.NET is killing natural of programming from inside !?
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
Comming from a COBOL world where our motto was "Why use one line when two will do", I love the simplicity of .NET
Ger
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.NET has lasted ten years now (V1.1 came out with VS2003!) which is pretty good going these days. Yes, it makes MS money - but it's not quite as bad as Office, where you have to update your whole company because one of your customers upgraded and you can't read their documents any more! :mad: Don't get me wrong - I came up through the machine-code/assembler/c/c++ route after starting Uni with COBOL and FORTRAN - it's not the best it could be. But it does cut development and maintenance time considerably by removing the need to recode and retest a linked list every time, and a string class, and a ... It's certainly a shed load better than MFC ever was!
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
OriginalGriff wrote:
It's certainly a shed load better than MFC ever was!
Most things are :-\
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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i dnt code in assembly but its my dream ! :) i know languages try to become OOP and i dnt say .NET is bad thing , OOP like C# (my favourite) is interesting thing becouse my class can have childs,dady and ... i just asked its not good if we go more down into programming and if we know anything that we make is completly writen by ourselves not just a little part? (biggest part writen by .net programmers)
source.compiler wrote:
i dnt code in assembly but its my dream !
When you start learning it, beware of tutorials about 16bit x86. It's unnecessarily complex. The silly (by todays standards) memory model, all the missing instructions and the severely restricted memory operand encoding are all things you can learn later if you really want, but they can easily overwhelm a beginner. Just jump right into 32bit. Or into something other than x86.
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OriginalGriff wrote:
It's certainly a shed load better than MFC ever was!
Most things are :-\
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
True, especially the early versions which were a horror to work with. I used to compare it to gouging your own eyes out with a rusty spoon...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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source.compiler wrote:
i dnt code in assembly but its my dream !
When you start learning it, beware of tutorials about 16bit x86. It's unnecessarily complex. The silly (by todays standards) memory model, all the missing instructions and the severely restricted memory operand encoding are all things you can learn later if you really want, but they can easily overwhelm a beginner. Just jump right into 32bit. Or into something other than x86.
harold aptroot wrote:
Or into something other than x86
Z80 is a good (if rather old) start, or 68000. Avoid ARM for beginners (it's truly lovely to work with, but if that's a RISC instruction set I'm a lump of cheese), and any PC based Intel processor until you have got into the mindset of assembler. PIC is good, but a pain to learn on because it relies on the hardware so much and you end up debugging both at the same time...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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So am I. Low level code is fun to do: I have been involved with embedded software for most of my working life. But there is very, very little satisfaction from reinventing the wheel - particularly if you do it over and over with each new programming job you do. .NET allows you to focus on your code, your task - without having to write a combobox from scratch (which is a very,. very dull thing to do and get right). It's about freeing your time and making your effort more effective. Yes, it is a very good idea to know what is going on "behind the scenes" - but it shouldn't be the only thing you try to do! And you don't have to be rich to code with .NET, even as a complete amateur - each and every version of VS has included free Express editions which miss out very little that an amateur would need.
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
i said many times! i like .NET and microsoft ,But as you said yourself ! .NET is a product to help us to make our product simply! and if i make a combobox, i compile it as DLL , and will use it on my next projects! its deifference with .net is, I MADE MY OWN Control AND i will use my own ! actually after making it , i know how make it , so its will increase my programming skill ! (ofcourse we can read many Articles but discovering by ourselves has another taste)
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True, especially the early versions which were a horror to work with. I used to compare it to gouging your own eyes out with a rusty spoon...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
In the early 90'ies I was over in the land of OS/2 - where we had the IBM Open Class[^] library, MQ Series and DB/2. Returning to the world of MFC & Access was a culture shock - but thanks to Delphi & C++ Builder I didn't run away screaming - I also lucked out and had a number of customers that understood the difference between Access and the Oracle RDBMS - I also had one that didn't, and wanted a 16-bit Access version of the product too - I should have said no, but didn't. :-\
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
What's a line ?
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i said many times! i like .NET and microsoft ,But as you said yourself ! .NET is a product to help us to make our product simply! and if i make a combobox, i compile it as DLL , and will use it on my next projects! its deifference with .net is, I MADE MY OWN Control AND i will use my own ! actually after making it , i know how make it , so its will increase my programming skill ! (ofcourse we can read many Articles but discovering by ourselves has another taste)
Yes - and the guy working next to you has also done his own. So when you try to work on his code...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
source.compiler wrote:
i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines!
And in Perl, you can write an entire application with one line of code.
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Yes - and the guy working next to you has also done his own. So when you try to work on his code...
If you get an email telling you that you can catch Swine Flu from tinned pork then just delete it. It's Spam.
exactly ! anyone can have his/her own! i am not judging this ! if every beginner accustom to use ready codes, so next races of programmers are too lazy , and become far from real programming! i scare in next versions of .NET , we use wizards to make anythings! actually .NET is a gift to making money! and i like it! if i code for fun, i try to write more codes!
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What's a line ?
it is hierarchy of methods invokes! :)
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source.compiler wrote:
i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines!
And in Perl, you can write an entire application with one line of code.
good feature!
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source.compiler wrote:
i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines!
And in Perl, you can write an entire application with one line of code.
Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:
you can write an entire application with one line of code.
Yes:
print "Hello world!\n";
In some cases, my signature will be longer than my message...
<em style="color:red"> <b>ProgramFOX</b></em>
ProgramFOX
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source.compiler wrote:
i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines!
And in Perl, you can write an entire application with one line of code.
In C-like languages as well -- provided there are no directives.
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
The important thing is implementing the required functionality. The next thing to consider is that your bug density is usually fairly constant, ie #bugs/line of code. Thus anything that reduces the lines of code while still implementing the functionality is a good thing. Because I keep learning new things about the .NET Framework, and I've been using it since V1Beta, and all the great OSS libraries being developed, some days my number of lines of code is negative. When this happens I think its great because the code is now simpler to understand, easier to maintain, and usually more robust. Until they invent a compiler that does what I want instead of what I say, the more pieces of Lego of different sizes I get to string together to create working programs, the better.
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
Yes, I'd much rather draw every button with fifty lines of code each.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
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its just a private idea , really .net is not killing natural of programming? i mean in .net sometimes with one line you can do something wich needs more than 10 lines! it makes programming so simple and faster but in this situations i dnt feel im programming really ! maybe because my codes complete so fast :laugh: ! whats your idea? agree or not?
I agree with you (partly). When I started programming in C# AND .NET - coming from C++, MFC and ADO - It all felt sooooooooooooo easy. But as time passed I realized that .NET had taken all the "wheels" we keep reinventing and put them in a tried and tested library (where they belong), leaving us with more time to program the interesting bits (whatever they are in each programmers mind). Best of all - with so many programmers out there using .NET, finding information is just a "google" away. To get back to your question/point - Is .NET killing programming from the inside. I would say -yes- and -no- .NET is now a field of knowledge by itself - a programmer does not have to understand how things work inside .NET - this makes it very easy for someone to start using it. That is both good and bad - good because it's (almost) zero learning curve - bad because without knowledge of how things work inside .NET it becomes very easy to write inefficient programs.
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I'm sure there are much worse things eo begin with than .Net. Still, it's a little like thinking that you become a great engineer by playing with Lego.
CDP1802 wrote:
like thinking that you become a great engineer by playing with Lego.
Agree 100% - my 5! Andy B
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I agree with you (partly). When I started programming in C# AND .NET - coming from C++, MFC and ADO - It all felt sooooooooooooo easy. But as time passed I realized that .NET had taken all the "wheels" we keep reinventing and put them in a tried and tested library (where they belong), leaving us with more time to program the interesting bits (whatever they are in each programmers mind). Best of all - with so many programmers out there using .NET, finding information is just a "google" away. To get back to your question/point - Is .NET killing programming from the inside. I would say -yes- and -no- .NET is now a field of knowledge by itself - a programmer does not have to understand how things work inside .NET - this makes it very easy for someone to start using it. That is both good and bad - good because it's (almost) zero learning curve - bad because without knowledge of how things work inside .NET it becomes very easy to write inefficient programs.
