QI Facts
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One does not need to have studied a subject in order to believe in it. And it is not a question of faith. Where evidence exists that supports a theory then the theory is sound. Science exists mainly not to support a good theory, but to disprove a bad one. To not accept evolution as the driving force of nature is to reject all the evidence of one's own eyes. You can observe evolution in action, so it obviously does exist. And there is currently NO other explanation for speciation. Ensatina is a great example of observable speciation. It is a ring species that shows how simple evolution really is. Melospiza melodia is another.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Dalek Dave wrote:
To not accept evolution as the driving force of nature is to reject all the evidence of one's own eyes.
Now, that was a little to much.
Dalek Dave wrote:
And there is currently NO other explanation for speciation.
Keyword being currently. Science is not static. Tomorow things may change, something new may be discovered. Evolution is a theory, and as all science theories, it may be replaced by a better one someday.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
To not accept evolution as the driving force of nature is to reject all the evidence of one's own eyes.
Now, that was a little to much.
Dalek Dave wrote:
And there is currently NO other explanation for speciation.
Keyword being currently. Science is not static. Tomorow things may change, something new may be discovered. Evolution is a theory, and as all science theories, it may be replaced by a better one someday.
That is why the word CURRENTLY is in there. I am doing a degree in evolutionary biology and know whereof I speak.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm sure someone questioned this "fact" a while back and the study was flawed, as most people have no idea how evolution works on a basic level and this counted as non-belief. It is surprising how poor the public understanding of evolution is, even among people who have take some interest (e.g people hold we descended from chimpanzees, whereas we descended from a common ancestor with the chimpanzees, albeit a chimp-like ancestor). I'm curious: do you actually have no interest in evolution or is this a debating position for DD?
PB 369,783 wrote:
I just find him very unlikeable, and I think the way he looks like a prettier version of his Mum is very disturbing.[^]
I have no general interest in the subject. But just bored at work redesigning a database schema to work around some specification changes so just having fun to see IF Dave would directly answer rather than skirt around it.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
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The Moon is shaped like an egg: it only looks round because the big end points towards Earth.
Shouldn't it be like egg is shaped like moon? I guess Moon existed before eggs did.
"Bastards encourage idiots to use Oracle Forms, Web Forms, Access and a number of other dinky web publishing tolls.", Mycroft Holmes[^]
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I have no general interest in the subject. But just bored at work redesigning a database schema to work around some specification changes so just having fun to see IF Dave would directly answer rather than skirt around it.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
I am running tax reports that involve a lot of sitting looking at a screen whilst doing nothing. It seems we both have time on our hands today!
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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I believe the Earth travels round the sun. The church said it didn't and many people believed the church. And that is the problem. Religion is a barrier to intelligent thought and scientific reasoning. Just because it was written in a book don't make it so. (qv the same is true of science, and the default position is to say I Don't Know, but the current theory that fits the facts and observed evidence is [INSERT CURRENT THEORY] For many years teachers told children to sit upright else they would damage their backs, but this has since been found out to be rubbish and that slouching is better. However the dogma persists and children are being damaged by ignorance.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Dalek Dave wrote:
I believe the Earth travels round the sun.
Only "believe"? Not "know"?
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I believe the Earth travels round the sun. The church said it didn't and many people believed the church. And that is the problem. Religion is a barrier to intelligent thought and scientific reasoning. Just because it was written in a book don't make it so. (qv the same is true of science, and the default position is to say I Don't Know, but the current theory that fits the facts and observed evidence is [INSERT CURRENT THEORY] For many years teachers told children to sit upright else they would damage their backs, but this has since been found out to be rubbish and that slouching is better. However the dogma persists and children are being damaged by ignorance.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
I'll just drop this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus[^] The guy that said that earth travels around the sun was from the church. I do agree with you that dogma and lack of intelligent thought/scientific reasoning is bad, but being religious does not implies that.
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I think you should change your handle to "Owler"
speramus in juniperus
Trust me on this, I don't export 'em!
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger. English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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Trust me on this, I don't export 'em!
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger. English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
Just the exhausted carcasses?
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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See Here for DT Article[^] Americans are one third of the mass of humanity? Possibly, I have seen some big people there. Half of British Adults don't believe in Evolution? Really? I didn't realise there were so many stupid people. Although a lot of them will be prepared to believe in a sky pixie or some other shite like that. Shark Bay in Australia is now called “Safety Beach”. So it is.[^] I shall not bother going there then. Had it been Shark Bay I would have gone but now the fluffy pussy brigade have taken over the Ocker Homeland I suppose it is just a matter of time before MM is wearing a tutu and sipping a pink gin.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Half of British Adults don't believe in Evolution? Really? I didn't realise there were so many stupid people.
I don't believe in Evolution. It's a theory (or a process, whichever) and as such it happens regardless of belief - that is pretty much fundamental to the Scientific Method. A belief is accepting a concept as the truth regardless of evidence or any form of support. Evolution does not require me to believe in it to work, any more than gravity does (or distortion in space-time if you want to get picky).
The only instant messaging I do involves my middle finger. English doesn't borrow from other languages. English follows other languages down dark alleys, knocks them over and goes through their pockets for loose grammar.
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I believe the Earth travels round the sun. The church said it didn't and many people believed the church. And that is the problem. Religion is a barrier to intelligent thought and scientific reasoning. Just because it was written in a book don't make it so. (qv the same is true of science, and the default position is to say I Don't Know, but the current theory that fits the facts and observed evidence is [INSERT CURRENT THEORY] For many years teachers told children to sit upright else they would damage their backs, but this has since been found out to be rubbish and that slouching is better. However the dogma persists and children are being damaged by ignorance.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
By your reasoning, here's a short list of stupid people, some who wrote books: Johannes Kepler, Louis Pasteur, Isaac Newton, the Wright brothers, Albert Einstein, Max Planck, Michael Faraday, Neils Bohr, Galileo Galilei, James Clerk Maxwell, Edwin Hubble, Dmitri Mendeleev, Erwin Schroedinger… I'm not telling you that your belief is correct or incorrect, but when you make sweeping statements, it does not help your argument.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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I'll just drop this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolaus_Copernicus[^] The guy that said that earth travels around the sun was from the church. I do agree with you that dogma and lack of intelligent thought/scientific reasoning is bad, but being religious does not implies that.
But from reading about Galileo much of his work was agreed from the Catholic church but they said that it couldn't conflict with people's religious beliefs. from what I read it implied that the church tried to suppress scientific advancements in its early years to safeguard its teachings. But I also believe that it didn't suppress science or intellectual advancement but very selective at the time due to its power what it released / agreed with.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
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That is why the word CURRENTLY is in there. I am doing a degree in evolutionary biology and know whereof I speak.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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But from reading about Galileo much of his work was agreed from the Catholic church but they said that it couldn't conflict with people's religious beliefs. from what I read it implied that the church tried to suppress scientific advancements in its early years to safeguard its teachings. But I also believe that it didn't suppress science or intellectual advancement but very selective at the time due to its power what it released / agreed with.
Every day, thousands of innocent plants are killed by vegetarians. Help end the violence EAT BACON
Yeah, church as a organization really tried to suppress scientific advancement. But religious people were capable of overcoming that suppression and laying the foundations of today's theories, that was my point, being religious does not automaticaly implies that the person has no capacity for scientific thinking.
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The answer to my next question may determine that. How do you explain the vast multiplicity of life, its relative nearness of one species to another, and the universality of certain biological and biochemical functions even amongst very disparate genera? If not evolution, then what? Space Pixies and Magic Dust?
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
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How do you explain the vast multiplicity of life, its relative nearness of one species to another, and the universality of certain biological and biochemical functions even amongst very disparate genera? If not evolution, then what? Space Pixies and Magic Dust?
It sounds like you are claiming that the fact that there is so much variety and yet so much in common means there can't be a creator? Is that what you are saying? If so, why? If there is a single creator why in the world would there not be similarities? If anything, your argument supports the notion of a creator.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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See Here for DT Article[^] Americans are one third of the mass of humanity? Possibly, I have seen some big people there. Half of British Adults don't believe in Evolution? Really? I didn't realise there were so many stupid people. Although a lot of them will be prepared to believe in a sky pixie or some other shite like that. Shark Bay in Australia is now called “Safety Beach”. So it is.[^] I shall not bother going there then. Had it been Shark Bay I would have gone but now the fluffy pussy brigade have taken over the Ocker Homeland I suppose it is just a matter of time before MM is wearing a tutu and sipping a pink gin.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
Dalek Dave wrote:
Americans are one third of the mass of humanity? Possibly, I have seen some big people there.
Not even close. For hand waving purposes I'm assuming an average person weight globally of 100lbs, 6bn total people, and 300m Americans. That'd require an average weight here of ~600lbs or ~300kg; that's into bed ridden and it's only a question of if they'll keel over with a heart attack tomorrow from their next dozen bacon cheese burgers or from terror when their feeder is 5 minutes late returning from McDeaths. That's clearly bullshit; and if America is leading the charge to morbid obesity most of the rest of the rich world is only a decade or so behind us in self indulgent destruction. Preemptive notice to obnoxious pedants: Significant figures.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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How do you explain the vast multiplicity of life, its relative nearness of one species to another, and the universality of certain biological and biochemical functions even amongst very disparate genera? If not evolution, then what? Space Pixies and Magic Dust?
It sounds like you are claiming that the fact that there is so much variety and yet so much in common means there can't be a creator? Is that what you are saying? If so, why? If there is a single creator why in the world would there not be similarities? If anything, your argument supports the notion of a creator.
There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3945863/Posting-rules-for-The-Lounge.aspx[^]
4. No politics (including enviro-politics[^]), no sex, no religion.
If you want to pursue that line of discussion, it belongs in the Soapbox, or possibly even the back room[^].
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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See Here for DT Article[^] Americans are one third of the mass of humanity? Possibly, I have seen some big people there. Half of British Adults don't believe in Evolution? Really? I didn't realise there were so many stupid people. Although a lot of them will be prepared to believe in a sky pixie or some other shite like that. Shark Bay in Australia is now called “Safety Beach”. So it is.[^] I shall not bother going there then. Had it been Shark Bay I would have gone but now the fluffy pussy brigade have taken over the Ocker Homeland I suppose it is just a matter of time before MM is wearing a tutu and sipping a pink gin.
--------------------------------- Obscurum per obscurius. Ad astra per alas porci. Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
It's not the fact that scientist call it a theory (Which is is, otherwise it would be called the law of evolution; on a side not, I love watching a adamant evolutionist state, "Well it's pretty much a law" but that will be addressed later. It's not the holes in the theory (personally I think evolution is a pretty good theory as for what we have going) My problem with evolution, is that fundamentalist bigots are usually on the wrong side. Sure I expect the christian right to by fairly opposed but I have yet to meet an evolutionist who is wiling to concede that it is just a theory and they go to name calling fast. No offense DD but calling people stupid because they don't agree with you is bigotry [but only because of my limited vocabulary], (Yes, yes, I know it is pretty much a law) So my fundamental believe is not in evolution but that evolution fits into a larger puzzle and that only time will tell which it is.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3945863/Posting-rules-for-The-Lounge.aspx[^]
4. No politics (including enviro-politics[^]), no sex, no religion.
If you want to pursue that line of discussion, it belongs in the Soapbox, or possibly even the back room[^].
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
