What is it with these Gay Rights people
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Richard Deeming wrote:
Way to turn the prejudice around - from "I hate f*gs" to "why do f*gs hate me".
Way to turn my argument about being left alone into a prejudice about turning another prejudice around. These are the arguments that people use to deflect what they don't want to hear. X|
Richard Deeming wrote:
How many heterophobic people have you encountered? How many stories have you read about gangs of homosexuals going round beating up anyone they thinks isn't gay? I'm going to guess at "none".
If you're going to bring up a separate argument into my point of discussion, then I blame global warming for creating gays. BTW, "none" implies some while "some" implies none or all.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Way to turn my argument about being left alone into a prejudice about turning another prejudice around.
I see. So you came to a thread about Russia's homophobic laws to make an entirely separate point about wanting the gays to leave you alone and stop trying to make you gay?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you're going to bring up a separate argument into my point of discussion
And suddenly, pointing out that nobody's trying to make you gay, and nobody's persecuting you for not being gay, is not related to your argument?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
BTW, "none" implies some while "some" implies none or all.
What?! Did you skip Basic Logic 101? :wtf: "None" implies "none". "Some" implies "some or all". It's not difficult. But then, I guess you're too busy fighting off the rampant homosexuals who are all trying to make you like c*ck to pay attention to irrelevant things like "facts" and "logic".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
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Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point. The fact is, mother/father relationships are normal because that's where children come from - their mom and dad. Race has nothing to do with this. The fact is, boys usually emulate dad and girls emulate mom. Considering how many unwanted kids (kids given up for adoption) we have and all that, the normal family structure has completely eroded. In a perfect world, rape would be eliminated and children born out of wedlock would no longer happen. Then mom and dad can bring up their kids the way they want them to. You wish to be gay? Fine! You wish to raise your child gay? Fine! But don't tell me I can't raise my son to believe that being gay is not wrong since I will be teaching him to be straight and that cannot coexist with being gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point.
But it's ok to inflict one group of prejudices on other people? Make it illegal to talk about something they think is wrong. No one's prejudices should be law(s).
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chriselst wrote:
So childless relationships between men and women are wrong and not normal then?
A implies B does not mean B implies A. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other and using an openning argument like that shows a failure in understanding.
chriselst wrote:
I'm not sure that's a fact, I doubt it is true at all.
That's absolutely true. Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact. If you had a son you would see that every single day.
chriselst wrote:
How on earth do you raise someone gay?
Who would you tell your child to date? If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex. You don't have kids, do you?
chriselst wrote:
You can tell your son whatever you want to, and with any luck he'll grow up to make his own mind up about things rather than hang on every word you've ever told him.
That's true. And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
chriselst wrote:
Again, how the hell can you teach someone to be straight
Same as above.
chriselst wrote:
Your son will be whoever and whatever he turns out to be. I hope for the sake of both of you that you can cope with what that is, because it is unlikely to be exactly what you have planned for him.
Hopefully, he'll be more influenced by family and friends than by television as well as grow up to make all the right choices.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact.
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex.
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former. As far as parenting goes, your job is to educate the child and let them make their own decisions. You shouldn't try and decide who your child is going to be, and you should try not to inflict your own prejudices on them. I know that it's not possible to keep all your prejudices from influencing them, but we should try our best. Ever seen American History X ?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Way to turn my argument about being left alone into a prejudice about turning another prejudice around.
I see. So you came to a thread about Russia's homophobic laws to make an entirely separate point about wanting the gays to leave you alone and stop trying to make you gay?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you're going to bring up a separate argument into my point of discussion
And suddenly, pointing out that nobody's trying to make you gay, and nobody's persecuting you for not being gay, is not related to your argument?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
BTW, "none" implies some while "some" implies none or all.
What?! Did you skip Basic Logic 101? :wtf: "None" implies "none". "Some" implies "some or all". It's not difficult. But then, I guess you're too busy fighting off the rampant homosexuals who are all trying to make you like c*ck to pay attention to irrelevant things like "facts" and "logic".
"These people looked deep within my soul and assigned me a number based on the order in which I joined." - Homer
Richard Deeming wrote:
I see. So you came to a thread about Russia's homophobic laws to make an entirely separate point about wanting the gays to leave you alone and stop trying to make you gay?
I said I agreed that people should be left alone, but it works both ways. The fact that you repeated the same argument was moot.
Richard Deeming wrote:
What?! Did you skip Basic Logic 101?
I took them in jest to mean air quotes. "None" implies "none" is true. But "none" with air quotes does not imply none without them. Hence my comment.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
As a father of a nine year old boy, I'm no longer sure about that. My son will learn about Ess-Eee-Ex in school this year and I've come to the conclusion that that might be better. The problem is, some parents may choose not to teach, while others may explain things differently. Kids will definitely talk about it in school and I'd rather they all get the same information from the same source at the same time. Waiting for the end of this school year to cross that bridge.
I agree, but only if the ed is appropriate for the kids age. It is sometimes surprising how prude parents f*ck this up.
Clean-up crew needed, grammar spill... - Nagy Vilmos
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Every prejudice that isn't yours would be wrong in your opinion. That is not the point.
But it's ok to inflict one group of prejudices on other people? Make it illegal to talk about something they think is wrong. No one's prejudices should be law(s).
No. But if you read all my other comments and examples, you'll see that you can't teach both sides at the same time. And by teach, I mean show on TV, discuss in school, put in government forms. Ergo, one side will be more dominantly portrayed than the other. And the straight side seems to be the losing side these days.
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Seriously, do you not watch TV in the US? But lets look at a few other examples. Government sex fields are no longer male/female only. There's about 10 or 12 fields including cross-dressers. Surprised the hell out of me. The government was going to change passport and other application forms to say parent 1 and 2 instead of mother and father on all official forms. Apparently, one side got upset that it's biased in one side and they don't want a separate form. Family trees in school are now based on who's living with whom as opposed to who's genes you have. There's a lot more other things that strongly suggest that father/mother relationships are not to be taught as fact anymore, but are one of several options. Promoting gayness is done by making straightness an option.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Since my son was born, I've seen how he emulates me mostly and other boys. This is a fact.
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If you're gay, you'd tell they they can date anyone. If you're straight, you'd tell them to date the opposite sex.
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former. As far as parenting goes, your job is to educate the child and let them make their own decisions. You shouldn't try and decide who your child is going to be, and you should try not to inflict your own prejudices on them. I know that it's not possible to keep all your prejudices from influencing them, but we should try our best. Ever seen American History X ?
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
And how you raise them greatly affects how they will grow up. Or is this not a fact either?
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
Im_no_troll wrote:
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bullshit! EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids.
Im_no_troll wrote:
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former.
Obviously the case for all is impossible one. But I would say with a high certainty that most parents want their kids to be like them in many ways. And that only enforces my point.
Im_no_troll wrote:
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
Promoting gayness is done by making straightness an option.
lol? did you read that before yoyu clicked submit?
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chriselst wrote:
It is absolutely true because you have observed one example. Nice sampling.
That was one example. Every boy that I've seen growing up emulated their father in one way or other. I have many nephews and cousins who are younger.
chriselst wrote:
Although you then contradict yourself, admitting he is emulating others too.
How is that a contradiction? Kids will eventually learn from other kids. But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
chriselst wrote:
Utter bollocks.
If you're a prejudiced throwback who cannot accept the real world then you tell them who to date and try to control their life. It has nothing to do with being gay or being straight.So the real world is letting them choose whatever they want with no input from you? The fact that you guide them does not mean you control them. No opinion in how they live is just as bad as controlling every aspect of it.
chriselst wrote:
I have not decided how she will lead her life, that is up to her. All I can do is give her all the information she needs to make her own informed choices and try to teach her to be kind to others.
I am not expecting you, nor me, to lead their lives for them. However, we are expected to guide them. Telling your daughter she can date whoever she wants at a young age is basically telling her she doesn't have to be straight. Ergo, you can be gay.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
The point is your sample set is too small to make a conclusive stance. I have 2 kids. A son and a daughter. My son will emulate me and my daughter emulates my wife. However, my daughter will also emulate me and my son will also emulate my wife. They also emulate each other and neighborhood kids. Sex of the child has little to do with it. It is more about who they are and what interests them. For example, my daughter does enjoy many masculine games and toys, but she also likes her Hello Kitty doll, Horse, and having tea parties. My son does not prefer to have tea parties but he certainly will have some with his sister sometimes because he enjoys playing with her. They play whatever they want and emulate whoever they want. As they get older they date who they want. Even in the case of hetero-sexual relationships a parent does say "No you can not date them". Is it always successful? I would say more often than not, the child just dates whom they want behind the parents back.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
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Im_no_troll wrote:
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bullshit! EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids.
Im_no_troll wrote:
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former.
Obviously the case for all is impossible one. But I would say with a high certainty that most parents want their kids to be like them in many ways. And that only enforces my point.
Im_no_troll wrote:
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other.
And they also emulate the other sex parent. No conclusive data can be obtained from that.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
You do not raise someone "straight". Think about it this way. What did your parents do (or not do) when raising you that made you straight? And before you say, you may want to think about it. Is the opposite true (i.e. if the other sex child was giving the same set of constraints/rules would that make them attracted to a different sex?)
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
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Richard Deeming wrote:
I see. So you came to a thread about Russia's homophobic laws to make an entirely separate point about wanting the gays to leave you alone and stop trying to make you gay?
I said I agreed that people should be left alone, but it works both ways. The fact that you repeated the same argument was moot.
Richard Deeming wrote:
What?! Did you skip Basic Logic 101?
I took them in jest to mean air quotes. "None" implies "none" is true. But "none" with air quotes does not imply none without them. Hence my comment.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
I said I agreed that people should be left alone, but it works both ways. The fact that you repeated the same argument was moot.
The first portion of what you said had meaning in the conversation. The second had implications, which the guy pointed out. Now you've done it again, but twice. You again implied something with the second portion. In order to agree with the first, we'd have to agree with the implications of the second. If we try to argue the implications, you'll point out the correctness of your statement. They did restate the same argument. What the essentially did was agree that everyone should be left alone, or accepted, but you're second point has implications.
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No. But if you read all my other comments and examples, you'll see that you can't teach both sides at the same time. And by teach, I mean show on TV, discuss in school, put in government forms. Ergo, one side will be more dominantly portrayed than the other. And the straight side seems to be the losing side these days.
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[check the forum title] yep this is the Soapbox so: I don't get the whole furore over Russia's gay laws. It seems to me the not being allowed to promote gay relationships to minors is a GOOD thing. If a teenager is so inclined then they will find out about their options as far as sexuality are concerned. If they are incapable of locating resources then they are not strongly motivated in the gay direction. And no I'm not homophobic, I don't give a rats arse what someones sexual preferences are just keep it to themselves. I would also like to include religion in the ban but I know I'd be pissing in the wind on that one.
Never underestimate the power of human stupidity RAH
It's like that Tom Daley fella. He's admitted he is gay but he is still allowed to Dive into shared Swimming Pools. I mean don't people realise that after these diving events have finished these pools are opened to the public, and children could swim in this very water?
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Im_no_troll wrote:
True, sure. Fact... only about YOUR situation, not every situation.
Bullshit! EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other. I've seen it in my dozen nephews and cousins. Hell, I even see it in myself. Manerisms and all that are picked up by kids.
Im_no_troll wrote:
This may be true among some people (probably prejudice). However, it is not true among all parents. Most parents, including myself, would say the former.
Obviously the case for all is impossible one. But I would say with a high certainty that most parents want their kids to be like them in many ways. And that only enforces my point.
Im_no_troll wrote:
That is a fact, and that is why it's important to be careful.
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other.
And I know a lesbian couple that has a strait daughter.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But I would say with a high certainty that most parents want their kids to be like them in many ways. And that only enforces my point.
That doesn't enforce your point
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
EVERY kids I've seen has emulated their same sex parent in one way or the other.
And they also emulate the other sex parent. No conclusive data can be obtained from that.
Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
There's nothing wrong with raising your kid straight and with good values.
You do not raise someone "straight". Think about it this way. What did your parents do (or not do) when raising you that made you straight? And before you say, you may want to think about it. Is the opposite true (i.e. if the other sex child was giving the same set of constraints/rules would that make them attracted to a different sex?)
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
And they also emulate the other sex parent. No conclusive data can be obtained from that.
To some degree they do. Particularly when their same sex parent is not around. That works on the same principle as husband and wife starting to look, dress, or sound alike after a few years of marriage. It happens. But the fact still remains that kids emulate their same sex parents. No question about it, which you and he have tried to dispute.
Collin Jasnoch wrote:
You do not raise someone "straight".
Think about it this way. What did your parents do (or not do) when raising you that made you straight? And before you say, you may want to think about it. Is the opposite true (i.e. if the other sex child was giving the same set of constraints/rules would that make them attracted to a different sex?)Bullshit! I saw them hugging and kissing and holding hands and being there in front of me every single day of the week until I moved out. If that's not raising me, then you have a very different definition for being raised. As for your last statement, that goes back to the argument of nature vs. nurture, choice vs. pre-ordained, or any other way you wish to compare it. We all have our opinions on that and I think mine have been heard enough.
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saying lol was me implying that your statement was not only false, but just silly. It just didnt' make sense.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
But before they go out and meet kids in school or even daycare, they start learning from and emulating their parents.
The point is your sample set is too small to make a conclusive stance. I have 2 kids. A son and a daughter. My son will emulate me and my daughter emulates my wife. However, my daughter will also emulate me and my son will also emulate my wife. They also emulate each other and neighborhood kids. Sex of the child has little to do with it. It is more about who they are and what interests them. For example, my daughter does enjoy many masculine games and toys, but she also likes her Hello Kitty doll, Horse, and having tea parties. My son does not prefer to have tea parties but he certainly will have some with his sister sometimes because he enjoys playing with her. They play whatever they want and emulate whoever they want. As they get older they date who they want. Even in the case of hetero-sexual relationships a parent does say "No you can not date them". Is it always successful? I would say more often than not, the child just dates whom they want behind the parents back.
Computers have been intelligent for a long time now. It just so happens that the program writers are about as effective as a room full of monkeys trying to crank out a copy of Hamlet. The interesting thing about software is it can not reproduce, until it can.
I don't disagree with that. However, if you had played with dolls with your son and you had your own doll collection or told him about your (hypothetical) doll collection growing up, he may have been more open. You can emulate someone by what you see and what you don't see. The fact that he plays with his sister is good upbringing. The fcat that he doesn't wish to be exactly like her is even better. But statistically speaking, he probably emulates you the most because you are his role model. Again, nothing you've said negates what I've seen, it just validates it. As for doing things behind your back, that will happen in dating and other aspects. However, I doubt you're not influencing them as they get older to make similar decisions. The problem is, as they get older, external influences (good and bad) get larger and stronger. That isn't anything that anyone can change.
