.NET is killing natural of programming from inside !?

[ali_heidari_]

exactly ! anyone can have his/her own! i am not judging this ! if every beginner accustom to use ready codes, so next races of programmers are too lazy , and become far from real programming! i scare in next versions of .NET , we use wizards to make anythings! actually .NET is a gift to making money! and i like it! if i code for fun, i try to write more codes!

[ali_heidari_]

it is hierarchy of methods invokes! :)

[ali_heidari_]

good feature!

[Thomas Daniels]

Nemanja Trifunovic wrote:

you can write an entire application with one line of code.

Yes:

print "Hello world!\n";

In some cases, my signature will be longer than my message...

<em style="color:red"> <b>ProgramFOX</b></em>

ProgramFOX

[PIEBALDconsult]

In C-like languages as well -- provided there are no directives.

[Matthew Dennis]

The important thing is implementing the required functionality. The next thing to consider is that your bug density is usually fairly constant, ie #bugs/line of code. Thus anything that reduces the lines of code while still implementing the functionality is a good thing. Because I keep learning new things about the .NET Framework, and I've been using it since V1Beta, and all the great OSS libraries being developed, some days my number of lines of code is negative. When this happens I think its great because the code is now simpler to understand, easier to maintain, and usually more robust. Until they invent a compiler that does what I want instead of what I say, the more pieces of Lego of different sizes I get to string together to create working programs, the better.

[Mark_Wallace]

Yes, I'd much rather draw every button with fifty lines of code each.

I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!

[Snorri Kristjansson]

I agree with you (partly). When I started programming in C# AND .NET - coming from C++, MFC and ADO - It all felt sooooooooooooo easy. But as time passed I realized that .NET had taken all the "wheels" we keep reinventing and put them in a tried and tested library (where they belong), leaving us with more time to program the interesting bits (whatever they are in each programmers mind). Best of all - with so many programmers out there using .NET, finding information is just a "google" away. To get back to your question/point - Is .NET killing programming from the inside. I would say -yes- and -no- .NET is now a field of knowledge by itself - a programmer does not have to understand how things work inside .NET - this makes it very easy for someone to start using it. That is both good and bad - good because it's (almost) zero learning curve - bad because without knowledge of how things work inside .NET it becomes very easy to write inefficient programs.

[LabVIEWstuff]

CDP1802 wrote:

like thinking that you become a great engineer by playing with Lego.

Agree 100% - my 5! Andy B

[dusty_dex]

If PC BIOS remains in place, how do these .NET *application programmers* expect to write a boot loader or contribute to the Linux kernel etc? It's dumbing down (squandering the talent ) of a whole generation of coders.

[Tasadit]

No, it's the internet that is killing off programming skills! "Plz give me codez" We're the victims of our own success :-(

[ali_heidari_]

in the end, anything is rely to person, if he/she wanna learn?!? should not use internet or anything else badly, should not copy paste, must read,understand,write by yourself ! products and technologies that provided for developers, are like a knife, you can kill someone(yourself) or make a delicious food and live strongly! :) so use them correctly!

[Member 9167057]

I disagree. The programmer's job is not to crank out code, but to solve problems. And if you can solve a specific problem within 1 line where it normally takes 10, then you're just a better programmer. Picking the most effecive tools is a part of skill in craftsmanship and/or arts. And after solving a problem, the boss is happy that you didn't take long and will just assign you another problem.

[Pablo Ariel]

You simply are not smart enough to write that code properly, then you have to rewrite it so many times again and again. If you were smart enough, you could simply write that code once and you wouldn't need to use .NET, C# or Java or whatever imaginary fancy language or interface is available. If you prefer their code against yours then your code is not good enough and I don't think I could rely in your opinion as you are talking bad things about your own code. .NET only provides a lot of general functionality that is only required when the programmer is inexperienced or simply can't learn more than he already knows. For experienced programmers, .NET it's a pile of creeps as it just adds unnecessary complexity, unacceptable process overhead, portability issues, management issues, higher costs, slower development times for high-end applications and a lot more of inconvenients that you won't have if you work with standard or native languages and write your own functions optimized for the job required. But hey, of course most people will want .NET, because most people is not an expert. If experts were majority among programmers, these kind of discussions wouldn't exist :)

[John Atten]

One of the vaunted goals of OOP is code re-use. It seems to me that this is the dichotomy of advanced frameworks and libraries - once evolved to a certain level, it begins to feel like "programmers" are becoming "API Experts." In addition, people learning to code in these environments (this includes myself, as a self-taught developer) may miss some crucial concepts, unless they pursue lower-level learning on their own (I do). in simplifying the development process through code reuse and frameworks, we also, in a manner of speaking, eliminate the requirement to know and understand lower-level operations. The level of abstraction is sufficiently high that it becomes easy to forget that there is a whole lot going on under the covers. I experience a sense of personal dismay AND relief that I will likely never become fully fluent in pointer arithmetic, and/or assembly. I do seek to learn about such things, as I feel it is important to understand what is happening further down the call stack, near the metal. Will I ever have to write production code using those constructs? Unlikely.

[marc bellario]

a problem with .net is that it's almost a complete duplicate of java from top to toe, with some difference, which of course did reduce the java code out there - but now you have two code bases that are only slightly different. real men only code in lisp or haskell, anyway. and real women always use (obj c?) - well, cobol was developed by a woman. if some one ( like oracle ) developed a vm that ran java and c#, that would be an interesting development/but microsoft would sue for $1,000,000,000.00 or maybe 1.5/!/!/!/ Google could buy microsoft and do it, but they are too busy these days making cell phones and they could never merge that culture which would throw a lot of people back into the job market. intel could build a processor that would run c# or java, but only the defense dept would buy it. However, the sad story is that java guys write java, and c# guys write c# and they hardly ever write to each other. actually i don't think .net will kill i.t. we can still find some paper tape readers if we need, too. what could kill i.t. is really good cheap scotch, but that most likely would end badly.

[Miguel Alfonso Abreu Ortega]

No at all. You can feel free to deep down even in the .Net code using any decompiling tool. I always like to master all things that i use in the framework. But in the moment that you have all the knowledge covered you will be graceful of simply using it instead of coding in all your programs.

[B Clay Shannon]

Were you against digital clocks when they came out, too? I find it odd that somebody would prefer things be more difficult; programming is always challenging enough, no matter how much easier it gets, because there is constant demand to learn new technologies, paradigms, patterns, frameworks, etc.

[patbob]

Depends on what you think programming is all about. I happen to think it's about having a computer solve a problem. The quicker that solution is delivered into the customers' hands, the better. If you're not feeling challenged, then maybe you need to work on solving harder problems... or maybe you're missing something about the ones you are solving.

We can program with only 1's, but if all you've got are zeros, you've got nothing.

[Thornik]

If you're from BDSM, then yes, .NET programming makes not so much pain. :) But .NET(C#) made me free from a biggest headache of development: routine sh*t with memory. I pray to not return ever on a C/C++ development!!