The cost of software
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You bring up a good point. Advertising is the other leg of revenue in mobile. Anyone making any money from advertising on mobile apps? Would be interested in what the numbers are in terms of revenue versus downloads. From what I've read it's still miniscule income for all but the lucky few.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I make around £30 a month on advertising on my non-mobile TeboCam app website. Barely enough for beer... I have suspicions that google may not be entirely honest on click rate :^)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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I make around £30 a month on advertising on my non-mobile TeboCam app website. Barely enough for beer... I have suspicions that google may not be entirely honest on click rate :^)
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
More likely it just is what it is. I mean, how many ads do you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
My primary concern is the devaluation of our skill set over time.
I definitely second that as in my work not only do I need to be g creative and good coder but I need to be able to explain abstractions to others as well as understand what they are trying to get across. I read something recently that said that software developers were paid way too much. What the nonce who wrote this article did not realise is that people like me have been living software development for the past twenty + years, it's not a job it really becomes part of your life and the hours you spend outside of 'work' working need to be appreciated. I think a good software developer's skill set is much more than coding.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
They were probably just spouting more of the "I don't want to pay so it shouldn't cost that much" logic. If you think programming isn't worth much money, just write all your software yourself and see how you feel about it then. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
I thought you were being sarcastic. Instead, you set up a straw man, knock him down and crow about how smart you are. How much do you make off your books? You're not going to sell a million, so why bother? This is bullshit cynical thinking. Whoever wrote the app you bought is now $3 richer. If it's a good app, given the number of iPads out there, if they sell a thousand that's not chump change. It may make the difference between paying rent or not for this developer. Or paying tuition. If they develop ten such apps, they're now making a living and, more importantly, gaining valuable technical and business experience. So, they may not rich off this app, or any they write on their own, it could lead to a job writing business apps in a vertical market. No pipe dream; I know a few guys who have done this (I tried to hire one I'd worked with.) I remember the shareware days of the 80s and early 90s. A few people got rich, many more made enough to pay for their computer, if that, and even more than that learned how to program, which led to well paying jobs. A brother and sister of mine are both writers. They've been published but they were paid less than your app writer. BUT THEY WERE PUBLISHED which is a hell of a lot more than most people can say. In the 90s I started my own company making software and media content. My business partner and I were under no illusions we'd sell millions--we aimed at a measly 10,000. In the end we sold 2500, which paid for about a third our actual costs. Yet, we both would do it tomorrow in heartbeat. We had a blast and did something we loved. Plus, we did sell software, we did actually make a video that people bought and in the end, my company ended up the green--however miniscule that green was--and I shut it down without bankruptcy. That's a helluva lot more than a lot of people can say.
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More likely it just is what it is. I mean, how many ads do you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Today ,so far, I have had 11 advert clicks which has earned me £0.48 That might give you some idea of how many clicks you need. Also google only allow you to have 3 adverts per page, so you have to place them quite carefully. I reckon most of the clicks come from the download page which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :-\
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Today ,so far, I have had 11 advert clicks which has earned me £0.48 That might give you some idea of how many clicks you need. Also google only allow you to have 3 adverts per page, so you have to place them quite carefully. I reckon most of the clicks come from the download page which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :-\
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
GuyThiebaut wrote:
which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :->
Oh, you're one of those guys... :rolleyes: So you're talking around .04 per click. Yeah, have to be a whole lotta clicking goin' on to make any money like that.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Yeah, everyone's fixated on the "sell it a million times" thing. Guys, seriously, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do selling a million copies of a mobile app.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
While I take your point, at least trying to sel a million copies is a game of skill and not pure chance!
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Well, at least you're not expecting to sell a million copies like everyone else. That said, in all but rare cases, even 10k sales of a paid app is massively unrealistic. 99 cents times 100 sales, something you might achieve, is less than most developers make before lunch. And you're going to spend way more than half a day on it.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Real figures from a real game Here - makes interesting reading[^]
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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You bring up a good point. Advertising is the other leg of revenue in mobile. Anyone making any money from advertising on mobile apps? Would be interested in what the numbers are in terms of revenue versus downloads. From what I've read it's still miniscule income for all but the lucky few.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
While ad income tends to be relatively low, what brings in the bucks is In App Purchases - it is astonishing to me, but lots of olk out there will pay 99c for their character to wear a different hat.
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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Along those lines, if you sell 100 copies, which is probably a realistic figure, you're working for $1 an hour. I could be wrong, but I think you're worth more than that. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Isn't this similar with books, though? It takes a long time to write a novel, but you ain't going to either sell a million or sell it at $50 a copy - and as the author of a published book you aren't getting much more than 99c a copy anyway !
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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GuyThiebaut wrote:
which usually contains an add with a big green download button on it :->
Oh, you're one of those guys... :rolleyes: So you're talking around .04 per click. Yeah, have to be a whole lotta clicking goin' on to make any money like that.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Oh, you're one of those guys... :rolleyes:
The funny bit is that I am not as I have no control over the individual advert - the only control I have is that I can exclude certain categories(buy a bride, dodgy medicine and adult sites are on that list for my site). I think google use some algorithm to match the advert to the page, which happens to be a download page.
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
― Christopher Hitchens
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Real figures from a real game Here - makes interesting reading[^]
MVVM# - See how I did MVVM my way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
Looks like a good read, thanks!
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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Yeah, everyone's fixated on the "sell it a million times" thing. Guys, seriously, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than you do selling a million copies of a mobile app.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
There are other non-tangeable benefits, such as, the experience of doing something like this (could result in a job offer) and street-cred for making an app that people paid for (also, resume-icing).
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Quote:
I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar.
If that's where the market values it, then so be it. We can wring our hands all we want about devaluing our profession, but in the end, it's always the consumer who decides the price they will buy at, not the seller.
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Quote:
I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar.
If that's where the market values it, then so be it. We can wring our hands all we want about devaluing our profession, but in the end, it's always the consumer who decides the price they will buy at, not the seller.
Clearly, you've never worked in sales. :)
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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That'a a fair point. I think what bothers me is the devaluation of what I do for a living. Once upon a time, spending $100 on professional quality software was pretty cheap. I routinely spend way more than that for dev, audio and video tools. Try listing an app on the App Store for $100 and you'll get death threats. With mobile being all the rage these days, and rightly so for the benefits it brings, why am I expected to work for staggeringly ridiculous prices in mobile compared to desktop software? That would suggest that mobile apps are only worth a tiny fraction of their desktop brethren. And yet, everyone's talking about how the desktop PC is legacy and destined to die. I don't think there's a legitimate reason for this pricing in terms of cost / value. It's just a trend that got started (looking at you, Apple). And as a guy who gets paid to sling code, I dislike the notion that we should work for less than minimum wage.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I think what bothers me is the devaluation of what I do for a living
And what happens when you work 80+ hours a week at your salaried job? Do they pay you more?
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Once upon a time, spending $100 on professional quality software was pretty cheap.
At least for the tools that I use the price has gone up significantly. A new MSDN subscription used to be less than $1000 and upgrades less than that. VS major upgrades used to be just about $100. Visio at one time was free and was fairly inexpensive once they started charging.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
And yet, everyone's talking about how the desktop PC is legacy and destined to die.
People who can actually predict the future should do so by making money and retiring. All others are just shooting off their mouths.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
And as a guy who gets paid to sling code, I dislike the notion that we should work for less than minimum wage.
Do you have any hobbies? How many people do you think do things like build furniture, cars, jewelry, ride horses, plant gardens, make wine, etc make more than the minimum wage doing it? For that matter how many manage to actually make any net profit from it?
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
I think what bothers me is the devaluation of what I do for a living
And what happens when you work 80+ hours a week at your salaried job? Do they pay you more?
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Once upon a time, spending $100 on professional quality software was pretty cheap.
At least for the tools that I use the price has gone up significantly. A new MSDN subscription used to be less than $1000 and upgrades less than that. VS major upgrades used to be just about $100. Visio at one time was free and was fairly inexpensive once they started charging.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
And yet, everyone's talking about how the desktop PC is legacy and destined to die.
People who can actually predict the future should do so by making money and retiring. All others are just shooting off their mouths.
Christopher Duncan wrote:
And as a guy who gets paid to sling code, I dislike the notion that we should work for less than minimum wage.
Do you have any hobbies? How many people do you think do things like build furniture, cars, jewelry, ride horses, plant gardens, make wine, etc make more than the minimum wage doing it? For that matter how many manage to actually make any net profit from it?
Well, as far as the 80 hour thing goes, that's why I work by the hour, so yes, I do get paid more. And yeah, prices have gone up a lot but really just on the desktop side of things. Mobile app pricing seems to be caught in the iTunes / mp3 model. I just think all you guys who do mobile apps are talented and should be compensated better than that. This stuff is a lot of work, regardless of platform. Hobbies? Oh, lord. My entire life is a hobby. I write code (what, you thought that was work?), play in bands, write books, do speaking gigs, do audio & video production and on occasion I even try this sleeping thing I've heard so much about. Most of that stuff I either make money on or am headed in that direction but that's not to say that a hobby has to make a buck. I just tend to make a living doing the things I love. If someone likes writing apps just for the joy of doing it, I think that's great. I just hate to see opportunity diminish for those who want to write apps and pay the bills with them. I think there's room in this world for both, but only if the business model supports the latter.
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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After spending a few hundred bucks on an iPad Mini, I went through the process of setting everything up. Hadn't used Instapaper and wanted to give it a try so I set up an account on their website and then went to download the iPad app. At that point, I hesitated because of the cost. It was 4 dollars. Really. After a brief moment I realized how stupid that was and bought the app. It's nice getting stuff for free or on the cheap but this really bugs me. These days, software is supposed to be free and if you actually have to pay for it, gosh, it really shouldn't cost more than 99 cents or it's way overpriced. As a professional software developer, I can't imagine why someone would go to all the trouble of writing professional quality software and then selling it for a dollar. Or even 4. This is why I don't write mobile apps on the side. I mean, seriously, try getting a plumber out to your house for 4 dollars. [edit] Since this appears to be the common thinking... Guys - you're not going to sell a million copies. You'll be lucky to sell 100. Lots of studies on this and the fallacy of Gold Rush thinking. And so the question - who are these people who are willing to work so cheaply, and are they free this weekend to mow my lawn? :-D [/edit]
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
You're forgetting that most apps, especially the free ones, also earn revenue because they have advertising in them. I have no idea how much that can generate for someone publishing the app or how they calculate that stuff...but a price tag of .99 doesn't necessarily mean the app will bring in .99 (minus apple's cut) for each sale. Does anyone know how they calculate how much you get if you include advertising in an app?
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You're forgetting that most apps, especially the free ones, also earn revenue because they have advertising in them. I have no idea how much that can generate for someone publishing the app or how they calculate that stuff...but a price tag of .99 doesn't necessarily mean the app will bring in .99 (minus apple's cut) for each sale. Does anyone know how they calculate how much you get if you include advertising in an app?
One of the guys indicated around 4 cents per click. But of course, that's only if you get a click. How many ads to you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)
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One of the guys indicated around 4 cents per click. But of course, that's only if you get a click. How many ads to you click on?
Christopher Duncan Author of The Career Programmer Enjoy comedy? Watch Talking Head Games (SFW)