I give up
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Been there, done that ... When I was last looking I had a chat with a friend who is a Management Consultant (no not that kind, one who actually gets positive results). She told me to research a few recruitment agencies and interview them before I let them have my details. However I only found one who I thought was really up to it, and they were moving out of IT; they told me. off the record, that there were too many time wasters in it, on both sides.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo"
Same thing happened to me. Well, the positions were in the US, but all over the place and included JavaScript development, phone support, IT support and most recently a position for doing QA on car computer firmware (I had none of the required skills listed in my resume). I actually still receive these mails even three months after taking down my resume. Who knows where that thing has been copied to. :^)
Marc Clifton wrote:
2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand
I got these too and some of them wanted me to send them all kinds of personal information. I noticed that these recruiters would all call me up before sending an email - I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I was contacted by good and honest recruiters, but it takes me some time figure out which category they fall into. The recruiter who got me my current job a few months ago was one of those and from the beginning had me matched up with two positions that were a good fit for me. Soren Madsen
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I actually have quite a portfolio for being in this environment for only 13 months.
I think that is a part of the problem - while I'm certain that you have worked as diligently as you use to, you're not distinguishing yourself, at least not in a way that gets noticed by those who are generally willing to pay more for you services, there are just to many generation Y2K that is fighting for the attention on the Ruby scene. Your experience goes way back, you're not a stranger to counting bits, bytes, and cpu cycles - and this still counts, but not for every company. You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I think that is a part of the problem
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience, and one even offered an apprenticeship if you were coming from a PHP background!
Espen Harlinn wrote:
You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
It actually doesn't seem to be that crowded - not more so than anything else. :) But like I said, these headhunters were looking just at my most recent work - I haven't gotten a single call regarding .NET. Marc
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Marc Clifton wrote:
1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo"
Same thing happened to me. Well, the positions were in the US, but all over the place and included JavaScript development, phone support, IT support and most recently a position for doing QA on car computer firmware (I had none of the required skills listed in my resume). I actually still receive these mails even three months after taking down my resume. Who knows where that thing has been copied to. :^)
Marc Clifton wrote:
2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand
I got these too and some of them wanted me to send them all kinds of personal information. I noticed that these recruiters would all call me up before sending an email - I hate that. Don't get me wrong, I was contacted by good and honest recruiters, but it takes me some time figure out which category they fall into. The recruiter who got me my current job a few months ago was one of those and from the beginning had me matched up with two positions that were a good fit for me. Soren Madsen
SoMad wrote:
Who knows where that thing has been copied to.
I only posted on Monster, but several of the recruiters saw my resume on Dice. Don't know if they share information or just are morons. I suspect the latter. Marc
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SoMad wrote:
Who knows where that thing has been copied to.
I only posted on Monster, but several of the recruiters saw my resume on Dice. Don't know if they share information or just are morons. I suspect the latter. Marc
I only posted on Dice, so I guess they work the same. My email address is not in my resume, so I think they must be sharing the information. Either that or they are constantly mining those sites and store resumes along with contact information for a rainy day. Soren Madsen
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Roger Wright wrote:
But any employer who attempts to dictate the hours or location of work is violating Federal labor and tax laws.
Can you point me to a DOL site that specifies this? Thanks, /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
Ravi, I think this is mostly in the Revenue Code, and case law over the years. Specifically, though, the IRS dictates who is an Independent Contractor, and the Labor code (or other labor specific laws) require things like FUTA and workman's comp. I don't have the particular references handy, but any decent HR representative ought to have that info handy.
Will Rogers never met me.
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I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
90K was barely acceptable
Wait a second... I initially read this as $90/hr. Are you actually considering a full-time job that pays $90K per year? I understand you have to lower your price if you want to work from home, but based on your contributions here on CP (I haven't gone full cyber-stalking on you :) ), I had mentally placed you in a completely different salary range. Something closer to 190K. Especially being on the East coast. Soren Madsen
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Espen Harlinn wrote:
I think that is a part of the problem
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience, and one even offered an apprenticeship if you were coming from a PHP background!
Espen Harlinn wrote:
You have valuable experience, make it count - competing on an overcrowded scene just isn't worth it.
It actually doesn't seem to be that crowded - not more so than anything else. :) But like I said, these headhunters were looking just at my most recent work - I haven't gotten a single call regarding .NET. Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience
And how well are they paying? For the right customer - your experience, and productivity, should be worth well above the average. At least that's my view of your skills, and from what I've seen, you know how to develop decent software, and you know how to document your work - which is often at least as valuable, especially when you're doing contract work. I really wish you the best of luck, and I really think you deserve it :thumbsup:
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Hi Marc, I'm currently working for a company in Trondheim, and I work three days on-site every other week. This seems to actually work out rather nicely, as I'm well in touch with rest of the team; while I'm also having time away from the team, which provides me with time to get down and do some serious work. We've both been around for some time, so I guess that we can agree that the opportunity to work for a company that actually understands what's in their best interest - e.g. aggressively killing attempts at workplace politics - doesn't come around all that often. What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest - which is a novel experience, and all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing. So, yes, I agree with you, word of mouth is the best thing - but if you want premium payment, I'm fairly certain that marketing yourself as a C++ developer would generate more of the interest you are looking for. The stuff I would be showcasing would be related to optimization, parallelization, and multicore development - and it wouldn't hurt if you could demonstrate some mathematical abilities as well. The thing is, you don't really have to be all that advanced - basic skills will put you well ahead of the general ruby crowd.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest
Espen Harlinn wrote:
all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing.
The latter explains the former. If they're good, they don't need to lie.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers. Buckminster Fuller
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Espen Harlinn wrote:
What really impresses me is that everybody seems to be honest
Espen Harlinn wrote:
all of the team I'm working with is actually d*mn good at what they're doing.
The latter explains the former. If they're good, they don't need to lie.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers. Buckminster Fuller
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
If they're good, they don't need to lie.
That's probably true - but it's still refreshing :-)
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
-
I put my resume on Monster a couple weeks ago to see if I could drum up some additional consulting work. My experiences: 1. Even when you check "remote work only" and "NO relocation", the phone rings off the hook with "can you relocate to Timbucktoo" 2. 98% of the calls are from job shops operated by [people from a different country, take a wild guess], God only knows where they're really calling from, with names like "Lucky", and mostly impossible to understand 3. OK, I've been doing Ruby on Rails for a year and have obviously extensive .NET experience as well. What does everyone call about? Ruby on Rails. It's like they can't see anything else. 4. One company just now replied to the job shop with: Interesting candidate, but I don't see any academic achievements or any reason why his positions are short termed (see below, I let them know that these were contract roles). Also, I don't think 90K is reasonable, given these code samples. Would he be interested in discussing further at around 75k. What a joke. Academic achievements, my arse. Last time I took a college course (Fortran using punch-cards!!!) was 33 years ago. 90K was barely acceptable, and they offer 75k? And...Interesting candidate ??? F.U., given that I'd given them links to my Ruby on Rails projects, websites, and articles here, I've had people jump all over my skills (of course, they're in places you couldn't pay me to move to.) I'm so sick of this business, the bullshit interviews, the phone calls, etc. As I've said here and elsewhere over and over again, word of mouth is the best, and it's certainly how I've gotten the really fun and interesting (and great paying) jobs. The thing that pisses me off the most though is that these companies all want "on-site" contractors/employees. First off, as a contractor, it's my understanding that it is illegal to require on-site work unless it can be demonstrated that the work can only be done on-site. Second off, most of these companies create products that have something to do with remote access (for example, have you seen the ADP commercials for how you can check all your security cameras from your tablet?) yet they all demand on-site work. WTF is with that? We live in the age of telecommunications, and yet, for example, when I did a stint with Citigroup in NYC, almost every person had a 2 hour + commute, one way. I'm disgusted with this dehumanizing industry. Screw it all. Grrr. :mad: Marc
I've never really understood programmer frustration with recruiters. I would never expect a stripper to teach Sunday school or a :baaaa!: to design a Corvette, so I don't expect recruiters to be anything other than what they are - phone sales reps. Having extensive experience teaching salespeople, I understand their thinking. Run the numbers, and x percent will turn into money. I approach my interactions with them in the same manner. The more recruiters, clueless or not, who have me on their list of people to ping, the greater my chances of bumping into what I want. I get emails all the time from people asking for things that have never appeared on my resume. I don't reply and ask them if they've even read my resume. There's no benefit in that line of thinking. Instead, each time, I send them a nice two sentance email explaining that I'm currently unavailable and thanking them for thinking of me. When I am looking for a gig, you'd be surprised how many people remember me and try all the harder because I was nice to them. Reputation is a volume business, but it does pay off over time. It's all a numbers game, on your side of the fence and theirs. The more contacts made, the greater the statistical probability of success. Getting frustrated with the quality of the numbers doesn't get you any closer to your destination. It just makes the ride more unpleasant. I've never had much luck with monster, career builder or other general purpose sites. Dice has been useful, not so much as a source of jobs, but because I get more recruiters for my list. Rememeber, any time you're looking for gigs on a website, it's a race to the bottom. I'm surprised someone didn't ask you to work for 10k a year. Build yourself a good network of recruiters instead. You have to constantly stay on top of them to get results, but it's a better investment of your time than websites. By the way, I know better than to poke you with a stick when you're cranky. Maybe I'll just back slowly to the exit now... :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of Unite the Tribes: Leadership Skills for Technology Managers Have Fun, Get Paid: How to Make a Living with Your Creativity The Career Programmer
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25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc. Pretty damned good across the .Net and Java stacks. Development, Implementation Project Management and Product Management. Recent examples include would I go to Brum* for £40k as a dev? FOAD. I know we're old fecks, but that means we know our shyte and not that we are worthless. Rule of thumb - born after I started work === not worth speaking to. *Birmingham, Alabama's is a lot nicer and more tolerant. Imagine the worst of Soviet deprivation, then take away the style and taste.
speramus in juniperus
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc.
£40K??? :((
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Marc Clifton wrote:
90K was barely acceptable
Wait a second... I initially read this as $90/hr. Are you actually considering a full-time job that pays $90K per year? I understand you have to lower your price if you want to work from home, but based on your contributions here on CP (I haven't gone full cyber-stalking on you :) ), I had mentally placed you in a completely different salary range. Something closer to 190K. Especially being on the East coast. Soren Madsen
SoMad wrote:
Are you actually considering a full-time job that pays $90K per year?
No, not seriously, but given the ups and downs of the consulting business, at the moment it would actually be an improvement to my financial situation. Getting those $90 per hour jobs is easy enough to do if I want to sell my soul to the devil, namely the financial companies on Wall Street. Which I don't. Did that for 5 months a few years ago, and I would rather be banging out bad rhythms on cooking pots on a sidewalk with a tin box to collect quarters.
SoMad wrote:
I had mentally placed you in a completely different salary range.
It varies all over the map. I had a lovely 3 years doing some work for a satellite manufacturer out in CA that was paying that, but then they got bought out, killed all inhouse development, and opted to spend a million or so on some third party commercial app that doesn't do half of what the engineers actually need. Managers X| Marc
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Clarification - I'm talking about management types on the whole, but it is funny when a grad tries to tell me how trading software should work.
speramus in juniperus
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
it is funny when a grad any developer tries to tell me how trading software should work.
Not many knows how to do this, even after many years of practice ... and even if you did really good quantitative work last year, you're seriously outdated today.
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
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Nagy Vilmos wrote:
FOAD.
Had to look that one up. I'll be sure to use it in the future. :)
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
I know we're old fecks, but that means we know our shyte and not that we are worthless.
Exactly. Marc
Talk for yourself, I'm just old.
Politicians are always realistically manoeuvering for the next election. They are obsolete as fundamental problem-solvers. Buckminster Fuller
-
I've never really understood programmer frustration with recruiters. I would never expect a stripper to teach Sunday school or a :baaaa!: to design a Corvette, so I don't expect recruiters to be anything other than what they are - phone sales reps. Having extensive experience teaching salespeople, I understand their thinking. Run the numbers, and x percent will turn into money. I approach my interactions with them in the same manner. The more recruiters, clueless or not, who have me on their list of people to ping, the greater my chances of bumping into what I want. I get emails all the time from people asking for things that have never appeared on my resume. I don't reply and ask them if they've even read my resume. There's no benefit in that line of thinking. Instead, each time, I send them a nice two sentance email explaining that I'm currently unavailable and thanking them for thinking of me. When I am looking for a gig, you'd be surprised how many people remember me and try all the harder because I was nice to them. Reputation is a volume business, but it does pay off over time. It's all a numbers game, on your side of the fence and theirs. The more contacts made, the greater the statistical probability of success. Getting frustrated with the quality of the numbers doesn't get you any closer to your destination. It just makes the ride more unpleasant. I've never had much luck with monster, career builder or other general purpose sites. Dice has been useful, not so much as a source of jobs, but because I get more recruiters for my list. Rememeber, any time you're looking for gigs on a website, it's a race to the bottom. I'm surprised someone didn't ask you to work for 10k a year. Build yourself a good network of recruiters instead. You have to constantly stay on top of them to get results, but it's a better investment of your time than websites. By the way, I know better than to poke you with a stick when you're cranky. Maybe I'll just back slowly to the exit now... :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of Unite the Tribes: Leadership Skills for Technology Managers Have Fun, Get Paid: How to Make a Living with Your Creativity The Career Programmer
-
Marc Clifton wrote:
Actually, that's what I found surprising - most of the jobs required only 1-2 years of experience
And how well are they paying? For the right customer - your experience, and productivity, should be worth well above the average. At least that's my view of your skills, and from what I've seen, you know how to develop decent software, and you know how to document your work - which is often at least as valuable, especially when you're doing contract work. I really wish you the best of luck, and I really think you deserve it :thumbsup:
Espen Harlinn Principal Architect, Software - Goodtech Projects & Services AS Projects promoting programming in "natural language" are intrinsically doomed to fail. Edsger W.Dijkstra
Espen Harlinn wrote:
And how well are they paying?
Most of the contract positions are paying $75/hr. Obviously the headhunter takes a cut (when I worked for a consulting agency in NYC, they were taking an additional $40/hr. Money in the bank.) Must be making a lot of Indians some money. :~
Espen Harlinn wrote:
I really wish you the best of luck, and I really think you deserve it
Thanks! I'll keep folks posted. Right now, I'm wondering why I shouldn't get in on the other end of the business. Clearly there's a need for a professional job placement website, and I bet employers have as many complaints about places like Monster from their angle as well. Currently, I'm poking around The Ladders to see if it's more professional. Marc
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25 years in the IT industry, all in Finance - Pensions, Banking [Retail and Corporate], Asset Management, Trading, Market Data, etc, etc, etc. Pretty damned good across the .Net and Java stacks. Development, Implementation Project Management and Product Management. Recent examples include would I go to Brum* for £40k as a dev? FOAD. I know we're old fecks, but that means we know our shyte and not that we are worthless. Rule of thumb - born after I started work === not worth speaking to. *Birmingham, Alabama's is a lot nicer and more tolerant. Imagine the worst of Soviet deprivation, then take away the style and taste.
speramus in juniperus
Nagy Vilmos wrote:
*Birmingham, Alabama's is a lot nicer and more tolerant. Imagine the worst of Soviet deprivation, then take away the style and taste.
Oi! Oiu hayle from Brumidgum, and it's roit grate, k? I amn't goan tayke that from sum suthenner!
MVVM # - I did it My Way ___________________________________________ Man, you're a god. - walterhevedeich 26/05/2011 .\\axxx (That's an 'M')
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SoMad wrote:
Are you actually considering a full-time job that pays $90K per year?
No, not seriously, but given the ups and downs of the consulting business, at the moment it would actually be an improvement to my financial situation. Getting those $90 per hour jobs is easy enough to do if I want to sell my soul to the devil, namely the financial companies on Wall Street. Which I don't. Did that for 5 months a few years ago, and I would rather be banging out bad rhythms on cooking pots on a sidewalk with a tin box to collect quarters.
SoMad wrote:
I had mentally placed you in a completely different salary range.
It varies all over the map. I had a lovely 3 years doing some work for a satellite manufacturer out in CA that was paying that, but then they got bought out, killed all inhouse development, and opted to spend a million or so on some third party commercial app that doesn't do half of what the engineers actually need. Managers X| Marc
Marc Clifton wrote:
I would rather be banging out bad rhythms on cooking pots on a sidewalk with a tin box to collect quarters.
Go for it!! Do what truly makes you happy!! :-D
Quad skating his way through the world since the early 80's... Booger Mobile - My bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - check out the blog here!! | If you feel generous - make a donation to Camp Quality!!
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I've never really understood programmer frustration with recruiters. I would never expect a stripper to teach Sunday school or a :baaaa!: to design a Corvette, so I don't expect recruiters to be anything other than what they are - phone sales reps. Having extensive experience teaching salespeople, I understand their thinking. Run the numbers, and x percent will turn into money. I approach my interactions with them in the same manner. The more recruiters, clueless or not, who have me on their list of people to ping, the greater my chances of bumping into what I want. I get emails all the time from people asking for things that have never appeared on my resume. I don't reply and ask them if they've even read my resume. There's no benefit in that line of thinking. Instead, each time, I send them a nice two sentance email explaining that I'm currently unavailable and thanking them for thinking of me. When I am looking for a gig, you'd be surprised how many people remember me and try all the harder because I was nice to them. Reputation is a volume business, but it does pay off over time. It's all a numbers game, on your side of the fence and theirs. The more contacts made, the greater the statistical probability of success. Getting frustrated with the quality of the numbers doesn't get you any closer to your destination. It just makes the ride more unpleasant. I've never had much luck with monster, career builder or other general purpose sites. Dice has been useful, not so much as a source of jobs, but because I get more recruiters for my list. Rememeber, any time you're looking for gigs on a website, it's a race to the bottom. I'm surprised someone didn't ask you to work for 10k a year. Build yourself a good network of recruiters instead. You have to constantly stay on top of them to get results, but it's a better investment of your time than websites. By the way, I know better than to poke you with a stick when you're cranky. Maybe I'll just back slowly to the exit now... :-D
Christopher Duncan Author of Unite the Tribes: Leadership Skills for Technology Managers Have Fun, Get Paid: How to Make a Living with Your Creativity The Career Programmer
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'll just back slowly to the exit now... :-D
Wise choice, Christopher, and good advice, as always. As you say, recruiters can be made into allies if you handle them properly. It's in their best interest to land you a better job - actually, they don't give a damn if it's better, so long as you think it is - and the more of them you have working for you, the better the results are likely to be. Although they get paid by the hiring company, generally, it's perfectly okay and very useful to treat them as your own personal representatives. None of them work for just one client, so they're really kind of a supermarket of job opportunities. It pays to learn how to effectively cultivate and manage them. :-D
Will Rogers never met me.