Visual Studio with MSDN Premium
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Has any looked at the MSDN pricing lately? I do some MS Office (excel) integration for my customers so it requires that I get their version of MS Office (all the versions; 97 to 2013) to program against. To have access to Office I need to upgrade from the MSDN Pro to MSDN Premium... which costs $5000 more! Can anyone explain to me how they can justify charging developers $5000 to integrate with their products? I'm not writing the president's speeches using these installs. I'm writing software so my customers will continue to use MS products and purchase licenses. :(( I don't understand. What am I missing... besides the money to do it? :((
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Nope, you didn't miss anything, it's the money.
It was broke, so I fixed it.
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Has any looked at the MSDN pricing lately? I do some MS Office (excel) integration for my customers so it requires that I get their version of MS Office (all the versions; 97 to 2013) to program against. To have access to Office I need to upgrade from the MSDN Pro to MSDN Premium... which costs $5000 more! Can anyone explain to me how they can justify charging developers $5000 to integrate with their products? I'm not writing the president's speeches using these installs. I'm writing software so my customers will continue to use MS products and purchase licenses. :(( I don't understand. What am I missing... besides the money to do it? :((
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Joel Palmer wrote:
I don't understand. What am I missing...
It's MS missing common sense.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
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Has any looked at the MSDN pricing lately? I do some MS Office (excel) integration for my customers so it requires that I get their version of MS Office (all the versions; 97 to 2013) to program against. To have access to Office I need to upgrade from the MSDN Pro to MSDN Premium... which costs $5000 more! Can anyone explain to me how they can justify charging developers $5000 to integrate with their products? I'm not writing the president's speeches using these installs. I'm writing software so my customers will continue to use MS products and purchase licenses. :(( I don't understand. What am I missing... besides the money to do it? :((
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
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Joel Palmer wrote:
how they can justify charging developers $5000
It's called business.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
You've missed the point. Developers are MS life blood. If I'm buying a MSDN subscription then I'm a pretty serious developer. As a developer I keep my customers coming back for more when I meet their requirements and if I do that using MS technology then the customers buy more MS licenses. Good business would be to let developers increase the MS bottom line by having them using more MS products in their solutions. Pricing their products out of a developer's solutions does not make any business sense.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
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You've missed the point. Developers are MS life blood. If I'm buying a MSDN subscription then I'm a pretty serious developer. As a developer I keep my customers coming back for more when I meet their requirements and if I do that using MS technology then the customers buy more MS licenses. Good business would be to let developers increase the MS bottom line by having them using more MS products in their solutions. Pricing their products out of a developer's solutions does not make any business sense.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
You are making a couple of faulty assumptions: that MS care about developers, and the MS care about end users. They don't: they care about money. And the large companies they expect to sell the top-end product to will just pay up and move on, because it isn't the people signing the purchase order's money. While there are people who will pay it, they will continue to gouge charge. Have to considered buying second hand copies of office on FleaBay to complete your collection that way, probably cost less than $500 for the lot...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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You've missed the point. Developers are MS life blood. If I'm buying a MSDN subscription then I'm a pretty serious developer. As a developer I keep my customers coming back for more when I meet their requirements and if I do that using MS technology then the customers buy more MS licenses. Good business would be to let developers increase the MS bottom line by having them using more MS products in their solutions. Pricing their products out of a developer's solutions does not make any business sense.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Joel Palmer wrote:
You've missed the point.
Not at all, I understand your point completely. You feel this price is too high for you, but you have not put into the context of what profits you make on the back of Mirosoft's technology.
Joel Palmer wrote:
Pricing their products out of a developer's solutions does not make any business sense.
Well, assuming that some people are paying their prices then it makes perfect business sense. It's pretty certain that these are not just arbitrary prices but based on Misrosoft knowing their target market. Mybe you should raise this with them.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
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You are making a couple of faulty assumptions: that MS care about developers, and the MS care about end users. They don't: they care about money. And the large companies they expect to sell the top-end product to will just pay up and move on, because it isn't the people signing the purchase order's money. While there are people who will pay it, they will continue to gouge charge. Have to considered buying second hand copies of office on FleaBay to complete your collection that way, probably cost less than $500 for the lot...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote:
You are making a couple of faulty assumptions: that MS care about developers, and the MS care about end users.
Er, no, I didn't make those assumptions anywhere.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
I know you didn't. But I think Joel did... :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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You are making a couple of faulty assumptions: that MS care about developers, and the MS care about end users. They don't: they care about money. And the large companies they expect to sell the top-end product to will just pay up and move on, because it isn't the people signing the purchase order's money. While there are people who will pay it, they will continue to gouge charge. Have to considered buying second hand copies of office on FleaBay to complete your collection that way, probably cost less than $500 for the lot...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
I agree with your conclusions but I don't agree that they don't care. MS is made up of a bunch of developers and we're developers. I think that's just a brash and over-extended generalization. Unless you're saying that you don't care about the work you do and you suspect that all developers are the same way. Just like the company I work for, they are priced at "what the market will bare". However, I do agree that its because we generally aren't the one filling the PO. Because we are one step removed they tend to get away with over-inflating their value. I'm just saying that it doesn't make business or logical sense that they'd price it with this much excess. Yes, Fleabay is likely my next step. Got a copy of MS Office 97 for sale?
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
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Joel Palmer wrote:
You've missed the point.
Not at all, I understand your point completely. You feel this price is too high for you, but you have not put into the context of what profits you make on the back of Mirosoft's technology.
Joel Palmer wrote:
Pricing their products out of a developer's solutions does not make any business sense.
Well, assuming that some people are paying their prices then it makes perfect business sense. It's pretty certain that these are not just arbitrary prices but based on Misrosoft knowing their target market. Mybe you should raise this with them.
Veni, vidi, abiit domum
Been there; done that. How many solutions will I need to develop to justify $5000 overhead? Here, I spent 4 hours taking that data and putting it in a spreadsheet. That'll be $6000.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
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I agree with your conclusions but I don't agree that they don't care. MS is made up of a bunch of developers and we're developers. I think that's just a brash and over-extended generalization. Unless you're saying that you don't care about the work you do and you suspect that all developers are the same way. Just like the company I work for, they are priced at "what the market will bare". However, I do agree that its because we generally aren't the one filling the PO. Because we are one step removed they tend to get away with over-inflating their value. I'm just saying that it doesn't make business or logical sense that they'd price it with this much excess. Yes, Fleabay is likely my next step. Got a copy of MS Office 97 for sale?
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
:laugh: Nope! But FleaBay[^] has loads! MS employs a lot of developers yes, but they don't set prices, and they don't care about prices - because they don't have to pay them. And they don't all care about other developers, or they wouldn't have made VS2010 all SHOUTY and gray... :laugh: And they would probably have tried to fix some of the worse bugs that still exist in the latest version from VS2005. :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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:laugh: Nope! But FleaBay[^] has loads! MS employs a lot of developers yes, but they don't set prices, and they don't care about prices - because they don't have to pay them. And they don't all care about other developers, or they wouldn't have made VS2010 all SHOUTY and gray... :laugh: And they would probably have tried to fix some of the worse bugs that still exist in the latest version from VS2005. :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
You must be a joy to have as a co-worker. :wtf: Oh no! Its 1/100ths empty. :wtf: Evidentially you've never written code in Notepad.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
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You must be a joy to have as a co-worker. :wtf: Oh no! Its 1/100ths empty. :wtf: Evidentially you've never written code in Notepad.
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Just a realist when it comes to MS: I got fed up with Beta testing on DOS because they never listened to feedback even then.
Joel Palmer wrote:
Evidentially you've never written code in Notepad.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Has any looked at the MSDN pricing lately? I do some MS Office (excel) integration for my customers so it requires that I get their version of MS Office (all the versions; 97 to 2013) to program against. To have access to Office I need to upgrade from the MSDN Pro to MSDN Premium... which costs $5000 more! Can anyone explain to me how they can justify charging developers $5000 to integrate with their products? I'm not writing the president's speeches using these installs. I'm writing software so my customers will continue to use MS products and purchase licenses. :(( I don't understand. What am I missing... besides the money to do it? :((
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Unf. Consultants don't correctly bill for their time in Software making a "flux" of "cheap" candidates that don't understand basic economics. I don't actively maintain an MSDN (although I was graced with one this year and last) but I do build the cost of software and training into my hourly rate. Perhaps you can consider a license burden fee of $500 for any client that uses any version but the latest of Office. Cost of doing business.
Need custom software developed? I do custom programming based primarily on MS tools with an emphasis on C# development and consulting. "And they, since they Were not the one dead, turned to their affairs" -- Robert Frost "All users always want Excel" --Ennis Lynch
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:laugh: Nope! But FleaBay[^] has loads! MS employs a lot of developers yes, but they don't set prices, and they don't care about prices - because they don't have to pay them. And they don't all care about other developers, or they wouldn't have made VS2010 all SHOUTY and gray... :laugh: And they would probably have tried to fix some of the worse bugs that still exist in the latest version from VS2005. :sigh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
OriginalGriff wrote:
VS2010 all SHOUTY and gray... :laugh:
Isn't that 2012 you are talking about? Idon't see the problem, apart from the Menus is VS 2012 (or 2013) by far better to work with.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
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Has any looked at the MSDN pricing lately? I do some MS Office (excel) integration for my customers so it requires that I get their version of MS Office (all the versions; 97 to 2013) to program against. To have access to Office I need to upgrade from the MSDN Pro to MSDN Premium... which costs $5000 more! Can anyone explain to me how they can justify charging developers $5000 to integrate with their products? I'm not writing the president's speeches using these installs. I'm writing software so my customers will continue to use MS products and purchase licenses. :(( I don't understand. What am I missing... besides the money to do it? :((
Joel Palmer Data Integration Engineer
Have you looked into BizSpark? http://www.microsoft.com/bizspark/[^]
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Just a realist when it comes to MS: I got fed up with Beta testing on DOS because they never listened to feedback even then.
Joel Palmer wrote:
Evidentially you've never written code in Notepad.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Just a realist when it comes to MS: I got fed up with Beta testing on DOS because they never listened to feedback even then.
Joel Palmer wrote:
Evidentially you've never written code in Notepad.
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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Thank you for that generous offer, but I will reluctantly have to decline. And I typed that with a straight face! I'm getting better at not swearing at people. :laugh:
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
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OriginalGriff wrote:
VS2010 all SHOUTY and gray... :laugh:
Isn't that 2012 you are talking about? Idon't see the problem, apart from the Menus is VS 2012 (or 2013) by far better to work with.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
Yes... :-O
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
