I'm still angry with Microsoft.
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Well... I just found out that Visual Studio 2012 has no Setup Project template integrated...:doh: Your possibilities are: Install a commercial product or search for any other possibility to install something... Why the f*** did they drop the visual studio installer project?? for any simple project I made it provided everything I needed and was easy to use...
We publish all our desktop apps using ClickOnce, which is built into Visual Studio. It is so much easier than the installer. Easier for the developer to set up and publish new versions of the app. Easier for the user because we configure it so that apps always check for updates when the app starts and automatically applies the update if one is available. We use this for desktop apps distributed to people who work at our office and for an app we developed that is run by external people across the country.
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I was just contacted by a home user who wanted to know if she could access a Silverlight application from home on her Macintosh computer. I told her to give it a try. A few minutes later she sent me a very nice email just pleased as she could be that she didn't have to make the trip into work to complete a tiny 10 minute chore before leaving for vacation. It was a wonderful warm & fuzzy moment. Yesterday I had a user all excited about the fact that they can sort a data grid by two or more columns by holding the shift key. Magic that works right out of the box. No other applications that we have are able to work that tiny miracle so easily. With Silverlight I have the means to quickly deliver an identical experience to people across a wide variety of platforms - my customers like it and I as a developer enjoy the environment. I guess with all that success there is no better time for Microsoft to abandon the technology and chase after the steaming pile of bullshit that is the HTML stack. Hell, I love the idea of learning a dozen different languages and technologies just so I can deliver a crappy, inconsistent product to my customers. Yeah, that's a winning plan. I so look forward to the standards being finalized in 8 more years.... that's progress. PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards. And yes, I know I've posted similar rants before. It still makes me mad though.
From what I understand MS is abandoning Silverlight because they no longer need to compete with Adobe Flash as an addon for the majority of hand held devices that are currently in use because they don't allow addons. However the MS developer community and many large companies have embraced Silverlight as the UI of choice. Silverlight is widely used and is a fantastic product. I think MS is making a knee-jerk reaction and needs to realize that there is no reason to give up on Silverlight.
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I was just contacted by a home user who wanted to know if she could access a Silverlight application from home on her Macintosh computer. I told her to give it a try. A few minutes later she sent me a very nice email just pleased as she could be that she didn't have to make the trip into work to complete a tiny 10 minute chore before leaving for vacation. It was a wonderful warm & fuzzy moment. Yesterday I had a user all excited about the fact that they can sort a data grid by two or more columns by holding the shift key. Magic that works right out of the box. No other applications that we have are able to work that tiny miracle so easily. With Silverlight I have the means to quickly deliver an identical experience to people across a wide variety of platforms - my customers like it and I as a developer enjoy the environment. I guess with all that success there is no better time for Microsoft to abandon the technology and chase after the steaming pile of bullshit that is the HTML stack. Hell, I love the idea of learning a dozen different languages and technologies just so I can deliver a crappy, inconsistent product to my customers. Yeah, that's a winning plan. I so look forward to the standards being finalized in 8 more years.... that's progress. PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards. And yes, I know I've posted similar rants before. It still makes me mad though.
MehGerbil wrote:
PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards.
Interesting that you should put it that way. I couldn't have said it better. Fairly recently (after playing with Microsoft's latest "stuff") I realized that it simply isn't a direction that I want to go. I'm hunkering down with my system and tools that I've paid for exactly as they are and plan to stick with them for the long haul. I develop to the desktop and the web. Unless something major changes (I mean a complete platform re-design of the web or something) these tools will last for a long, long time. I'm done chasing the upgrade curve. It's going to be a LONG time before a Winforms or Web application won't run on just about any machine I care to deliver it to. Since making that decision I have been highly productive and creative again instead of wasting time evaluating, installing and uninstalling all these new tools. I'm not against "progress" but some days I view the changes taking place not as progress but mainly a re-design of everything so they can just sell more of 'em. -CB
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Well... I just found out that Visual Studio 2012 has no Setup Project template integrated...:doh: Your possibilities are: Install a commercial product or search for any other possibility to install something... Why the f*** did they drop the visual studio installer project?? for any simple project I made it provided everything I needed and was easy to use...
I worked as an install developer for over four years for a large shop--yes,I actually spent 8+ hrs/day doing nothing but install dev. Because I now work for a small company w/many small projects, I made heavy use of the VS Setup template because it was quick and easy. When I ran into the sun-setting of Setup templates, I did a systematic search for a 3rd-party installer. While I did find several products that would have worked, the best value for me was Advanced Installer by Caphyon. The Pro version is just $299, it's easy to use, it works, and the vendor publishes frequent updates with fixes and enhancements. They also have bigger dollar versions in case I ever need it, and a free version. I was able to do things like consolidate 32- and 64-bit installs into a single installer, easily install two windows services (I wrote in VB.NET) in a single installer, specify pre- and post-build actions just like in VS build, and launch my install builds from the cmd line using VS post-build actions. It's not the Holy Grail, but worth every penny. And no, I don't work for Caphyon. Hope this helps.
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The LE means Look Elsewhere.
I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
MehGerbil wrote:
PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards.
Interesting that you should put it that way. I couldn't have said it better. Fairly recently (after playing with Microsoft's latest "stuff") I realized that it simply isn't a direction that I want to go. I'm hunkering down with my system and tools that I've paid for exactly as they are and plan to stick with them for the long haul. I develop to the desktop and the web. Unless something major changes (I mean a complete platform re-design of the web or something) these tools will last for a long, long time. I'm done chasing the upgrade curve. It's going to be a LONG time before a Winforms or Web application won't run on just about any machine I care to deliver it to. Since making that decision I have been highly productive and creative again instead of wasting time evaluating, installing and uninstalling all these new tools. I'm not against "progress" but some days I view the changes taking place not as progress but mainly a re-design of everything so they can just sell more of 'em. -CB
I think what I find astonishing about the whole thing is that Apple is making a huge killing with an incredibly closed environment. The 'write once, run everywhere' mantra sounds good on the surface but I just don't see where end users care about that sort of thing. Most people just want what they have to work and that's about it. Despite the conventional wisdom, the fact that Apple stuff doesn't work everywhere has resulted in... *drum roll please* ... more sales for Apple. (Setting aside the fact that write once, run everywhere has always been a bit of a lie. No serious business application can be pared down from a 22" monitor to a 4" smart phone without quite a bit of extra work) If I were Microsoft I'd make sure that I had a standards compliant HTML5 development environment and I'd slavishly support it on every form factor. No doubt that is required. In fact, I'd produce a lite version of Visual Studio that was little more than a HTML5/CSS text editor and give it away for free. The difference is that I'd still develop Silverlight and make sure that it is better than HTML 5 in every way that that it runs better on Win Phone, Win Tablets, and Win PCs. While the W3C was still busy trying to find their own asses with their hands tied behind their backs I'd be rolling out fantastic stuff in Silverlight. Microsoft has the money and power to do both of these things very well.
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I have only one copy of Visual Studio left on my computers. Once the things I have to finish up are done, this copy will also be going to East Hyperspace. They wanted to make certain that we all follow their great ideas, instead they assured that I forget about them as quickly as possible. Even if they realize what went wrong at some point, I still don't trust them anymore. They will do it all over again at the next opportunity. Just stop giving your money to Mickeysoft and look for someone who does not treat you like a fool.
Sent from my BatComputer via HAL 9000 and M5
Sounds like you didn't have to go through the pain that was Visual Basic. The file formats changed between 1.0 and 2.0, eventually you couldn't read 1.0 source files with later versions. And then there were the wonderful 3rd party components that came with 3.0 that were then replaced with incompatible versions from Microsoft. You had to jump through hoops to get them plugged back in. Worst of all, you couldn't have different versions of VB installed on the same box. At least Visual Studio lets other version coexist. The '90s felt like a treadmill where you had to work like crazy just to stay in the same place.
Psychosis at 10 Film at 11 Those who do not remember the past, are doomed to repeat it. Those who do not remember the past, cannot build upon it.
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Yeah... it should be there... but... the project doesn't show up there ... I suppose that's because the AddIn Project is declared as Class Library Project and hasn't an executable.
It should still work. Not sure why it doesn't.
Bob Dole
The internet is a great way to get on the net.
:doh: 2.0.82.7292 SP6a
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Yeah... it should be there... but... the project doesn't show up there ... I suppose that's because the AddIn Project is declared as Class Library Project and hasn't an executable.
Strangely, it works for me. What versions of VS and WiX are you using? Do you have the latest updates?
Bob Dole
The internet is a great way to get on the net.
:doh: 2.0.82.7292 SP6a
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I think what I find astonishing about the whole thing is that Apple is making a huge killing with an incredibly closed environment. The 'write once, run everywhere' mantra sounds good on the surface but I just don't see where end users care about that sort of thing. Most people just want what they have to work and that's about it. Despite the conventional wisdom, the fact that Apple stuff doesn't work everywhere has resulted in... *drum roll please* ... more sales for Apple. (Setting aside the fact that write once, run everywhere has always been a bit of a lie. No serious business application can be pared down from a 22" monitor to a 4" smart phone without quite a bit of extra work) If I were Microsoft I'd make sure that I had a standards compliant HTML5 development environment and I'd slavishly support it on every form factor. No doubt that is required. In fact, I'd produce a lite version of Visual Studio that was little more than a HTML5/CSS text editor and give it away for free. The difference is that I'd still develop Silverlight and make sure that it is better than HTML 5 in every way that that it runs better on Win Phone, Win Tablets, and Win PCs. While the W3C was still busy trying to find their own asses with their hands tied behind their backs I'd be rolling out fantastic stuff in Silverlight. Microsoft has the money and power to do both of these things very well.
You know, the thing (to me) that seems to hamstring us developers is that we get convinced by the marketing forces that be that we have to be "everything to everybody". The idea of "write once run anywhere" sounds good but in actual practice it's just not likely to happen. Where in the rule book (if there is one) does it say that by being a developer you have to be able to produce something that will run on absolutely everything, everywhere, huh? For the longest time I was caught up in the idea only relatively recently discarding it as impractical. You might say that I've finally "smelled the coffee" on this one. (It only took me 36 years in the industry to really "get it"). :rolleyes:
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I was just contacted by a home user who wanted to know if she could access a Silverlight application from home on her Macintosh computer. I told her to give it a try. A few minutes later she sent me a very nice email just pleased as she could be that she didn't have to make the trip into work to complete a tiny 10 minute chore before leaving for vacation. It was a wonderful warm & fuzzy moment. Yesterday I had a user all excited about the fact that they can sort a data grid by two or more columns by holding the shift key. Magic that works right out of the box. No other applications that we have are able to work that tiny miracle so easily. With Silverlight I have the means to quickly deliver an identical experience to people across a wide variety of platforms - my customers like it and I as a developer enjoy the environment. I guess with all that success there is no better time for Microsoft to abandon the technology and chase after the steaming pile of bullshit that is the HTML stack. Hell, I love the idea of learning a dozen different languages and technologies just so I can deliver a crappy, inconsistent product to my customers. Yeah, that's a winning plan. I so look forward to the standards being finalized in 8 more years.... that's progress. PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards. And yes, I know I've posted similar rants before. It still makes me mad though.
I used to think like that, what a letdown was such a decision, since then I'm full time focused on WP and W8 so I could reuse skills, and fortunately I got a job where I can just do that. Now I have a different perspective because I believe the very reasons Microsoft droped Silverlight were: 1. They were not winning against HTML as web platform standard 2. For XAML/C# to win as a UI platform everywhere they have to aim for native apps first, starting from their own flagship product: Windows 3. The HTML strategy in W8 is to attract web developers and eventually they will end up developing more native apps than web apps. I think at the end of the day HTML can't beat native in any platform, think Phonegap for example, so I think Microsoft is not joining the web standards completely, they are supporting native apps and while doing so they are empowering their own platform and others so web use in mobile is coming to an end subtly. I think that's more clever than being stubborn about Silverlight. And by the way, I believe they are supporting Xamarin heavily because of this, supporting native we all win :cool: The people saying HTML is the future, well, they are already living in the past in my opinion :)
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I was just contacted by a home user who wanted to know if she could access a Silverlight application from home on her Macintosh computer. I told her to give it a try. A few minutes later she sent me a very nice email just pleased as she could be that she didn't have to make the trip into work to complete a tiny 10 minute chore before leaving for vacation. It was a wonderful warm & fuzzy moment. Yesterday I had a user all excited about the fact that they can sort a data grid by two or more columns by holding the shift key. Magic that works right out of the box. No other applications that we have are able to work that tiny miracle so easily. With Silverlight I have the means to quickly deliver an identical experience to people across a wide variety of platforms - my customers like it and I as a developer enjoy the environment. I guess with all that success there is no better time for Microsoft to abandon the technology and chase after the steaming pile of bullshit that is the HTML stack. Hell, I love the idea of learning a dozen different languages and technologies just so I can deliver a crappy, inconsistent product to my customers. Yeah, that's a winning plan. I so look forward to the standards being finalized in 8 more years.... that's progress. PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards. And yes, I know I've posted similar rants before. It still makes me mad though.
Oh, I also found recently that VS2012 find/replace dialog uses other RegEx dialect than VS2010. That is just so nice :|
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I was just contacted by a home user who wanted to know if she could access a Silverlight application from home on her Macintosh computer. I told her to give it a try. A few minutes later she sent me a very nice email just pleased as she could be that she didn't have to make the trip into work to complete a tiny 10 minute chore before leaving for vacation. It was a wonderful warm & fuzzy moment. Yesterday I had a user all excited about the fact that they can sort a data grid by two or more columns by holding the shift key. Magic that works right out of the box. No other applications that we have are able to work that tiny miracle so easily. With Silverlight I have the means to quickly deliver an identical experience to people across a wide variety of platforms - my customers like it and I as a developer enjoy the environment. I guess with all that success there is no better time for Microsoft to abandon the technology and chase after the steaming pile of bullshit that is the HTML stack. Hell, I love the idea of learning a dozen different languages and technologies just so I can deliver a crappy, inconsistent product to my customers. Yeah, that's a winning plan. I so look forward to the standards being finalized in 8 more years.... that's progress. PRO TIP FOR MICROSOFT: Vision isn't following other's lead. Vision is often recognizing that you've the winning hand right NOW and simply going with it. Retards. And yes, I know I've posted similar rants before. It still makes me mad though.
All I know is that I spend more time configuring .Net and less time writing code these days. I agree that the standard Desktop and Web apps will be around for a long time, at least until some new MS OS comes out and makes the Federal and State governments add some mass quantities of patches/misery. Nice, their trying something new, but why not just improve on the good, existing, and since we worked like hell to make them working/reliable .Net IDE tools. I program from Main Frames to desktops/webs, to include Cobol,C#,vb.net,old vb6; last thing I want to do is learn some new code for some spiffy flashy Krappy app. True, everytime MS does come up with something good, they either quit supporting it or make a miserable attempt to improve it. Maybe its the high turnover up there in Redmond;
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Well... I just found out that Visual Studio 2012 has no Setup Project template integrated...:doh: Your possibilities are: Install a commercial product or search for any other possibility to install something... Why the f*** did they drop the visual studio installer project?? for any simple project I made it provided everything I needed and was easy to use...