Sun does not like its own medicine.

Anna Jayne Metcalfe

Lol :laugh: It certainly is! Anna :rose: www.annasplace.me.uk

"Be yourself - not what others think you should be"
- Marcia Graesch

Trouble with resource IDs? Try the Resource ID Organiser Add-In for Visual C++

Philip Patrick

Giles wrote: Its what everyone has known for ages. Yep, but some said finally posted it :) Philip Patrick Web-site: www.stpworks.com "Two beer or not two beer?" Shakesbeer

Alex E

java is 12 times fast than c++[^]:laugh:

Anthony Roach

Ummm the joke is that Sun Developed Java. Just checking but from your response I guess you might not of heard. As for your example if I could be bothered it would take nanoseconds to provide an example that proves the exact opposite of that one. Anthony www.TonysOpenSource.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

ColinDavies

OMG: We had all better go save jave from becoming obsolete. You would have thought if JAVA was that much better then it would have had no worries about survival. Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign' Rob Manderson wrote:

Jon

If you read the entire thread you'll notice that the initial test is very flawed (it all gets optimized away), a more reasonable test towards the end of the thread showed that (predicitably) C++ is faster than Java.

Giles

Yep. The guy was an amature. I liked the first poster. He was very patient in his reply explaining that benchmaring was something that should be undertaken without a real understanding of the method used.

benjymous

Exactly. If you know two languages well then you'll be able to find an example that one does well at and one struggles with. If it's a tiny task that would normally only occur very occasionally then it really isn't going to make an impact. This is why benchmarks tend to be considered bad, as they'll only prove what the person who wrote the benchmark wanted to prove -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit!

Giles

Yes. But we all get those kind of people. Bless'em. :-D

ColinDavies

benjymous wrote: This is why benchmarks tend to be considered bad, as they'll only prove what the person who wrote the benchmark wanted to prove Well sometimes it does show the person who wrote the benchmark can't write benchmarks to prove what they wanted as well. :-) I'd rather see an independent problem posted by an independent then see two groups work head to head to have the best solution. Although this still is flawed and will not prove anything conclusively. Regardz Colin J Davies

Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin

I'm guessing the concept of a 2 hour movie showing two guys eating a meal and talking struck them as 'foreign' Rob Manderson wrote:

Marc Clifton

One problem is that every Java program relies on the installed Java Runtime Environment, and when packages are issued every four or five months, they destroy existing packages and can't be back-graded to the prior install. Let's see if Microsoft can avoid this with the .NET framework. It doesn't look good so far, in my opinion. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

Felix Gartsman

Jon wrote: a more reasonable test towards the end of the thread showed that (predicitably) C++ is faster than Java. Actually Java can outperform C++ in real applications. But Sun/MS JVMs are too weak for this. Research JVMs can perform much better with tweaks for specific applications. Which is related to second issue of programming style. How many know/understand how to program for GC environments? My bet is 0.1% of those using Java. Same goes for C#.

Senkwe Chanda

Hmmm, I have a hard time believing that those comments came from a Sun engineer. They don't seem to be well informed in the least. He says "Sun engineers think that Solaris gets in the way of implementing many software applications" It would be interesting to find out WHICH applications he's talking about. If he's talking about Java being too slow for some types of applications, well they've known that from the beginning. He says "A large number of bugs in Java end up being labelled unfixable compared to a much smaller number for C++." Dunno. It's hard to say what this means. C++ has been around longer than Java. *shrug* And the rest of the article just seems very amateurish. ASP.NET can never fail as working with it is like fitting bras to supermodels - it's one pleasure after the next - David Wulff

Richard Deeming

Marc Clifton wrote: It doesn't look good so far, in my opinion. :confused: Looking at the list of breaking changes for v1.1, I can't see anything major. http://www.gotdotnet.com/team/changeinfo/Backwards1.0to1.1/default.aspx[^]

"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer

Marc Clifton

Ah, I understand your confusion. I wasn't refering to the feature list, but to the likelihood of .NET framework updates every 3-6 months. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

Senkwe Chanda

Are you talking about running apps built with different framework versions on the same machine? ASP.NET can never fail as working with it is like fitting bras to supermodels - it's one pleasure after the next - David Wulff

Marc Clifton

Not just that. In some lounge discussions, several people have pointed out the corporate reluctance to deal the issue of upgrades, the 20MB footprint, framework instabilities, and other maintenance issues. Marc Help! I'm an AI running around in someone's f*cked up universe simulator.
Sensitivity and ethnic diversity means celebrating difference, not hiding from it. - Christian Graus
Every line of code is a liability - Taka Muraoka
Microsoft deliberately adds arbitrary layers of complexity to make it difficult to deliver Windows features on non-Windows platforms--Microsoft's "Halloween files"

Senkwe Chanda

Felix Gartsman wrote: Actually Java can outperform C++ in real applications You mean badly written or non-optimized C++ applications. But that's good enough in most cases anyway :-) ASP.NET can never fail as working with it is like fitting bras to supermodels - it's one pleasure after the next - David Wulff

Kastellanos Nikos

Felix Gartsman wrote: Actually Java can outperform C++ in real applications. No Way!!! ;P :laugh: Felix Gartsman wrote: Research JVMs can perform much better with tweaks for specific applications. No problem with that. Allready every decent JAVA applications installs it's own copy of prefered JRE version, why not install it's very own tweaked implementation? I must been stupid for programming in C++, since JAVA is both simpler and faster. :rolleyes: - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Memory leaks is the price we pay \0 01234567890123456789012345678901234

Senkwe Chanda

Yeah I know what you mean :-) Actually the running versions 1.0 and 1.1 of the .NET framework on the same machine is a total non issue. There are a few gotchas that you have to watch out for but those have been outlined already by MS. As for the 20MB download...yeah I see that as a problem for average end-users, but in a corporate setting the argument doesn't fly (at least not with me). You get one guy to download the package, burn it and share it on the network. I can't see how that is a headache. Perhaps I'm a little TOO patient :-) ASP.NET can never fail as working with it is like fitting bras to supermodels - it's one pleasure after the next - David Wulff