Stackoverflow website sucks because of its moderators and Top Users
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I never tried SO. They discriminate newbies, so I have a feeling that they will discriminate women more. :sigh:
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
http://stackoverflow.com/users/1535478/jennifer-marsman-msft[^] http://stackoverflow.com/users/471760/julie-lerman[^] http://stackoverflow.com/users/148870/amber[^] To be fair, I am not a woman, and I don't know the discrimination of women firsthand. But I am a StackOverflow user, and have had a number of very good and useful answers from the women there, and have never seen anything to suggest there was a discrimination problem. Just write good questions and the answers will flow.
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As a regular participant on the site (Matt Davis), I understand what you are referring to, but I take exception to the notion that all "the top uses" start voting down and ranting. I have never once seen Jon Skeet, for example, "rant" on SO. The same goes for Marc Gravell and most of the other truly top users. Most of the top users and many others, including myself, view SO as an opportunity to share our knowledge and experience with those that may be new or stuck on a particular problem. This covers the vast majority of my experience on the site. Still, your criticism is not without merit. There are some users that do tend to lord their experience over newer users and abuse the privileges afforded by their reputation. But these are not ordinary SO users. They represent a small, but sometimes very vocal, minority. In my experience, new users that ask a "simple" question are often asking a poor question. In many cases, the question has already been asked and answered before by other users. In these cases, the questions are closed quickly with a link to the duplicate. Other times, it is clear that the question is related to homework, which is a clear "no-no" on the site. Still other times, the question is convoluted or constructed with very poor English to the point that it is simply impossible to understand what is being asked. In both of these cases, the questions will be closed quickly, which may certainly add to the frustration of a new user but is in keeping with the policies that have been enforced for years now. For me, SO is an invaluable resource. I find that many problems I encounter have already been addressed on the site, and I flag many questions so that I can use the answers for quick reference in the future. There is no other place like it on the internet for developers. In closing, I regret that your experience with SO has been met with frustration. Despite your misgivings, I stand by my claim that the vast majority of users are there to help, not to tear down. I would encourage you to continue learning and, when possible, contribute to the learning to those coming behind you. That's how we help ensure the progression of our craft.
Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
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Part of the reason for the brutal honesty on SO has to do with eliminating bad answers. If you post an answer where your code is doing something stupid/horrible/etc you will get down voted, and I think that is appropriate. I see a lot of people on this thread who sound to me like they got their ego bruised by some 'Murican, and are not equipped to deal with it. Remember we all have ego's including you, try and stop and think if it is your own ego getting in the way of understanding why people are flaming you on SO. Calling them names solves anything? Well maybe it protects your ego? I don't answer questions on SO ever because I do not believe being involved in flame wars on a "professional" site is going to benefit my career. I have seen people get flamed even when it turned out the flamer was wrong! I have asked several questions, and never got down voted or flamed.
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I like answering people's questions on forums. Those forums allow people to ask questions, and allow other people to answer those questions. The main goal there is to get answersto the questions, and as a side-effect, it creates a sort of database filled with information in a Q&A format (the old topics). Stackoverflow flips this around, its main goal is get a sort of database with information in a Q&A format. And it has the side-effect that people get an answer to their question. They don't care about the people that ask the question, or the answer, all they care about is the information.
Er, no, the goal of SO is to have good questions with good answers. That's why it is the go-to place for professionals to find answers. Several times every week I google a technical issue and almost always the explanation or answer is already posted at SO.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
Yes, I've noticed the attitude over there as well. Since CP wants to compete with SO why not build a Knowledge Tree of posts and answers that they could quickly search and browse (and link to articles)? I have yet to see a proper Knowledge Tree structure implemented anywhere yet. And I've haven't had the time to write about it. But it's a proper and significant next generation step in the evolution of knowledge structures (another concept that needs writing about). If anyone is significantly interested I will do a CP article on this.
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I lost my old account, created a new one asked a question, was corrected on grammar about 5 times in 2 hours, rolled them all back and got a snooty note for roll backs. It totally cured me of spending time on StackOverflow and answering questions. See there is a good side to everything!!!
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Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
This is the kind of request you'd make on the Meta StackOverflow site. Be forewarned, though, phrasing such a request the way you just did will elicit the same kind of venom you are decrying.
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
Did you read the answers to the question? They make it perfectly clear that rude answers are (1) a minority, (2) impossible to rule out altogether, and (3) can be flagged.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
SO works by the following rule: garbage in - garbage out. Lets have a look at the question that you asked and we might figure out why it was down voted and how to improve your experience on SO.
PersonalityMatch.net - online dating without Profile Pictures
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
I like stackoverflow.com, though I have seen some limited behavior like you described. Many users are way too quick to down vote both questions and answers. I've used the site for several years and have only down voted once or twice. I reserve that for extreme circumstances such as abuse or repeating the same problems many times while ignoring question asking advice from other users. There are a few recurring issues that people have with asking questions on there that could be helped with better research and communication skills by the askers of questions. Sometimes there are disagreements about exactly what does qualify as a suitable topic for SO (or it's sister sites) as well as the tags used for questions. Once I asked a question on there about the using sed. Some people may have considered that question to have not been on topic because it wasn't enough of a programming question, but it was answered. If I had been asking a general user question, such as "How do I run a program on Windows 98?" then I'd probably have been down voted because it wasn't a programming question (and because it mentioned "Windows 98"). Asking a question on SO should almost never be the first thing anyone does when a question comes to mind. When you post a question there it takes up other people's valuable time to read, consider, research, and answer (ignoring the time that it takes for someone to down vote), so if someone asks a question on SO that could easily have been answered by Googling then people are likely to down vote that question because they take it as disrespectful of the value of their time. If someone does look for resources and is still confused, or even confused by the resources, then cite those resources in your question. If no resources can be found, mention what you've searched on (the keywords). It is quite common that people are calling a concept the wrong thing or at least something other than what it is commonly known as, which can make searching and asking questions not work out well. SO is in English, so make sure that you're English is readable. It would be nice if native language wasn't an issue, but it is. If you're question makes no sense grammatically then it will be misunderstood, ignored, or down voted. People on SO will try to help fix up questions like this, and the asker needs to check back to read the changes, suggested changes, and pleads for clarity that other users have posted. Personally I often find it easier to read broken English if I know what the writer's native la
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
I've been on Stack Overflow both making and answering questions, and I have found it a great community overall, however, to get a good answer, you should ask a good question, this is more evident on newbies, who often ask either, to give them the code, something that has been answered multiple times before, or you realize that they don't even understand some basic concepts; most of the time I try to help them (even when they should not ask that, do a quick search or it's not the purpose of SO), but when you're on the 100th question of the same style you may start to loose your temper, in the end we're all persons, so please don't be quick to judge the whole community just because someone freaked out.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
"Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct." So what would be correct? How do you handle the large inflow of questions from users who won't bother to read FAQs, or lurk long enough to understand the etiquette? How would you handle the users who can't be bothered to do their own research? Or search? Or think for two seconds? How about the users who just post their homework questions? Literally, post their homework questions? Whatever your answer is, I'm certain you'd probably do that for a little while. Maybe even a little longer than a little while, then you'll get tired of it and just start employing the mechanisms available to start cleaning up the environment. You still didn't link to your question. With that we could help you understand why your question was a low quality question and how you could make it better. Yes, SO as a public forum has to deal with issue of every person with an internet connection. Yes, sometimes people are just rude, or your perception of their text is that it's rude... but that's life. Do you go to SO to feel loved or get an answer to a question/problem? Focus on the latter and the former becomes moot.
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Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
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"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
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Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
Let's make sure we don't lose focus of what's going on, the user (like OP) is coming to the site asking for free help, and complaining when he doesn't get what he wants on his terms. It's not a case of food tasting spoiled, it's a case of coming in, demanding stuff, and complaining when the free meal isn't up to the level they wanted. They can look around and see tons of others enjoying their meals, but since the newb's meal isn't as good it must be just because he's new and the senior people don't like him. It's *definitely not* because the newb didn't read the rules when he came in and proceeded to ignore them when making his demands. Like someone else here stated, garbage-in garbage out. Take the time to write a quality question, and they'll get quality effort (again, free) out of people who want to help. Come in with a stupid question and it'll be taken as the lack of respect for other people's time that it is. Thousands of users, many new, get by on SO every day... they're asking questions, getting answers, and generally everything is flowing well. The OP, complaining, refuses to even link to his own question. I believe he's well aware his question was poor, but it's easier to just come here and complain.
Br.Bill wrote:
Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement.
Agreed, but it's a matter of perspective. Wade through enough of those low quality questions and you'll be glad that the better system (downvotes and flagging to knock the poor questions out of site) is there.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
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So in what reason did you engage in an argument with ladies? :-O
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
Knock it off you two. If I have to stop this planet, so help me... :-D
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Not true. Any edit to a closed question automatically adds it to the reopen queue. (On the assumption that the edit was an attempt to fix what was wrong.) You could also try leaving a moderator flag or asking why it was closed on Meta. However the Moderators aren't likely to summarily reopen it unless it was obviously closed by mistake or has ended up the subject of a close war; ditto for asking on Meta.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
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It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
I'm curious what you consider a cool question on SO that's been unfairly closed. I've got >100 questions there; none of which have been closed for any reason other than being duplicates. I don't have access to the close vote queue; but very little of what I see in the Very Low Quality one makes it above marginal.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt