Stay Win XP, Why not?
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If you can't get the drivers to run natively, then run a virtual machine. I think you've about run out of excuses.
Why would anyone go to the bother of upgrading all their equipment to Win 7 or Win 8 to simply install a Win XP virtual machine and run it when we already have the hardware up and running Win XP. What a stupid, computer geek idea! Have you EVER run a profitable company!?
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Why would anyone go to the bother of upgrading all their equipment to Win 7 or Win 8 to simply install a Win XP virtual machine and run it when we already have the hardware up and running Win XP. What a stupid, computer geek idea! Have you EVER run a profitable company!?
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You said your "XP drivers" won't install under Win 7 / 8. I said they would with a VM. Period. Your rant was not relevant since I did not say you should upgrade.
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Hi. greeting to all!!! First, I must be clear in some points: - I will not show % or certified data, this is my personal feeling from all I know. (real life) - This "article" is planed to thing outside a country and mostly worldwide (that mean we don't live in USA) - I will not talk about which Win version is better or why Win8 sucks or whatever about the OS versions. - Sorry for my english is not as good, and it gets worst when I get emotional! Here I go, after reading a lot of reports and articles from CodeProject and other sources looks like everybody wants us to change from WinXP to Win7 or Win8... a lot of those articles seems surprised because more that 30% of the world is still using WinXP, and as much as I read I feel like those articles are just to scare and force people to buy new hardware and new software... You probably will be asking why not updating to new technology? I will tell you why you want to update if you are just browsing the web or just creating documents, Mozilla and Word97 are still usable for this purpose and also they work better that new technologies that just seems to be abusing and eating resources? (Why should I need Internet and one online account when I just want to write and print an small letter?) Security? no, you don't need that kind of extreme security level when you are in a small businesses or even in you home pc were your mother barely check Facebook, all you need is a good Firewall, a good antivirus and a good Internet browser. To be honest I feel that only big companies (ones that could be targeted by hackers and malicious attacks) should be really worried about the need of this update!!! Let see... those are examples of small business that I believe will never change they hardware and software (unless the hardware dies) - Net Cafes: that place were you pay 1 dollar or less by hour just to browse internet for an hour... - Small Companies: This is related to the company system they use and the amount of free money they can use, a company with 50 PCs, if they need to change all them, lets say 500 USD including the new Windows (and I'm not including Office) that means 25.000 USD just to be updated, but does this update means an increase in production? will they win more money thanks to this change, I think no, they will continue doing the same, and probably will also require to update the company specific software to new technology - Home PCs: I only see 2 kind of people updating they PCs to the new windows: Gamers and Tec addicts (Metro develop
I am staying with XP even at home for 3 reasons. First, cost of upgrading the hardware: Laptop requires at least another gig of RAM; desktop 1, 2 gigs or more; desktop 2 new CPU and so forth. Second, I have consulting clients who are running applications written using Visual Studio 2003. Neither Win 7 nor 8 will allow the installation of VS 2003. Upgrading several hundred thousand lines of VS2003, even to VS2010, is not a trivial undertaking. A third reason is common to many users: older peripheral devices for which there are probably no new drivers, for example: scanner, plotter, CNC machines, and various pieces of RS232 laboratory equipment.
Charles Wolfe C. Wolfe Software Engineering
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You are comparing an operating system with an HTML5 technology, are completely different things. HTML5 works on XP, you can change or install your browser to chrome or firefox.
NKS
HTML5 introduces holes in operating systems The fact that HTML5 runs on XP and XP has no protection against it is the reason.
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For HTML5 I would require it in old machines only maybe for browsing the web, then the responsibility will be lead to the Internet browser you use... If is an old machine probably you are not upgrading the software of that PC that means you will no install new word processors that uses HTML5 (probably the modern applications can't run in that old machines) then HTML5 for desktop apps is not a problem, your desktop just doesn't support html5! and if it's for internet browser or web apps, all the responsibility is in the Internet Browsers you use, the I would better apply your idea to what about Java, M.Flash and Silverlight... that probably will not be supporting winXP in a couple of months.
Desktop apps can leverage HTML5
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Forogar wrote:
Why did I put XP on them and then use them as file servers, you ask?
No, I asked no such thing.
Forogar wrote:
"But XP is no longer supported by Microsoft", you cry!
Nor did I 'cry' anything. I merely made a comment.
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Oh yeah? Well I wasn't talking about you! Nyah, nyah, nyah! I always like to give a mature and reasoned response.
- I would love to change the world, but they won’t give me the source code.
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I am staying with XP even at home for 3 reasons. First, cost of upgrading the hardware: Laptop requires at least another gig of RAM; desktop 1, 2 gigs or more; desktop 2 new CPU and so forth. Second, I have consulting clients who are running applications written using Visual Studio 2003. Neither Win 7 nor 8 will allow the installation of VS 2003. Upgrading several hundred thousand lines of VS2003, even to VS2010, is not a trivial undertaking. A third reason is common to many users: older peripheral devices for which there are probably no new drivers, for example: scanner, plotter, CNC machines, and various pieces of RS232 laboratory equipment.
Charles Wolfe C. Wolfe Software Engineering
A tip: I use to have your same issue with VS 2005 and 2008 for windows mobile development... if you need to install it on a win7 pc, first intall Win XP mode (it's a legal WinXP SP3 image), then you can run XP in Virtual machine or run the application in XP mode. I know, it's a little stupid to lose resources runing a virtual machine but at least your will be able to run Visual Studio. (that PC must be 8GB ram or more for better performance)
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If Win 7 and 8 "don't have the drivers", then you can install them yourself. You can retrieve them from your "other" OS if you don't have the distribution media. And while Win 7 and 8 will upgrade any drivers it does have (possibly to an incompatible level), if you first install the older drivers and then "roll them back" when they are upgraded, then you are back in business. I thought this was "obvious".
nop, there are a lot of old good hardware that is not supported in new Windows versions... (a lot of industrial specialiced hardware!!!) you can blame the manufacturer of the hardware for not upgrading the drivers but it's the same case of winXP not being supported anymore, the manufacturer want's you to buy the new hardware without reason, your old hardware still productive!!! (you can't imgine how productive are those old Matrix Printers, you can also use Carbon paper!!!!)
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If you are using "cost" as a reason not to upgrade, here's a small "fact". It would not cost "$500" per PC to upgrade. Just this week I was doing some research for a relative who was looking to "upgrade". Without too much difficulty I found refurbished PC's: 2GB RAM; 80GB hard drive; 2.4 GHz processor; with Windows 7 installed; for $99. (I would just add the other PC's hard drive as drive "D" to save on "conversion costs" .... a 5 minute job). (I personally own a "refurb" that I bought in 2004 and is still running .... XP ... that I use for version testing). Now, if you just wanted a copy of Windows 7, the price is about the same!
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Without too much difficulty I found refurbished PC's: 2GB RAM; 80GB hard drive; 2.4 GHz processor; with Windows 7 installed; for $99. (I would just add the other PC's hard drive as drive "D" to save on "conversion costs" .... a 5 minute job).
dude! that is not an upgrade today, if that hardware fails in a year your friend can hava a bad day trying to get parts... also, a pc with that spects (used) will cost like 200 USD due import taxes, plus antivirus, office and your compant software, that will require time and money!!! but I agree that options exist... some recomend to move to linux or like... (I don't the time that will require just to teach the users will cost more that just buying new windows pcs... Time is money!)
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If you are using "cost" as a reason not to upgrade, here's a small "fact". It would not cost "$500" per PC to upgrade. Just this week I was doing some research for a relative who was looking to "upgrade". Without too much difficulty I found refurbished PC's: 2GB RAM; 80GB hard drive; 2.4 GHz processor; with Windows 7 installed; for $99. (I would just add the other PC's hard drive as drive "D" to save on "conversion costs" .... a 5 minute job). (I personally own a "refurb" that I bought in 2004 and is still running .... XP ... that I use for version testing). Now, if you just wanted a copy of Windows 7, the price is about the same!
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Without too much difficulty I found refurbished PC's: 2GB RAM; 80GB hard drive; 2.4 GHz processor; with Windows 7 installed; for $99. (I would just add the other PC's hard drive as drive "D" to save on "conversion costs" .... a 5 minute job).
dude! that is not an upgrade today, if that hardware fails in a year your friend can hava a bad day trying to get parts... also, a pc with that spects (used) will cost like 200 USD due import taxes, plus antivirus, office and your compant software, that will require time and money!!! but I agree that options exist... some recomend to move to linux or like... (I don't, the time that will require just to teach the users will cost more that just buying new windows pcs... Time is money!)
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If it is dead, no longer sold, no source-code, not supported- then you NEEDED to upgrade. Anyone who hasn't should not be allowed to administer a network. That includes the idiots in the government that also said that upgrading "wasn't required".
Bastard Programmer from Hell :suss: If you can't read my code, try converting it here[^]
I do not agree, there are many situations where this is not possible. for example: companies that have machines dedicated to specific tasks with specific hardware windows xp and in these cases an upgrade involves changing the hardware of the machine, new drivers ... the price is too high to upgrade and certain machines can pass $ 100,000 or more per machine. A real example set in the company where I work, we still have machines running Windows 98, they only communicate via RS232. They are fast and working smoothly, maintenance is minimal and inexpensive, an upgrade in this case is a waste of money since it costs almost as much as buying a new one. The company has the top technology but in certain situations it is not profitable. I just agree to domestic users and even then there are still cases that this is a waste of money.
NKS
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HTML5 introduces holes in operating systems The fact that HTML5 runs on XP and XP has no protection against it is the reason.
You're only seeing users who have internet at home, but that users are a minority compared to companies. In large and medium-sized businesses, the internet is controlled by a firewall and other software as sharepoint. In these cases all accesses are controlled. Computers in domain in these companies do not have access to install or run software unauthorized private applications. Everything is controlled. Employees only have access to work sites and not to external sites such as facebook.
NKS
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A tip: I use to have your same issue with VS 2005 and 2008 for windows mobile development... if you need to install it on a win7 pc, first intall Win XP mode (it's a legal WinXP SP3 image), then you can run XP in Virtual machine or run the application in XP mode. I know, it's a little stupid to lose resources runing a virtual machine but at least your will be able to run Visual Studio. (that PC must be 8GB ram or more for better performance)
Thanks for the information. When I manage to upgrade the hardware, I'll give it a try.
Charles Wolfe C. Wolfe Software Engineering
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You're only seeing users who have internet at home, but that users are a minority compared to companies. In large and medium-sized businesses, the internet is controlled by a firewall and other software as sharepoint. In these cases all accesses are controlled. Computers in domain in these companies do not have access to install or run software unauthorized private applications. Everything is controlled. Employees only have access to work sites and not to external sites such as facebook.
NKS
A firewall doesn't protect against HTML, it passes through it without a second thought Everything is controlled said the major company that was about to be hacked. A group policy computer in a controlled environment doesn't ensure 0 undesired software makes its way onto the machine. XP is a walk in the park. Also software doesn't even need to get directly on the machine to be an issue. If any resources over a intranet access updated code it opens the local machine up to a hacker like their connected via VPN
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Member 4673202 wrote:
well, is not about if you like, is more about do you really need it? and in other cases, can you afford it?
In the case of XP, since MS no longer support it and that means that newly revealed security weaknesses will no longer be addressed it's more a case of "can you afford not to?". Would you use your credit cards on an XP machine happily? Because I wouldn't...
Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it. --- George Santayana (December 16, 1863 – September 26, 1952) Those who fail to clear history are doomed to explain it. --- OriginalGriff (February 24, 1959 – ∞)
With the know bugs in open souyrce ssl code, would anyone use a creadit card at the moment, regadles of OS or browser? Security has over the internet, has little to do with the O/S versiopn, or whether MS still supportsd it, Whih recent event show that MS still if presured to do so will fix security issues with XP. Its the nature of IT ppl to insist keeping updated, it's how they earn a liviing As a deveolper, I'm more concerned about backward compatibilty, and keeping users/ family members happy andf productive. I see no reason not to stick with XP, if thats what you want. Just don't listen to anyone who tells you that you are at risk, becuse of security issues. MS stopppoed producing new version of IE for XP a long time ago, as an incentive for ppl to move to a newer windows. But I took it as in incentive to move to Chrome instead. Don't get me wrong, I use Windows 7 as well, mainly as thin clients to acces VMWare. But the real work horses are still XP VMs. AS a small business, I simply cant afford the time, effort, or cost t invloved to upgrade, these VM from XP to Win7. Ther are lost of issue, I have investigated, and decided, I simply can't do it. Sever hardwrae needs replacing. Win 7 now longer has Outlook Express, (Live mail, not a real alternative) My VMWARE V2 won't run win7 in console with crashing. (althouh RDP seems fine). Apps I use on XP boxes, no longer available and the list goes on... So I agree wcom[pletly with you, and understand how this is causing you hi emotion.
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Actually the last time I upgraded a Windows version was from Windows For Workgroups to Windows 95. All the other changes to Windows have come when I bought a new computer. My last Win XP laptop was replaced a year or so ago, although I still have it around somewhere. My other machines are 1 Vista desktop, 1 Vista laptop, 1 Win 7 desktop, 3 Win 7 laptops, 1 Win 8.1 desktop, 2 Win 8.1 tablets. If I were only browsing the web and writing Word documents, I'd just use an old machine and run Linux with OpenOffice. I'm not sure why you have trouble using Win 8. It took me about 10 minutes to get used to it on my desktop and less time on my tablets.
CQ de W5ALT
Walt Fair, Jr., P. E. Comport Computing Specializing in Technical Engineering Software
I agree, Win 7 is much better all round, but the path to get there is just too much work. IF MS had an auto upgrade where you keep all you aps, and Outlook express upgraded to Live mail properly, and if the VM stil run properly on VMWAre server 2, and server 2, andyou didn'thave to upgrade your infrastructure, and if you could spare the time involved, and be ablto avoid th time and money involved inre-education, and... the list goes on.
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Firewalls, scanners will not help fix bugs in IE. It will not help make the kernel more secure.
Sorry disagree with this, it can be done by a good and mature development company, but not sure if somebody can see a real marked here. You know, hacks, injection of code, that all works for kernels, as a virus, but this time you are fixing the kernel...
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I'd recommend against consulting "feelings" when talking about the security of your network. And yes, if the only company that holds the source-code tells you it's being retired, then you HAVE TO.
I have been thinking on a better example of this... because I don't see the need to remove thinks just because support have ended, you will continue using them if they still work... then I recall the best example are Cars!!! if you have and old car, that is not supported anymore, you cant get spare parts.... but the car at this moment is 100% functional, will you replace it just because there is no support anymore or will you wait until the car fail and you cant fix it because there is no support?... probably I will wait and I will change when I really need. so remember that I'm concentrated in a business area that have not big impact around the technology they are using, cases were you can live years with a very old PCs, places where they will have the need to change only when as you point there is no people around to support them (no one knows how to install XP!!!) oh something I forgot, I'm not telling we shouldn't upgrade... It's just that I believe there are 2 paths one where is good and were you can upgrade as much as you want and one where you just don't have the need to upgrade and you can live happy without that needs.
Once again, with the security agument reason for upgrading. No one is secure anywhere, Infact it wont be long before XP will be more secure, as it will not be targeted anymore. The only argument, I would use is that if you want to continue using IE, then you need to upgrade, because MS have delibritly gone out of thier way to not allow modern IE on XP. Just use CHrOme iinstead. And don't listen o the secruity rhetoric.
