Another open source rant
-
Ain't that the truth. I used to work at a Naval ship yard and we used to joke that we were amazed that the ships came back up. Yeah submarines .... They always asked me if I wanted to tour one of the boats ... how cool it would be to go out for a cruise in one ... and I was like ... no I'm fine! Thanks! :omg:
The environment that nurtures creative programmers kills management and marketing types - and vice versa. - Orson Scott Card
One of my friends was a plane mechanic working on-board a Navy carrier... he said when they ran out of bolts of one size, they would go one size down, wrap them in something metallic like wire and jam them in. I'm guessing duct tape was the next viable option. ..sounds safe... :rolleyes:
-
No, just a binary for Windows would be great.
.-. |o,o| ,| \_\\=/\_ .-""-. ||/\_/\_\\\_\\ /\[\] \_ \_\\ |\_/|(\_)|\\\\ \_|\_o\_LII|\_ \\.\_./// / | ==== | \\ |\\\_/|"\` |\_| ==== |\_| |\_|\_| ||" || || |-|-| ||LI o || |\_|\_| ||'----'|| /\_/ \\\_\\ /\_\_| |\_\_\\Think Chris is just pointing out how it's a problem for them anyway... if they have to support a bunch of platforms, it's easier for them to make you compile it, although you may not like that option. I guess I can see how it's an issue all around, both from the devs perspective and from the user perspective.
-
This time, my sights are on HtmlAgilityPack[^]. Besides the fact that there is no documentation and the one example provided has an absurd quote-placement error, so obviously the code was never tested, there's this:
/// /// Selects a list of nodes matching the expression.
///
/// The XPath expression.
/// An containing a collection of nodes matching the query, or null if no node matched the XPath expression.
public HtmlNodeCollection SelectNodes(string xpath)What? You return a null if no matches are found??? Which of course would blow up their "example" if no "href" tags exist:
HtmlDocument doc = new HtmlDocument();
doc.Load("file.htm");
foreach(HtmlNode link in doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"])
{Why is it that the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad? On a positive note, someone did put together a HAPExplorer (albeit in WPF, why???) that at least provides some working examples, and lo-and-behold, it does compile (after I nuked the test project with an NUnit dependency), but on a bad note, the latest source download complained about a missing .cs file, so the test stuff doesn't build anyways. :sigh: Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogWho said open-source was supposed to be "professional" level quality ? Everyone including your mom could push something out as open source...
Nihil obstat
-
Um, The difference between a professional and an amateur is that a professional gets paid. Open Source = Free?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
The difference between a professional and an amateur is that a professional gets paid. Open Source = Free?
There is nothing free about Open Source. ;) And, as far as professionals getting paid, most of the "paid professionals" I've had to work with are anything but professional. And frankly, that extends to other fields than just IT. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blog -
Um, The difference between a professional and an amateur is that a professional gets paid. Open Source = Free?
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
difference between a professional and an amateur is that a professional gets paid
...to provide a crappy product just like their amateur counterparts... :laugh: ;P
-
Who said open-source was supposed to be "professional" level quality ? Everyone including your mom could push something out as open source...
Nihil obstat
Maximilien wrote:
Everyone including your mom could push something out as open source...
Depends on who's managing the product... I'm sure you couldn't just push changes onto the Linux kernel dev tree without someone approving it, and you certainly wouldn't be able get those changes into the main kernel code unless approved by the man himself (Linus of course).
-
My gripe with open source is how most of the time they love being in the habit of just giving the source and saying "Build it yourself.". No thanks, I likely don't use the same toolchain or compilers as you. Why can't they just release a binary? :mad:
.-. |o,o| ,| \_\\=/\_ .-""-. ||/\_/\_\\\_\\ /\[\] \_ \_\\ |\_/|(\_)|\\\\ \_|\_o\_LII|\_ \\.\_./// / | ==== | \\ |\\\_/|"\` |\_| ==== |\_| |\_|\_| ||" || || |-|-| ||LI o || |\_|\_| ||'----'|| /\_/ \\\_\\ /\_\_| |\_\_\\Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
My gripe with open source is how most of the time they love being in the habit of just giving the source and saying "Build it yourself.". No thanks, I likely don't use the same toolchain or compilers as you. Why can't they just release a binary?
Well, if you're looking at Unix-based stuff, it's because of the various platforms and processors, but most of the Windows-based stuff I've seen, binaries are provided. I'd much rather have the source though - first of all because the binaries tend to target older Visual Studio's especially if the project isn't being maintained, and secondly because I want to be able to fix simple things and/or just see what's going on under the hood. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blog -
Think Chris is just pointing out how it's a problem for them anyway... if they have to support a bunch of platforms, it's easier for them to make you compile it, although you may not like that option. I guess I can see how it's an issue all around, both from the devs perspective and from the user perspective.
I see what your both saying, but many of these "build it yourself" projects also have the package files in Linux distro repositories, so I'm sure they could make a Windows binary too.
.-. |o,o| ,| \_\\=/\_ .-""-. ||/\_/\_\\\_\\ /\[\] \_ \_\\ |\_/|(\_)|\\\\ \_|\_o\_LII|\_ \\.\_./// / | ==== | \\ |\\\_/|"\` |\_| ==== |\_| |\_|\_| ||" || || |-|-| ||LI o || |\_|\_| ||'----'|| /\_/ \\\_\\ /\_\_| |\_\_\\ -
I see what your both saying, but many of these "build it yourself" projects also have the package files in Linux distro repositories, so I'm sure they could make a Windows binary too.
.-. |o,o| ,| \_\\=/\_ .-""-. ||/\_/\_\\\_\\ /\[\] \_ \_\\ |\_/|(\_)|\\\\ \_|\_o\_LII|\_ \\.\_./// / | ==== | \\ |\\\_/|"\` |\_| ==== |\_| |\_|\_| ||" || || |-|-| ||LI o || |\_|\_| ||'----'|| /\_/ \\\_\\ /\_\_| |\_\_\\...and some do, those that have bigger dev teams do. For example LibreOffice provides binaries for just about everything (as well as source), but for example, some of the Linux drivers don't, they only provide source.... why, well the Linux kernel is constantly changing and different distros use different kernel versions, so they'd have to compile a WHOLE bunch of time with different compilers/kernel headers. So, I just see why some people don't want to do it... as a developer that has to support a bunch of different platforms, I understand the headache.
-
Maximilien wrote:
Everyone including your mom could push something out as open source...
Depends on who's managing the product... I'm sure you couldn't just push changes onto the Linux kernel dev tree without someone approving it, and you certainly wouldn't be able get those changes into the main kernel code unless approved by the man himself (Linus of course).
yeah, there are some exceptions. but nothing prevents me from creating a new super-duper HTLML gizmo on sourceforge and someone thinks it looks good and download it and rant about it on CodeProject. :-\
Nihil obstat
-
yeah, there are some exceptions. but nothing prevents me from creating a new super-duper HTLML gizmo on sourceforge and someone thinks it looks good and download it and rant about it on CodeProject. :-\
Nihil obstat
Maximilien wrote:
but nothing prevents me from creating a new super-duper HTLML gizmo on sourceforge and someone thinks it looks good and download it and rant about it on CodeProject.
...not that we're talking about anyone specifically here.... :laugh:
-
This time, my sights are on HtmlAgilityPack[^]. Besides the fact that there is no documentation and the one example provided has an absurd quote-placement error, so obviously the code was never tested, there's this:
/// /// Selects a list of nodes matching the expression.
///
/// The XPath expression.
/// An containing a collection of nodes matching the query, or null if no node matched the XPath expression.
public HtmlNodeCollection SelectNodes(string xpath)What? You return a null if no matches are found??? Which of course would blow up their "example" if no "href" tags exist:
HtmlDocument doc = new HtmlDocument();
doc.Load("file.htm");
foreach(HtmlNode link in doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"])
{Why is it that the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad? On a positive note, someone did put together a HAPExplorer (albeit in WPF, why???) that at least provides some working examples, and lo-and-behold, it does compile (after I nuked the test project with an NUnit dependency), but on a bad note, the latest source download complained about a missing .cs file, so the test stuff doesn't build anyways. :sigh: Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blogforeach(HtmlNode link in doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"])
Well, that's entirely consistent with reading an XmlNode. Of course, this is easily circumvented by
HtmlNodeList nodes = doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"]);
if (nodes != null && nodes.Count > 0)
foreach (HtmlNode link in nodes)I was brought up to respect my elders. I don't respect many people nowadays.
CodeStash - Online Snippet Management | My blog | MoXAML PowerToys | Mole 2010 - debugging made easier -
This time, my sights are on HtmlAgilityPack[^]. Besides the fact that there is no documentation and the one example provided has an absurd quote-placement error, so obviously the code was never tested, there's this:
/// /// Selects a list of nodes matching the expression.
///
/// The XPath expression.
/// An containing a collection of nodes matching the query, or null if no node matched the XPath expression.
public HtmlNodeCollection SelectNodes(string xpath)What? You return a null if no matches are found??? Which of course would blow up their "example" if no "href" tags exist:
HtmlDocument doc = new HtmlDocument();
doc.Load("file.htm");
foreach(HtmlNode link in doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"])
{Why is it that the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad? On a positive note, someone did put together a HAPExplorer (albeit in WPF, why???) that at least provides some working examples, and lo-and-behold, it does compile (after I nuked the test project with an NUnit dependency), but on a bad note, the latest source download complained about a missing .cs file, so the test stuff doesn't build anyways. :sigh: Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogAgree.. In this case the SelectNodes returns IEnumerable items , we are expecting it to return zero or more items but sure not NULL's.. Yes this could be a bad design, even I faced the same issue. We could even return NULL when you are not iterating, means when you are just finding an element in a xml document, you could return NULL if no match found. Thanks,
Ranjan.D
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad
After seeing how bad so many of the so called professionals are in our industry, I no longer trust professionals in other industries. Once you do that, it becomes easier to observe that there are more flawed products than there are good ones.
AspDotNetDev wrote:
After seeing how bad so many of the so called professionals are in our industry, I no longer trust professionals in other industries.
There's relatively many of them in IT, less in other professions. As a side-note; not every open-source writer is a professional programmer. But practice and critics can help turn into one.
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
-
This time, my sights are on HtmlAgilityPack[^]. Besides the fact that there is no documentation and the one example provided has an absurd quote-placement error, so obviously the code was never tested, there's this:
/// /// Selects a list of nodes matching the expression.
///
/// The XPath expression.
/// An containing a collection of nodes matching the query, or null if no node matched the XPath expression.
public HtmlNodeCollection SelectNodes(string xpath)What? You return a null if no matches are found??? Which of course would blow up their "example" if no "href" tags exist:
HtmlDocument doc = new HtmlDocument();
doc.Load("file.htm");
foreach(HtmlNode link in doc.DocumentElement.SelectNodes("//a[@href"])
{Why is it that the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad? On a positive note, someone did put together a HAPExplorer (albeit in WPF, why???) that at least provides some working examples, and lo-and-behold, it does compile (after I nuked the test project with an NUnit dependency), but on a bad note, the latest source download complained about a missing .cs file, so the test stuff doesn't build anyways. :sigh: Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogThe content of their "Documentation" page: "This project does not have documentation yet." Then why have a Documentation tab prominently placed at the top of every page? They don't have a page of beanie-baby photos, either, but I don't see a "Beanie-baby Photos" tab in their main menu. Do we really need people like these to tell us anything about web design or web development? You learn from masters, not fools.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
the quality of what "we" as supposed professionals produce is so obviously bad
After seeing how bad so many of the so called professionals are in our industry, I no longer trust professionals in other industries. Once you do that, it becomes easier to observe that there are more flawed products than there are good ones.
Web development is saturated with individuals whose skill-set is extremely poor and who lie about their ability with no shame. It really grinds my gears. I set about a guy recently in the LinkedIn forums who was asking if anyone had any guides so he could quickly learn JavaScript though on his profile he said he was an expert!
JimBob SquarePants ******************************************************************* "He took everything personally, including our royalties!" David St.Hubbins, Spinal Tap about Ian Faith, their ex-manager *******************************************************************
-
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
The difference between a professional and an amateur is that a professional gets paid. Open Source = Free?
There is nothing free about Open Source. ;) And, as far as professionals getting paid, most of the "paid professionals" I've had to work with are anything but professional. And frankly, that extends to other fields than just IT. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogI think what he was getting at is that 'professional' says nothing about quality of work, only that the person is paid to do it .
-
The content of their "Documentation" page: "This project does not have documentation yet." Then why have a Documentation tab prominently placed at the top of every page? They don't have a page of beanie-baby photos, either, but I don't see a "Beanie-baby Photos" tab in their main menu. Do we really need people like these to tell us anything about web design or web development? You learn from masters, not fools.
I wanna be a eunuchs developer! Pass me a bread knife!
Mark_Wallace wrote:
Then why have a Documentation tab prominently placed at the top of every page?
Well, I suspect that's just the boilerplate of every codeplex project. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My Blog -
Web development is saturated with individuals whose skill-set is extremely poor and who lie about their ability with no shame. It really grinds my gears. I set about a guy recently in the LinkedIn forums who was asking if anyone had any guides so he could quickly learn JavaScript though on his profile he said he was an expert!
JimBob SquarePants ******************************************************************* "He took everything personally, including our royalties!" David St.Hubbins, Spinal Tap about Ian Faith, their ex-manager *******************************************************************
I once heard these guys described as 'enthusiastic amateurs'. Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. So does that mean knowledge corrupts?
-
Lloyd Atkinson wrote:
My gripe with open source is how most of the time they love being in the habit of just giving the source and saying "Build it yourself.". No thanks, I likely don't use the same toolchain or compilers as you. Why can't they just release a binary?
Well, if you're looking at Unix-based stuff, it's because of the various platforms and processors, but most of the Windows-based stuff I've seen, binaries are provided. I'd much rather have the source though - first of all because the binaries tend to target older Visual Studio's especially if the project isn't being maintained, and secondly because I want to be able to fix simple things and/or just see what's going on under the hood. Marc
Testers Wanted!
Latest Article: User Authentication on Ruby on Rails - the definitive how to
My BlogMarc Clifton wrote:
I'd much rather have the source though
Me too, if only so that I can configure it and know I've got a good chance of getting it working when I upgrade my toolchain... Which I've managed with a long-standing C++ project that was originally developed with VC++ 98 and will soon get moved to Visual Studio 2012...(and it's moved from SourceSafe, through SVN to Mercurial in the over the years too...)
Java, Basic, who cares - it's all a bunch of tree-hugging hippy cr*p CodeProject MVP for 2010 - who'd'a thunk it!