculation of the last 100 years!!!
A train station is where the train stops. A bus station is where the bus stops. On my desk, I have a work station.... _________________________________________________________ My programs never have bugs, they just develop random features.
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Funny, I searched but could not find any mention of di-lithium crystals. Thought they were a critical component. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
they've been replaced by Flux Capacitors :-D
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
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Here is a bit more on this from Eagleworks Laboratories: Advanced Propulsion Physics Research[^] by Dr. Harold “Sonny” White, Paul March, Nehemiah Williams, William O’Neill NASA Johnson Space Center Houston, TX For those of us that enjoy this kind of stuff: Space Times[^] from American Astronautical Society
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Interesting, but I still see a couple of problems, even if it works as intended. Sending a signal back (and without doing that, what's the point?) will still either take 20 or 2 years, but in the 2 year case you'd need to send a warp ship back just to transmit the data. That's going to suck no matter what you do, unless subspace communication turns out to be a real thing. Also, from the moment we successfully test that warp drive, we'll have Vulcans looking over our shoulders while we get into all sorts of unlikely trouble.
harold aptroot wrote:
Also, from the moment we successfully test that warp drive, we'll have Vulcans looking over our shoulders while we get into all sorts of unlikely trouble.
Isn't that what ended all of the wars on Earth?
harold aptroot wrote:
Sending a signal back (and without doing that, what's the point?) will still either take 20 or 2 years, but in the 2 year case you'd need to send a warp ship back just to transmit the data.
Agree with the other post. Seems like at first you would just make warp drones.. Message in a bottle type thing that would go back and forth just for comm links.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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they've been replaced by Flux Capacitors :-D
Steve _________________ I C(++) therefore I am
Not tea-bags? :java:
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So they haven't actually made a "warp bubble", they don't know how to make a warp bubble, and they're not sure what the "exotic matter" is or how to find or fabricate it... but they can talk about Star Trek? Sounds like someone is looking for funding, so that they don't have to go out into the real world and do real jobs.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
they're not sure what the "exotic matter" is or how to find or fabricate it
Haven't looked into the white papers yet but I would assume the exotic material is the "Dark Matter" that is also being researched. http://news.discovery.com/space/new-study-re-confirms-evidence-for-dark-energy-120912.html[^] As for the warp bubbles... http://dvice.com/archives/2012/09/nasa-warp-drive.php[^] It's not like they are just assuming they exist and will show up. It is also an active area. While I don't know the details nor pretend to think I can even understand most of it, I for one am glad there are such great scientists out there that can take theoretical science and turn it into solid fields of study. While your point is valid, if we all just went through the motions to cash a pay check we would not progress very fast.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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harold aptroot wrote:
Also, from the moment we successfully test that warp drive, we'll have Vulcans looking over our shoulders while we get into all sorts of unlikely trouble.
Isn't that what ended all of the wars on Earth?
harold aptroot wrote:
Sending a signal back (and without doing that, what's the point?) will still either take 20 or 2 years, but in the 2 year case you'd need to send a warp ship back just to transmit the data.
Agree with the other post. Seems like at first you would just make warp drones.. Message in a bottle type thing that would go back and forth just for comm links.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Warp drones still suck IMO. While cheaper than a full ship with live support and such, they can't be cheap. And you'd have a limited number of them - producing more of them (forcing you to take a whole warp drive factory with you) does not seem realistic (yes I really just used that word) to me.
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I've always been interested in the idea of real warp drives (for example this one[^]). One thing I've always liked about Star Trek is that the science is mostly plausible (the details aren't always right, but the main ideas are usually close). I've also seen a few articles recently about how Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle isn't holding any more, one of the key scientific ideas making transporters impossible. I think this comic[^] sums up my feelings pretty well.
> how Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle isn't holding any more Ah, sorry, no :) . http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-is-not-dead&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_physics_20120309[^] "Heisenberg would be pleased that the limitation we can know about the world, which he aimed to expressed, was this time clearly revealed with the new rigorous, experimentally verified formulation. The new uncertainty relation between measurement error and disturbance is no more just conjecture, but physical law." What the experiments have shown is that Heisenbergs formula still holds, but you can perform measurements on a system without introducing (much) extra uncertainty. Previously it was believed that most, if not all, of the uncertainty was introduced by the act of measurement. What the new experiments show is that the Heisenberg uncertainty is a fundamental fact of the laws of physics. At least that is as far as I have understood it.
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Warp drones still suck IMO. While cheaper than a full ship with live support and such, they can't be cheap. And you'd have a limited number of them - producing more of them (forcing you to take a whole warp drive factory with you) does not seem realistic (yes I really just used that word) to me.
harold aptroot wrote:
While cheaper than a full ship with live support and such, they can't be cheap. And you'd have a limited number of them - producing more of them (forcing you to take a whole warp drive factory with you) does not seem realistic (yes I really just used that word) to me.
Not sure about that. Its not like the "drone" needs warp capability actually. Just the launcher does. The only thing that need be launched is the message itself. We tend to think "message in a bottle" and in this case it seems the bottle is the warp bubble. The message is the pure data or communication. For example a RF transmission. Once the warp bubble reaches its destination the RF signal propagates as it would have if there was no warp bubble, but it is then at its destination so only interpretation is left.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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harold aptroot wrote:
While cheaper than a full ship with live support and such, they can't be cheap. And you'd have a limited number of them - producing more of them (forcing you to take a whole warp drive factory with you) does not seem realistic (yes I really just used that word) to me.
Not sure about that. Its not like the "drone" needs warp capability actually. Just the launcher does. The only thing that need be launched is the message itself. We tend to think "message in a bottle" and in this case it seems the bottle is the warp bubble. The message is the pure data or communication. For example a RF transmission. Once the warp bubble reaches its destination the RF signal propagates as it would have if there was no warp bubble, but it is then at its destination so only interpretation is left.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Maybe someone is really against warp travel and holds dearly that anyone that speaks about it is a demon that shall be burned at the stake via 1 votes.... Or I just ticked off the usual crowd again (hmm guess they would be the same though ;P )
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Well sense it does not yet exist you are not alone :laugh: Using an actually "Messaging Ship" ( like a postal service ), maybe would be the first crack at it. Who knows right? But I would think the same tech that launches the probes and then people to other solar systems would be the same tech used to communicate with the launches systems... On a smaller scale (drones or just messages in a bubble).
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Collin Jasnoch wrote:
First off generating 500Kg is actually realistic...
I think what the article says is that carrying 500kg is realistic. We don't even know if the stuff exists so creating 500kg is just as hard as creating a planet of it is just as hard at this point. :laugh:
Curvature of the Mind now with 3D
We have about as much certainty of it existing as the Higgs particle (99.996%). But you do have a point. The idea was it is unrealistic to carry it... I would disagree about the creation though. It may be theoretical science, but that does not mean physics does not apply.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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Mark Wallace wrote:
they're not sure what the "exotic matter" is or how to find or fabricate it
Haven't looked into the white papers yet but I would assume the exotic material is the "Dark Matter" that is also being researched. http://news.discovery.com/space/new-study-re-confirms-evidence-for-dark-energy-120912.html[^] As for the warp bubbles... http://dvice.com/archives/2012/09/nasa-warp-drive.php[^] It's not like they are just assuming they exist and will show up. It is also an active area. While I don't know the details nor pretend to think I can even understand most of it, I for one am glad there are such great scientists out there that can take theoretical science and turn it into solid fields of study. While your point is valid, if we all just went through the motions to cash a pay check we would not progress very fast.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Dark matter is just stuff that doesn't give off the gigawatts of electromagnetic energy required for it to be seen with telescopes from Earth -- mainly rocks, dust, etc. (basically, anything that isn't a star). "Dark energy" is essentially the gravitational effect of all this stuff we can't see with telescopes, which has been given a cool name, because otherwise it's deathly boring, and shouldn't really be called an "energy" at all. Warp field theories all rely on "exotic matter", which is something that no-one has found, no-one knows what its properties are, and no-one knows anything about, really -- except that this miraculous, non-existent stuff can be used to allow us to go places quicker than we would be able to by actually travelling according to the laws of Physics. The stuff doesn't exist, so no-one can argue that you've got its properties wrong,and you can come up with all manner of weird and wonderful theories on what it will allow us to do -- turn water to wine, make cats talk, be used to form warp bubbles, etc. Other things like "exotic matter" have been conjectured in the past, like stuff for turning lead into gold, and stuff to weave into carpets to make them fly, and none of them have been any less credible than "exotic matter". Of course, if you're spending all your time on postulating what could be done with magical materials, you're not doing any actual science, and you're not advancing anything, but if your theories get out on the Internet, you'll get a lot of attention, no matter how idiotic the cr@p you spiel is -- if you can't become famous for actually discovering something, then try to become famous for having *Great* *Ideas*, no? Harry Potter would be so proud. When Physicists start basing their academic careers on postulating what we could do if we could find magic charms, I start thinking about how much of my tax money is paying for it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Funny, I searched but could not find any mention of di-lithium crystals. Thought they were a critical component. :)
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra] posting about Crystal Reports here is like discussing gay marriage on a catholic church’s website.[Nishant Sivakumar]
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Dark matter is just stuff that doesn't give off the gigawatts of electromagnetic energy required for it to be seen with telescopes from Earth -- mainly rocks, dust, etc. (basically, anything that isn't a star). "Dark energy" is essentially the gravitational effect of all this stuff we can't see with telescopes, which has been given a cool name, because otherwise it's deathly boring, and shouldn't really be called an "energy" at all. Warp field theories all rely on "exotic matter", which is something that no-one has found, no-one knows what its properties are, and no-one knows anything about, really -- except that this miraculous, non-existent stuff can be used to allow us to go places quicker than we would be able to by actually travelling according to the laws of Physics. The stuff doesn't exist, so no-one can argue that you've got its properties wrong,and you can come up with all manner of weird and wonderful theories on what it will allow us to do -- turn water to wine, make cats talk, be used to form warp bubbles, etc. Other things like "exotic matter" have been conjectured in the past, like stuff for turning lead into gold, and stuff to weave into carpets to make them fly, and none of them have been any less credible than "exotic matter". Of course, if you're spending all your time on postulating what could be done with magical materials, you're not doing any actual science, and you're not advancing anything, but if your theories get out on the Internet, you'll get a lot of attention, no matter how idiotic the cr@p you spiel is -- if you can't become famous for actually discovering something, then try to become famous for having *Great* *Ideas*, no? Harry Potter would be so proud. When Physicists start basing their academic careers on postulating what we could do if we could find magic charms, I start thinking about how much of my tax money is paying for it.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark Wallace wrote:
turn water to wine
Is that how he did that?
Mark Wallace wrote:
Of course, if you're spending all your time on postulating what could be done with magical materials, you're not doing any actual science, and you're not advancing anything
I understand your logic but simply disagree. Using working theories that it exists allow advancements that are applicable to other fields of research and also allow the targeted field to continue to progress. You do not find the concept of a Warp Field Interfermeter intriguing?
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
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> how Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle isn't holding any more Ah, sorry, no :) . http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=heisenbergs-uncertainty-principle-is-not-dead&WT.mc_id=SA_CAT_physics_20120309[^] "Heisenberg would be pleased that the limitation we can know about the world, which he aimed to expressed, was this time clearly revealed with the new rigorous, experimentally verified formulation. The new uncertainty relation between measurement error and disturbance is no more just conjecture, but physical law." What the experiments have shown is that Heisenbergs formula still holds, but you can perform measurements on a system without introducing (much) extra uncertainty. Previously it was believed that most, if not all, of the uncertainty was introduced by the act of measurement. What the new experiments show is that the Heisenberg uncertainty is a fundamental fact of the laws of physics. At least that is as far as I have understood it.
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Hasegawa's team is the first to have demonstrated the violation of Heisenberg's inequality and the validity of Ozawa's inequality.
The article quite clearly states Heisenberg's principle isn't holding up in recent experiments, but a related formula is.
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Oh my God, now what's next? Will the cat be shown to be EITHER alive or dead, but not the two at the same time? We are truly doomed... :omg: No, I am not confusing Heisenberg with Schrodinger, I am just providing an alternate example as to how things are going downhill
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To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Mark Wallace wrote:
turn water to wine
Is that how he did that?
Mark Wallace wrote:
Of course, if you're spending all your time on postulating what could be done with magical materials, you're not doing any actual science, and you're not advancing anything
I understand your logic but simply disagree. Using working theories that it exists allow advancements that are applicable to other fields of research and also allow the targeted field to continue to progress. You do not find the concept of a Warp Field Interfermeter intriguing?
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
Using working theories that it exists allow advancements that are applicable to other fields of research and also allow the targeted field to continue to progress
But it's Not Real. The definition of "exotic matter is "We don't know what it is, what its properties are, or what can be done with it -- but we invented the idea of it, so we'll decide what magic it can do". They can postulate any damned thing they like about such a magical substance. My theory is that exotic matter doesn't possess the properties needed to form a warp field, but it does possess properties that randomly and sporadically make pieces of coffee machines and single socks disappear. And that theory is far more credible as the warp-field theory, because pieces of coffee machines and single socks do disappear -- i.e there is actual empirical evidence to support it! (I'm gonna be RICH! Give me the grant money!) Physics is not "Oh, maybe one day we'll find a magical substance that will let us do miraculous things", it's "This is what we've got; what can we do with it?"
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
You do not find the concept of a Warp Field Interfermeter intriguing?
Are you kidding? There's nothing I'd like more than to see starships built -- but there are few things I like less than self-serving bullsh1t, and self-serving bullsh1t is all these "theories" are.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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Quote:
Hasegawa's team is the first to have demonstrated the violation of Heisenberg's inequality and the validity of Ozawa's inequality.
The article quite clearly states Heisenberg's principle isn't holding up in recent experiments, but a related formula is.
lewax00 wrote:
The article quite clearly states Heisenberg's principle isn't holding up in recent experiments, but a related formula is.
Yes, I can see that I was imprecise in my wording. As I understand it Heisenbergs principle still holds, but his formula/inequality has been violated. The formula by Kennard holds, but it is still the same principle - there is a fundamental limit to the precision of the data that we can obtain about a quantum system. To add to the confusion (quoting from SciAm): "The one that physicists use in everyday research and call Heisenberg's uncertainty principle is in fact Kennard's formulation. It is universally applicable and securely grounded in quantum theory. If it were violated experimentally, the whole of quantum mechanics would break down. Heisenberg's formulation, however, was proposed as conjecture, so quantum mechanics is not shaken by its violation." So physicists apparently confuse general principles and explicit formulas/inequalities too... :)