I give up
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Marc Clifton wrote:
it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site
You are absolutely correct. They want contractors so they can avoid the hassles of withholding taxes, paying SSI/Medicare, paying FUTA, providing Workman's Comp insurance, and paying for health benefits; these cost 55% to 75% of the employee salary. In theory, that's why contractors are paid so much more than employees, since they are presumed to provide these things for themselves. But any employer who attempts to dictate the hours or location of work is violating Federal labor and tax laws. If you have nothing better to with your time, you should accept one of these positions, then file criminal charges against the company. :-D
Will Rogers never met me.
Roger Wright wrote:
But any employer who attempts to dictate the hours or location of work is violating Federal labor and tax laws.
Can you point me to a DOL site that specifies this? Thanks, /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
Wow, that comes as news to me.
Read Roger's response above. He verifies that issue. Marc
Yes, awaiting his reply. It was my understanding that corporations were getting away with evading taxes by hiring contractors for long periods, thereby essentially substituting them for full-time employees. That was deemed illegal and several well-known large companies were taken to task about 5 years ago. But I had no idea that a short term contract couldn't stipulate on-site work. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Yes, awaiting his reply. It was my understanding that corporations were getting away with evading taxes by hiring contractors for long periods, thereby essentially substituting them for full-time employees. That was deemed illegal and several well-known large companies were taken to task about 5 years ago. But I had no idea that a short term contract couldn't stipulate on-site work. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi Bhavnani wrote:
thereby essentially substituting them for full-time employees.
Yeah, I got bitten by that in reverse. A company I had a multi-year contract with wanted me to become an employee, but I didn't want that because it would have been a significant pay reduction, and I also would not have been able to take advantage of the health care package because I'm in NY, not CA. It caused a bit of a stir, but the legal dept. sort of looked the other way. What eventually happened though was that I was let go of because (in my opinion, and my intuition / opinion is usually correct!) I was getting paid more than the senior manager - some new guy they brought in. Marc
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Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
the only way to get good leads from job boards is to proactively call yourself they day they are posted.
Great advice. I'll do that.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Get over the notion of working remote,
I agree, the biggest problem with that is that I'm rather connected to this and the neighboring communities - I'm involved with some things (not programming related) that require daytime meetings every week or two. Additionally, and I know I'm being pigheaded, but I'm really not willing to give up work/life-style that I have. I could get any number of lucrative jobs if I wanted to move to NJ or anywhere else, but I'm not, and neither is my partner - she also has a lot of ties to this community. I've done the commute to NYC. It's an hour drive to the metro-north, then $45 round trip ticket, then whatever it is for the subway, all told it's 3 hours one way. I used to stay with my Aunt 3 days a week in Stratford CT to cut the expenses. Sure, Amtrak is 12 minutes away, but that's $75 round trip. That said, I'm totally open to the Albany area.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Next, get an el-cheapo hotel for a few weeks to test the waters and learn the community. You might hate the job and want to leave first week.
Also excellent advice!
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Also, you can use the first two weeks to negotiate tele-commute 1 week on 4 weeks remote isn't that bad and is easier to negotiate after they have seen you work for a week. (Just don't bank on it)
Precisely.
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
Lastly, give up software development. I love it but I am going to move on. My next contract will be project management.
Agreed as well. I guess if push comes to shove, I can make major lifestyle changes, but right now that would be a major upheaval, and I'm not at that point yet. Sooo...my rant should definitely be qualified by the fact that I'm choosing a certain lifestyle and want to find work that fits within that lifestyle, not the other way around. :) Marc
Hi Marc, I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week. This seems to actually work out rather nicely, as I'm well in touch with rest of the team; while I'm also having time away from the team, which provides me with time to get down and do some serious work. We've both been around for some time, so I guess that we can agree that the opportunity to work for a company that actually understands what's in their best interest - e.g. aggressively killing attempts at workplace politics - doesn't come around all that often. What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest - which is a novel experience, and all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing. So, yes, I agree with you, word of mouth is the best thing - but if you want premium payment, I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for. The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc. Pretty damned good across the .Net and Java stacks. Development, Implementation Project Management and Product Management. Recent examples include would I go to Brum* for £40k as a dev? FOAD. I know we're old fecks, but that means we know our shyte and not that we are worthless. Rule of thumb - born after I started work === not worth speaking to. *Birmingham, Alabama's is a lot nicer and more tolerant. Imagine the worst of Soviet deprivation, then take away the style and taste.
speramus in juniperus
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Hi Marc, I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week. This seems to actually work out rather nicely, as I'm well in touch with rest of the team; while I'm also having time away from the team, which provides me with time to get down and do some serious work. We've both been around for some time, so I guess that we can agree that the opportunity to work for a company that actually understands what's in their best interest - e.g. aggressively killing attempts at workplace politics - doesn't come around all that often. What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest - which is a novel experience, and all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing. So, yes, I agree with you, word of mouth is the best thing - but if you want premium payment, I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for. The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm totally thrilled to do some work on-site. I probably didn't convey that very well, haha. The issue is, even suggesting doing, say, 1 day a week remote is a show stopper.
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for.
What's funny is I had a recruiter tell me that folks doing Ruby on Rails expect to work remotely and therefore employers are forced to accept that. Not really my experience though - lots of the RoR jobs demand on-site.
Espen Harlinn wrote:
The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Heck, I would think my articles on RoR that I've posted here would be sufficient, not to mention three websites I've put together for myself and three others I've done for my clients plus several github projects. The recruiter this morning asked me to put together what I've done in RoR and after I did so, I thought, geez, I actually have quite a portfolio for being in this environment for only 13 months. Marc
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Espen Harlinn wrote:
I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm totally thrilled to do some work on-site. I probably didn't convey that very well, haha. The issue is, even suggesting doing, say, 1 day a week remote is a show stopper.
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for.
What's funny is I had a recruiter tell me that folks doing Ruby on Rails expect to work remotely and therefore employers are forced to accept that. Not really my experience though - lots of the RoR jobs demand on-site.
Espen Harlinn wrote:
The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Heck, I would think my articles on RoR that I've posted here would be sufficient, not to mention three websites I've put together for myself and three others I've done for my clients plus several github projects. The recruiter this morning asked me to put together what I've done in RoR and after I did so, I thought, geez, I actually have quite a portfolio for being in this environment for only 13 months. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
I actually have quite a portfolio for being in this environment for only 13 months.
I think that is a part of the problem - while I'm certain that you have worked as diligently as you use to, you're not distinguishing yourself, at least not in a way that gets noticed by those who are generally willing to pay more for you services, there are just to many generation Y2K that is fighting for the attention on the Ruby scene. Your experience goes way back, you're not a stranger to counting bits, bytes, and cpu cycles - and this still counts, but not for every company. You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Clarification - I'm talking about management types on the whole, but it is funny when a grad tries to tell me how trading software should work.
speramus in juniperus
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Been there, done that ... When I was last looking I had a chat with a friend who is a Management Consultant (no not that kind, one who actually gets positive results). She told me to research a few recruitment agencies and interview them before I let them have my details. However I only found one who I thought was really up to it, and they were moving out of IT; they told me. off the record, that there were too many time wasters in it, on both sides.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo"
Same thing happened to me. Well, the positions were in the US, but all over the place and included JavaScript development, phone support, IT support and most recently a position for doing QA on car computer firmware (I had none of the required skills listed in my resume). I actually still receive these mails even three months after taking down my resume. Who knows where that thing has been copied to. :^)
Marc Clifton wrote:
2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand
I got these too and some of them wanted me to send them all kinds of personal information. I noticed that these recruiters would all call me up before sending an email - I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I was contacted by good and honest recruiters, but it takes me some time figure out which category they fall into. The recruiter who got me my current job a few months ago was one of those and from the beginning had me matched up with two positions that were a good fit for me. Soren Madsen
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I actually have quite a portfolio for being in this environment for only 13 months.
I think that is a part of the problem - while I'm certain that you have worked as diligently as you use to, you're not distinguishing yourself, at least not in a way that gets noticed by those who are generally willing to pay more for you services, there are just to many generation Y2K that is fighting for the attention on the Ruby scene. Your experience goes way back, you're not a stranger to counting bits, bytes, and cpu cycles - and this still counts, but not for every company. You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I think that is a part of the problem
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience, and one even offered an apprenticeship if you were coming from a PHP background!
Espen Harlinn wrote:
You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
It actually doesn't seem to be that crowded - not more so than anything else. :) But like I said, these headhunters were looking just at my most recent work - I haven't gotten a single call regarding .NET. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo"
Same thing happened to me. Well, the positions were in the US, but all over the place and included JavaScript development, phone support, IT support and most recently a position for doing QA on car computer firmware (I had none of the required skills listed in my resume). I actually still receive these mails even three months after taking down my resume. Who knows where that thing has been copied to. :^)
Marc Clifton wrote:
2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand
I got these too and some of them wanted me to send them all kinds of personal information. I noticed that these recruiters would all call me up before sending an email - I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I was contacted by good and honest recruiters, but it takes me some time figure out which category they fall into. The recruiter who got me my current job a few months ago was one of those and from the beginning had me matched up with two positions that were a good fit for me. Soren Madsen
SoMad wrote:
Who knows where that thing has been copied to.
I only posted on Monster, but several of the recruiters saw my resume on Dice. Don't know if they share information or just are morons. I suspect the latter. Marc
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SoMad wrote:
Who knows where that thing has been copied to.
I only posted on Monster, but several of the recruiters saw my resume on Dice. Don't know if they share information or just are morons. I suspect the latter. Marc
I only posted on Dice, so I guess they work the same. My email address is not in my resume, so I think they must be sharing the information. Either that or they are constantly mining those sites and store resumes along with contact information for a rainy day. Soren Madsen
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Roger Wright wrote:
But any employer who attempts to dictate the hours or location of work is violating Federal labor and tax laws.
Can you point me to a DOL site that specifies this? Thanks, /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi, I think this is mostly in the Revenue Code, and case law over the years. Specifically, though, the IRS dictates who is an Independent Contractor, and the Labor code (or other labor specific laws) require things like FUTA and workman's comp. I don't have the particular references handy, but any decent HR representative ought to have that info handy.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
90K was barely acceptable
Wait a second... I initially read this as $90/hr. Are you actually considering a full-time job that pays $90K per year? I understand you have to lower your price if you want to work from home, but based on your contributions here on CP (I haven't gone full cyber-stalking on you :) ), I had mentally placed you in a completely different salary range. Something closer to 190K. Especially being on the East coast. Soren Madsen
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Espen Harlinn wrote:
I think that is a part of the problem
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience, and one even offered an apprenticeship if you were coming from a PHP background!
Espen Harlinn wrote:
You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
It actually doesn't seem to be that crowded - not more so than anything else. :) But like I said, these headhunters were looking just at my most recent work - I haven't gotten a single call regarding .NET. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience
And how well are they paying? For the right customer - your experience, and productivity, should be worth well above the average. At least that's my view of your skills, and from what I've seen, you know how to develop decent software, and you know how to document your work - which is often at least as valuable, especially when you're doing contract work. I really wish you the best of luck, and I really think you deserve it :thumbsup:
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Hi Marc, I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week. This seems to actually work out rather nicely, as I'm well in touch with rest of the team; while I'm also having time away from the team, which provides me with time to get down and do some serious work. We've both been around for some time, so I guess that we can agree that the opportunity to work for a company that actually understands what's in their best interest - e.g. aggressively killing attempts at workplace politics - doesn't come around all that often. What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest - which is a novel experience, and all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing. So, yes, I agree with you, word of mouth is the best thing - but if you want premium payment, I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for. The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest
Espen Harlinn wrote:
all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing.
The latter explains the former. If they're good, they don't need to lie.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers. Buckminster Fuller
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Espen Harlinn wrote:
What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest
Espen Harlinn wrote:
all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing.
The latter explains the former. If they're good, they don't need to lie.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers. Buckminster Fuller
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
If they're good, they don't need to lie.
That's probably true - but it's still refreshing :-)
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
I've never really understood programmer frustration with recruiters. I would never expect a stripper to teach Sunday school or a :baaaa!: to design a Corvette, so I don't expect recruiters to be anything other than what they are - phone sales reps. Having extensive experience teaching salespeople, I understand their thinking. Run the numbers, and x percent will turn into money. I approach my interactions with them in the same manner. The more recruiters, clueless or not, who have me on their list of people to ping, the greater my chances of bumping into what I want. I get emails all the time from people asking for things that have never appeared on my resume. I don't reply and ask them if they've even read my resume. There's no benefit in that line of thinking. Instead, each time, I send them a nice two sentance email explaining that I'm currently unavailable and thanking them for thinking of me. When I am looking for a gig, you'd be surprised how many people remember me and try all the harder because I was nice to them. Reputation is a volume business, but it does pay off over time. It's all a numbers game, on your side of the fence and theirs. The more contacts made, the greater the statistical probability of success. Getting frustrated with the quality of the numbers doesn't get you any closer to your destination. It just makes the ride more unpleasant. I've never had much luck with monster, career builder or other general purpose sites. Dice has been useful, not so much as a source of jobs, but because I get more recruiters for my list. Rememeber, any time you're looking for gigs on a website, it's a race to the bottom. I'm surprised someone didn't ask you to work for 10k a year. Build yourself a good network of recruiters instead. You have to constantly stay on top of them to get results, but it's a better investment of your time than websites. By the way, I know better than to poke you with a stick when you're cranky. Maybe I'll just back slowly to the exit now... :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of Unite the Tribes: Leadership Skills for Technology Managers Have Fun, Get Paid: How to Make a Living with Your Creativity The Career Programmer
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25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc. Pretty damned good across the .Net and Java stacks. Development, Implementation Project Management and Product Management. Recent examples include would I go to Brum* for £40k as a dev? FOAD. I know we're old fecks, but that means we know our shyte and not that we are worthless. Rule of thumb - born after I started work === not worth speaking to. *Birmingham, Alabama's is a lot nicer and more tolerant. Imagine the worst of Soviet deprivation, then take away the style and taste.
speramus in juniperus
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc.
£40K??? :((
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra