Stackoverflow website sucks because of its moderators and Top Users
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I lost my old account, created a new one asked a question, was corrected on grammar about 5 times in 2 hours, rolled them all back and got a snooty note for roll backs. It totally cured me of spending time on StackOverflow and answering questions. See there is a good side to everything!!!
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Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
This is the kind of request you'd make on the Meta StackOverflow site. Be forewarned, though, phrasing such a request the way you just did will elicit the same kind of venom you are decrying.
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
Did you read the answers to the question? They make it perfectly clear that rude answers are (1) a minority, (2) impossible to rule out altogether, and (3) can be flagged.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
SO works by the following rule: garbage in - garbage out. Lets have a look at the question that you asked and we might figure out why it was down voted and how to improve your experience on SO.
PersonalityMatch.net - online dating without Profile Pictures
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
I like stackoverflow.com, though I have seen some limited behavior like you described. Many users are way too quick to down vote both questions and answers. I've used the site for several years and have only down voted once or twice. I reserve that for extreme circumstances such as abuse or repeating the same problems many times while ignoring question asking advice from other users. There are a few recurring issues that people have with asking questions on there that could be helped with better research and communication skills by the askers of questions. Sometimes there are disagreements about exactly what does qualify as a suitable topic for SO (or it's sister sites) as well as the tags used for questions. Once I asked a question on there about the using sed. Some people may have considered that question to have not been on topic because it wasn't enough of a programming question, but it was answered. If I had been asking a general user question, such as "How do I run a program on Windows 98?" then I'd probably have been down voted because it wasn't a programming question (and because it mentioned "Windows 98"). Asking a question on SO should almost never be the first thing anyone does when a question comes to mind. When you post a question there it takes up other people's valuable time to read, consider, research, and answer (ignoring the time that it takes for someone to down vote), so if someone asks a question on SO that could easily have been answered by Googling then people are likely to down vote that question because they take it as disrespectful of the value of their time. If someone does look for resources and is still confused, or even confused by the resources, then cite those resources in your question. If no resources can be found, mention what you've searched on (the keywords). It is quite common that people are calling a concept the wrong thing or at least something other than what it is commonly known as, which can make searching and asking questions not work out well. SO is in English, so make sure that you're English is readable. It would be nice if native language wasn't an issue, but it is. If you're question makes no sense grammatically then it will be misunderstood, ignored, or down voted. People on SO will try to help fix up questions like this, and the asker needs to check back to read the changes, suggested changes, and pleads for clarity that other users have posted. Personally I often find it easier to read broken English if I know what the writer's native la
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
I've been on Stack Overflow both making and answering questions, and I have found it a great community overall, however, to get a good answer, you should ask a good question, this is more evident on newbies, who often ask either, to give them the code, something that has been answered multiple times before, or you realize that they don't even understand some basic concepts; most of the time I try to help them (even when they should not ask that, do a quick search or it's not the purpose of SO), but when you're on the 100th question of the same style you may start to loose your temper, in the end we're all persons, so please don't be quick to judge the whole community just because someone freaked out.
CEO at: - Rafaga Systems - Para Facturas - Modern Components for the moment...
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
"Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct." So what would be correct? How do you handle the large inflow of questions from users who won't bother to read FAQs, or lurk long enough to understand the etiquette? How would you handle the users who can't be bothered to do their own research? Or search? Or think for two seconds? How about the users who just post their homework questions? Literally, post their homework questions? Whatever your answer is, I'm certain you'd probably do that for a little while. Maybe even a little longer than a little while, then you'll get tired of it and just start employing the mechanisms available to start cleaning up the environment. You still didn't link to your question. With that we could help you understand why your question was a low quality question and how you could make it better. Yes, SO as a public forum has to deal with issue of every person with an internet connection. Yes, sometimes people are just rude, or your perception of their text is that it's rude... but that's life. Do you go to SO to feel loved or get an answer to a question/problem? Focus on the latter and the former becomes moot.
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Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
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"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
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Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
Let's make sure we don't lose focus of what's going on, the user (like OP) is coming to the site asking for free help, and complaining when he doesn't get what he wants on his terms. It's not a case of food tasting spoiled, it's a case of coming in, demanding stuff, and complaining when the free meal isn't up to the level they wanted. They can look around and see tons of others enjoying their meals, but since the newb's meal isn't as good it must be just because he's new and the senior people don't like him. It's *definitely not* because the newb didn't read the rules when he came in and proceeded to ignore them when making his demands. Like someone else here stated, garbage-in garbage out. Take the time to write a quality question, and they'll get quality effort (again, free) out of people who want to help. Come in with a stupid question and it'll be taken as the lack of respect for other people's time that it is. Thousands of users, many new, get by on SO every day... they're asking questions, getting answers, and generally everything is flowing well. The OP, complaining, refuses to even link to his own question. I believe he's well aware his question was poor, but it's easier to just come here and complain.
Br.Bill wrote:
Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement.
Agreed, but it's a matter of perspective. Wade through enough of those low quality questions and you'll be glad that the better system (downvotes and flagging to knock the poor questions out of site) is there.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
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So in what reason did you engage in an argument with ladies? :-O
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
Knock it off you two. If I have to stop this planet, so help me... :-D
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Not true. Any edit to a closed question automatically adds it to the reopen queue. (On the assumption that the edit was an attempt to fix what was wrong.) You could also try leaving a moderator flag or asking why it was closed on Meta. However the Moderators aren't likely to summarily reopen it unless it was obviously closed by mistake or has ended up the subject of a close war; ditto for asking on Meta.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
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It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
I'm curious what you consider a cool question on SO that's been unfairly closed. I've got >100 questions there; none of which have been closed for any reason other than being duplicates. I don't have access to the close vote queue; but very little of what I see in the Very Low Quality one makes it above marginal.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I'm curious what you consider a cool question on SO that's been unfairly closed. I've got >100 questions there; none of which have been closed for any reason other than being duplicates. I don't have access to the close vote queue; but very little of what I see in the Very Low Quality one makes it above marginal.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Search for ".NET Gotcha"[^] An example of question lots of people loved and that got closed. If a question have lots of vote, it should be harder to close it. Or at they can just give a way to easily reopen it by vote.
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Search for ".NET Gotcha"[^] An example of question lots of people loved and that got closed. If a question have lots of vote, it should be harder to close it. Or at they can just give a way to easily reopen it by vote.
Stackoverflow isn't and doesn't want to be a forum. Big list questions like that aren't wanted; I'm surprised that question hasn't been locked with the annotation that it doesn't meet current standards and has not been deleted solely for historical reasons (read too many links pointing to it).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Stackoverflow isn't and doesn't want to be a forum. Big list questions like that aren't wanted; I'm surprised that question hasn't been locked with the annotation that it doesn't meet current standards and has not been deleted solely for historical reasons (read too many links pointing to it).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
You have question marked as "wiki", and this one could be, since you learn usefull stuff. This question with 200 votes, and the top posts very interesting, a small number of moderators should not be able to lock it as easily as a question with 2 votes, or at least, other moderators should be able to unlock it by vote.
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I have never had any issue on SO. Most of the downvoted questions that I have seen have been because OP asked a question that is covered by 10 other previous posts, did not show any work, is vague, or is asking for recommendations that are often going to be biased. If, however, you do research and ensure that there are no other answers on SO that fit your situation, AND you create a well written post that shows what you have done, shows where you are having the problem, explains what you THINK is going on, etc, it will get answered. I have found that if I write my post, and look at the right hand pane there are a bunch of suggestions, and often I have found my answer there without posting, maybe 10 our of 15 times.
You've never had any issue? Well you clearly have not used it enough then. Pandu's mentioned problem is very real, but is compounded by the oligarchic design of the site. The authors and moderators argue that it helps to keep the content "pure" and reduces the garbage content, but it's an outdated very unfriendly methodology that punishes naive users who don't deserve to be punished, and in many cases prevents useful knowledge from being captured just because it doesn't meet the overlords' idealistic view of what the site should be. You can't change a vote after you've voted. You can't edit your own comment after 5 minutes. You can't delete a question if it has answers. Rules like this hurt the quality of a crowdsourced website, they don't improve it. Stack Overflow is an incredibly valuable resource. But it's valuable despite its horribly restrictive and big brotherish design, not because of it.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
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To be fair, I think they have the same problem that Q&A does here - bit they've just gone too far! That's a fine line we draw - we don't want idiots or lazy people asking questions - but sometimes people can get a bit over-zealous! the motto should be, I think, "there is no such thing as a bad question" Rather than "your question is crap - downvoted" people should be answering "your question crap because xxxxx - how can we help you phrase it better ? Power corrupts, and all that, in action, unfortunately! it is interesting how there are a few people here (i.e. on CP) who are the very epitome of calm, assured experience with a twist of helpfulness (I'm thinking of you, Boyo, and you Jedi && !Stig) but there are also those who would be better placed at SO (I'm thinking of you, 'he who must not be named) I wonder why the latter stay here
PooperPig - Coming Soon
Another thing that drives me crazy is the bloodlust moderators have to close questions that are even remotely similar to another question on the site, even if that question is 2 years old and has no solution. Often questions will only bear a surface similarity to another question and will get closed as a duplicate (perhaps they share the same obstacle or bug) even when what is being asked is completely different. Sometimes the question is the same, but no one has provided a satisfactory answer on the other question. Give me a way to bump an old question and add my own information to it and this would be fine! But just because a question has been asked doesn't mean it should never be asked again!. SO needs a better way to merge duplicate questions instead of just closing the duplicate and preventing new answers. If someone asks the same question as another, their question should be merged with the original question and bumped as if it were a new question so that people using the site will see it and be able to answer it again. Keeping an unanswered question around historically with no new information is worthless.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
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Yes, I know. Yet ambiguous.
Actually no it's not ambiguous. Your interpretation would result in an invalid sentence fragment as it has no verb. ;)
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-