Stackoverflow website sucks because of its moderators and Top Users
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
"Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct." So what would be correct? How do you handle the large inflow of questions from users who won't bother to read FAQs, or lurk long enough to understand the etiquette? How would you handle the users who can't be bothered to do their own research? Or search? Or think for two seconds? How about the users who just post their homework questions? Literally, post their homework questions? Whatever your answer is, I'm certain you'd probably do that for a little while. Maybe even a little longer than a little while, then you'll get tired of it and just start employing the mechanisms available to start cleaning up the environment. You still didn't link to your question. With that we could help you understand why your question was a low quality question and how you could make it better. Yes, SO as a public forum has to deal with issue of every person with an internet connection. Yes, sometimes people are just rude, or your perception of their text is that it's rude... but that's life. Do you go to SO to feel loved or get an answer to a question/problem? Focus on the latter and the former becomes moot.
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Perhaps if the more powerful users who are being dickish had a way to get downvoted for their dickish behavior, it would help make it a more friendly environment. Newbs on the site have no power at all. They're encouraged to ask questions to gain reputation and then are often slammed for asking inappropriate questions. Sure, they should read the FAQ. But they're newbs. It's their job not to know what they're doing. When one of the dickish power users inappropriately punishes a newb for being a newb, or punishes an experienced user for doing something the power user just doesn't like personally, we "rabble" should have some way to vote asshole points on that power user. SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den.
"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
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"SO should put some effort into preventing the the site from becoming exactly what it isn't supposed to be - a bully den." They do. SO is one of the most anal run help sites I've ever seen. Drop into meta sometime and read some of the conversations that go on in there, all over a help site. Yes, occasionally people with the appropriate seniority will do things that don't seem fair, and probably aren't fair, but that's not the site as a whole. Further, that alone isn't an explanation as to why these people (like the OP) are having such horrific experiences at SO. The more likely explanation (which we'd probably see should he ever post a link to his question) is that they refuse to take the time to write a useful question. The reason newbs don't get "dick points" to hand out anytime they get butt hurt over someone else is precisely the same reason they're butt hurt in the first place, because they haven't been around long enough to understand the community. But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
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Jadoti wrote:
But hey, feel free to start your own QA site. Many start with the mission of "we'll take the time to explain anything to anyone" quickly devolves into "RTFM!" in due time as those spending their precious time answering questions start getting tired of people not bothering to do their own work before asking.
That's like saying, "hey, if you don't like Avatar, make your own movie." One doesn't have to be an expert in cuisine to know when food tastes spoiled. Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement. I'm not asking for people to give up on expecting users to know the rules; as software dev tools support engineer, I field all kinds of questions every day, from the idiotic to the supremely perplexing software failures. It's easier for me to approach it with care because I get paid a fair amount to do it. But the minority of SO (and all the unconnected-with-your-account sites that go with it) volunteers who are just bags of disdain, should not be left unchecked. It's really hard to get any traction when you're at the bottom of the food chain, and SO is worse in this respect than most food chains.
Let's make sure we don't lose focus of what's going on, the user (like OP) is coming to the site asking for free help, and complaining when he doesn't get what he wants on his terms. It's not a case of food tasting spoiled, it's a case of coming in, demanding stuff, and complaining when the free meal isn't up to the level they wanted. They can look around and see tons of others enjoying their meals, but since the newb's meal isn't as good it must be just because he's new and the senior people don't like him. It's *definitely not* because the newb didn't read the rules when he came in and proceeded to ignore them when making his demands. Like someone else here stated, garbage-in garbage out. Take the time to write a quality question, and they'll get quality effort (again, free) out of people who want to help. Come in with a stupid question and it'll be taken as the lack of respect for other people's time that it is. Thousands of users, many new, get by on SO every day... they're asking questions, getting answers, and generally everything is flowing well. The OP, complaining, refuses to even link to his own question. I believe he's well aware his question was poor, but it's easier to just come here and complain.
Br.Bill wrote:
Any situation can be made better, and calling out the shortcomings of a system can indeed lead to improvement.
Agreed, but it's a matter of perspective. Wade through enough of those low quality questions and you'll be glad that the better system (downvotes and flagging to knock the poor questions out of site) is there.
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
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So in what reason did you engage in an argument with ladies? :-O
Don't mind those people who say you're not HOT. At least you know you're COOL. I'm not afraid of falling, I'm afraid of the sudden stop at the end of the fall! - Richard Andrew x64
Knock it off you two. If I have to stop this planet, so help me... :-D
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Not true. Any edit to a closed question automatically adds it to the reopen queue. (On the assumption that the edit was an attempt to fix what was wrong.) You could also try leaving a moderator flag or asking why it was closed on Meta. However the Moderators aren't likely to summarily reopen it unless it was obviously closed by mistake or has ended up the subject of a close war; ditto for asking on Meta.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
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It is more easy to close than reopen. I can't see the reason why it is the case. So much time I found a cool question, wanted to give response but a stupid one closed it. It is very frustrating.
I'm curious what you consider a cool question on SO that's been unfairly closed. I've got >100 questions there; none of which have been closed for any reason other than being duplicates. I don't have access to the close vote queue; but very little of what I see in the Very Low Quality one makes it above marginal.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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I'm curious what you consider a cool question on SO that's been unfairly closed. I've got >100 questions there; none of which have been closed for any reason other than being duplicates. I don't have access to the close vote queue; but very little of what I see in the Very Low Quality one makes it above marginal.
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
Search for ".NET Gotcha"[^] An example of question lots of people loved and that got closed. If a question have lots of vote, it should be harder to close it. Or at they can just give a way to easily reopen it by vote.
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Search for ".NET Gotcha"[^] An example of question lots of people loved and that got closed. If a question have lots of vote, it should be harder to close it. Or at they can just give a way to easily reopen it by vote.
Stackoverflow isn't and doesn't want to be a forum. Big list questions like that aren't wanted; I'm surprised that question hasn't been locked with the annotation that it doesn't meet current standards and has not been deleted solely for historical reasons (read too many links pointing to it).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
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Stackoverflow isn't and doesn't want to be a forum. Big list questions like that aren't wanted; I'm surprised that question hasn't been locked with the annotation that it doesn't meet current standards and has not been deleted solely for historical reasons (read too many links pointing to it).
Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man with a wise brow and pulseless heart, waging all things in the balance of reason? Is not rather the genius of history like an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful? --Zachris Topelius Training a telescope on one’s own belly button will only reveal lint. You like that? You go right on staring at it. I prefer looking at galaxies. -- Sarah Hoyt
You have question marked as "wiki", and this one could be, since you learn usefull stuff. This question with 200 votes, and the top posts very interesting, a small number of moderators should not be able to lock it as easily as a question with 2 votes, or at least, other moderators should be able to unlock it by vote.
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I have never had any issue on SO. Most of the downvoted questions that I have seen have been because OP asked a question that is covered by 10 other previous posts, did not show any work, is vague, or is asking for recommendations that are often going to be biased. If, however, you do research and ensure that there are no other answers on SO that fit your situation, AND you create a well written post that shows what you have done, shows where you are having the problem, explains what you THINK is going on, etc, it will get answered. I have found that if I write my post, and look at the right hand pane there are a bunch of suggestions, and often I have found my answer there without posting, maybe 10 our of 15 times.
You've never had any issue? Well you clearly have not used it enough then. Pandu's mentioned problem is very real, but is compounded by the oligarchic design of the site. The authors and moderators argue that it helps to keep the content "pure" and reduces the garbage content, but it's an outdated very unfriendly methodology that punishes naive users who don't deserve to be punished, and in many cases prevents useful knowledge from being captured just because it doesn't meet the overlords' idealistic view of what the site should be. You can't change a vote after you've voted. You can't edit your own comment after 5 minutes. You can't delete a question if it has answers. Rules like this hurt the quality of a crowdsourced website, they don't improve it. Stack Overflow is an incredibly valuable resource. But it's valuable despite its horribly restrictive and big brotherish design, not because of it.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
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To be fair, I think they have the same problem that Q&A does here - bit they've just gone too far! That's a fine line we draw - we don't want idiots or lazy people asking questions - but sometimes people can get a bit over-zealous! the motto should be, I think, "there is no such thing as a bad question" Rather than "your question is crap - downvoted" people should be answering "your question crap because xxxxx - how can we help you phrase it better ? Power corrupts, and all that, in action, unfortunately! it is interesting how there are a few people here (i.e. on CP) who are the very epitome of calm, assured experience with a twist of helpfulness (I'm thinking of you, Boyo, and you Jedi && !Stig) but there are also those who would be better placed at SO (I'm thinking of you, 'he who must not be named) I wonder why the latter stay here
PooperPig - Coming Soon
Another thing that drives me crazy is the bloodlust moderators have to close questions that are even remotely similar to another question on the site, even if that question is 2 years old and has no solution. Often questions will only bear a surface similarity to another question and will get closed as a duplicate (perhaps they share the same obstacle or bug) even when what is being asked is completely different. Sometimes the question is the same, but no one has provided a satisfactory answer on the other question. Give me a way to bump an old question and add my own information to it and this would be fine! But just because a question has been asked doesn't mean it should never be asked again!. SO needs a better way to merge duplicate questions instead of just closing the duplicate and preventing new answers. If someone asks the same question as another, their question should be merged with the original question and bumped as if it were a new question so that people using the site will see it and be able to answer it again. Keeping an unanswered question around historically with no new information is worthless.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
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Yes, I know. Yet ambiguous.
Actually no it's not ambiguous. Your interpretation would result in an invalid sentence fragment as it has no verb. ;)
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
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Actually no it's not ambiguous. Your interpretation would result in an invalid sentence fragment as it has no verb. ;)
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
This is 'Merica; land of the sentence fragment.
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Makes me wonder if we shouldn't redefine true intelligence in a computer to the ability to win an argument against women. :-D
GOTOs are a bit like wire coat hangers: they tend to breed in the darkness, such that where there once were few, eventually there are many, and the program's architecture collapses beneath them. (Fran Poretto)
No that would only require shouting an irrelevant point and powering down - OK maybe that's not a win, but a stalemate!
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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People have complained in meta many times that the website users are rude like here, but no use SO is continuing in the same way. Top users try to prove that whatever they are doing is right. http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/161539/rude-responses-from-the-community[^] There are many questions where they post disrespectful comments or downvote etc. It is not a new thing. Since, stackoverflow comes in top of google search results, it has a good set of QA, that doesn't mean whatever they do with new users or beginners is correct.
Pandu, you're still not showing a link to your question ...
Life is like a s**t sandwich; the more bread you have, the less s**t you eat.
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You've never had any issue? Well you clearly have not used it enough then. Pandu's mentioned problem is very real, but is compounded by the oligarchic design of the site. The authors and moderators argue that it helps to keep the content "pure" and reduces the garbage content, but it's an outdated very unfriendly methodology that punishes naive users who don't deserve to be punished, and in many cases prevents useful knowledge from being captured just because it doesn't meet the overlords' idealistic view of what the site should be. You can't change a vote after you've voted. You can't edit your own comment after 5 minutes. You can't delete a question if it has answers. Rules like this hurt the quality of a crowdsourced website, they don't improve it. Stack Overflow is an incredibly valuable resource. But it's valuable despite its horribly restrictive and big brotherish design, not because of it.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
I have used it quite a bit. I have 3500 rep, have answered 195 questions and asked 65 of my own. I have been downvoted before, a few times rightfully so, a few times without explanation. As with any community there are bad apples who will downvote someone for no real reason, and there are others who, due to the lack of tone on the internet perceive an incorrect tone in a post and downvote for that. I will admit that there is an English bias on the site and non-native speakers who do not make themselves clearly understood have a hard time, and are unfortunately downvoted because of it. I will also admit that I have seen some downvoting issues that were unwarranted, and they were dealt with through reversion. Most of the cases of downvote oblivion that I have seen were from people posting a simple explanation of a problem with no background, no code, no evidence that they have done anything to solve it themselves and then they demand answers. My first question, when I had no rep, got downvoted, I used the experience to better my question and I received a thoughtful and educational answer because of it, and an upvote which made a bit of an improvement (downvotes cost 2 rep, upvotes give 10 rep IIRC). The site has worked wonderfully for me. Now, my question is, any of you who say the site sucks, have you gone on Meta-Stackoverflow and voiced your concerns? What was the outcome? While I am not personal friends with the moderators of either site, they have listened to my concerns in the past and I am not a power-user or top contributor. The above is not meant to put you on the defensive. I am not attacking you. I genuinely want to know, because I frequent the site, and want to know specifics in an effort to make it better. Lastly, you can change a vote. I have done it myself not two minutes ago (as a test). Questions with answers can be deleted but the deletion has to be voted on. And I don't see how not being able to edit a comment detracts from the quality of the site. It keeps people accountable for what they say to a certain degree. 5 minutes is enough time to read 500 characters to ensure that it was punctuated and spelled correctly and is grammatically correct, and after that if you called someone a jackass it's there and can't be taken back.
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Another thing that drives me crazy is the bloodlust moderators have to close questions that are even remotely similar to another question on the site, even if that question is 2 years old and has no solution. Often questions will only bear a surface similarity to another question and will get closed as a duplicate (perhaps they share the same obstacle or bug) even when what is being asked is completely different. Sometimes the question is the same, but no one has provided a satisfactory answer on the other question. Give me a way to bump an old question and add my own information to it and this would be fine! But just because a question has been asked doesn't mean it should never be asked again!. SO needs a better way to merge duplicate questions instead of just closing the duplicate and preventing new answers. If someone asks the same question as another, their question should be merged with the original question and bumped as if it were a new question so that people using the site will see it and be able to answer it again. Keeping an unanswered question around historically with no new information is worthless.
Sad but true: 4/3 of Americans have difficulty with simple fractions. There are 10 types of people in this world: those who understand binary and those who don't. {o,o}.oO( Check out my blog! ) |)””’) http://pihole.org/ -”-”-
Yes - I agree. But it would take a lot of thinking about how to do it. I would like to see the ability to merge questions and answers, delete trivial answers and comments, to provide a go-to place for the knowledge about that particular problem - but that would take sensible moderation. Imagine if SAK was moderating, for example? Any questions about VB would be deleted on the grounds the OP shouldn't be using an outdated language...
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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In stackoverflow, if a new one asks a simple question, then the top users starts down voting, ranting. If someone don't have knowledge on particular topic or another then the regular users start insulting them. They call themselves as experts. They are playing with site good reputation. Overall this website has became very funny.
You're totally right! I've post some questions which i believe, there are many people asking the same question, but with no reason the downvoted it no even explaining why they did that... :mad: :thumbsdown: