I am worried about Microsoft
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Simple. Use another operating system or stick with what you have. There's nothing forcing you to upgrade.
Actually, there is > Try and find a laptop with Windows 7, try and buy a copy of Office 2007 I believe you can still but 5 years from now I doubt it. not to mention the security patches that will inevitably not be delivered to a discontinued version of windows My rant is not just from a End user perspective but that from a Developer perspective , there is nothing more i would like that to boot up ubuntu install netbeans and get in the zone with java but the most of my end users still uses Internet explorer (not because its the better browser, its because it came with their corporate PC along with Excel and word and all that other stuff that comes for free with open office but for some reason Microsoft still manage to sell to everyone
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
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I hate the subscription model. No, I take that back, hate is too weak of a word. Mark my words I'll stop using Office personally if it's forced upon me and I'll likely convince my employer to do the same. Adobe has already lost my future money with their BS Creative Cloud nonsense. I'll use CS6 until it stops working.
I completely agree , the subscription model is nothing but a huge pain and serves no benefit other than lining the pockets of execs with money for products end users already bought. Usually new versions of software was written tested and so jam packed with new features to give end users incentive to upgrade, If the choose now once they start using a product the company does not need to do anything new and still gets paid. Money for nothing is a drain on everyone.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
There are two parts to this: subscription pricing and IE updates. For subscription pricing on desktop software, I can only agree: it's generally annoying. However, if you subscribe for the Office365 access and it's concomitant app benefits that are continuously updated, then there's a value proposition. Also, businesses can choose subscriptions preferentially as it appears differently on their balance sheet. So for a general user, particularly one that is change-averse, it's annoying. Businesses less so. Regarding IE, you're way off beam. Changing the name won't fork the number of IE versions to test: it's just window dressing. And regarding the testing: IE is now more compatible than ever before with other browsers, reducing the overall load, and most items are addressable via feature detection rather than incredibly buggy user-agent checks and CSS hacks. I am part of a dev team for a large, enterprise package that supports IE8-11, FF and Chrome. We don't have any IE8-11 user agent checks. We don't have any CSS hacks. We feature detect a couple of things across these versions: placeholder support, CSS animation support, pointer events -- and progressively enhance. There does not need to be a Jenga tower. EDIT to add: I prefer Chrome/FF over IE, but I have no desire for the IE team to go back to their previous ethos where their release cadence was incredibly slow, and they were both buggy and incompatible. The current pace of change is benefiting the whole web.
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
I doubt JavaScript will be supported in the new browser at all
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Well, call me crazy, but I actually think there's a lot of benefits to the subscription of office. Not only do I get 1TB of onedrive storage (which IMO justifies the price on its own), but I also get to install the latest version of office on 5 PCs/Macs and 5 tablets. Bonus: 60 minutes of free calls with Skype (to real phones), not that I use it, but nice to have anyways. No install media - just click install on the office site. The Windows 8 thing is changing. Win9 will be desktop centric. Luckily for us :) Let's see how it looks in the end of september. What detection issues in IE? Browser or feature detection? Since IE10 (and somewhat even 9), I can finally write apps in Firefox or Chrome and they will look and behave exactly the same in IE11. MS finally got it right, and it's actually a lot faster when animating stuff with lot's of CSS3/SVG.
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
It'll be interesting to see if installable-versions of products like Office completely go away. There are probably tens of thousands of devices installed on US government networks that are not, and will never be connected to the Internet because they're classified systems. Most of them run Windows (XP and up) and most have Office installed. I imagine there are a lot of companies with "disconnected" networks that are similar. That would be a lot of $$$ Microsoft would be turning their back on if non-Internet-based solutions are no longer an option.
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Your points are well taken. Developers are stuck with the "change for the sake of change" model, but users are not. For example, replace M$ Office with FOSS OpenOffice or Libre Office, replace Exploder with FireFox, etc. Even the operating system can be replaced with FOSS such as Ubuntu. It is not at all clear to me why IT and Accounting are not leading the charge to replace M$ with FOSS if only to escape the never ending cosmetic upgrades and the resulting training costs and loss in productivity because of the user "learning curve," which in many cases exceeds the licensing/rental costs. The collateral costs of peripherals that will not work with the new O/S version are also significant. Unka_George
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It'll be interesting to see if installable-versions of products like Office completely go away. There are probably tens of thousands of devices installed on US government networks that are not, and will never be connected to the Internet because they're classified systems. Most of them run Windows (XP and up) and most have Office installed. I imagine there are a lot of companies with "disconnected" networks that are similar. That would be a lot of $$$ Microsoft would be turning their back on if non-Internet-based solutions are no longer an option.
OpenOffice or Libre. Government should have made the switch years ago. Many state and local governments already have. State of Kansas where I live for example. Unka_George
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Recent changes in Microsoft software is leaving me worried From: Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months. Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows 8.1 bringing back things cut from windows for no apparent reason. Windows 8 prioritizing a tablet based layout making no consideration the amount of laptops and desktops is huge in comparison to tablet sales Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer and it looks like they are at it again http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/18/technology/internet-explorer-name-microsoft/[^] And all I can think of is "brilliant another default operating system bound browser which will be a compulsory baby sitting job filled with javascript and CSS layout issues that will be completely different from the fixes done in every major release of IE,and if they really want to make my day cause the same detection issues introduced with IE10 and IE11 making me spend my precious time jumping between different PC's and VMS testing different versions of IE and tweaking my CSS and Browser Files like a jenga tower instead of focusing on functionality and business logic" YAY! I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
Chona1171 wrote:
Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months.
Heh ... you say you use O2007. I still use O2003! I never did care for the ribbon. O2003 works perfectly under Win 8.1 I might add! I feel your pain although I wouldn't say I'm "worried" about MS. I simply am not following them nearly as closely as I was. I develop desktop / backend stuff and a little ASP.Net stuff for the web (which version 3.5 does very nicely thank you). Anything I develop for my clients is with VS2008/SQL Server 2008 R2/Active Reports 6 which all work fine . Not everybody is on the "upgrade train".
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Your points are well taken. Developers are stuck with the "change for the sake of change" model, but users are not. For example, replace M$ Office with FOSS OpenOffice or Libre Office, replace Exploder with FireFox, etc. Even the operating system can be replaced with FOSS such as Ubuntu. It is not at all clear to me why IT and Accounting are not leading the charge to replace M$ with FOSS if only to escape the never ending cosmetic upgrades and the resulting training costs and loss in productivity because of the user "learning curve," which in many cases exceeds the licensing/rental costs. The collateral costs of peripherals that will not work with the new O/S version are also significant. Unka_George
Member 10591816 wrote:
Developers are stuck with the "change for the sake of change" model, but users are not. For example, replace M$ Office with FOSS OpenOffice or Libre Office, replace Exploder with FireFox, etc. Even the operating system can be replaced with FOSS such as Ubuntu.
It all depends on where you are as a developer. If you're in a "shop" that requires chasing the "bleeding edge" that may, indeed, be the case. If you're operating on your own, though, you might not have to be. The tools I'm using are considered "old" as far as the development community is concerned but my clients want stuff that will run on desktop on their LAN or as a web application. So far I haven't run into anything I need to build for them that requires anything more recent than what was available with VS2008 which I find to be very stable. I haven't had a client notice yet that their executable was built by a six-year-old version of VS! This whole "change for the sake of change" model, as you call it, is largely marketing. All right, sometimes you have to upgrade things if you're trying to address the latest and greatest platforms but even in the case of Microsoft it's obvious that they're seeing that the desktop ain't going anywhere. Everything I'm writing with VS2008 still runs fine in the latest Win desktop. Really breaks my heart that I don't have to keep buying later versions of something I still ain't overusing yet!
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Chona1171 wrote:
Office going to a subscription model
I still have Office 2010 around (or earlier) and I certainly will not continue past Office 2012 if I have to use a subscription model. OpenOffice is decent enough for my needs.
Chona1171 wrote:
Windows 8 changing everything users were familiar with to windows
I will never use Windows 8 on any of my machines. If I am forced to for work reasons, it'll be on a dedicated box and f*** metro.
Chona1171 wrote:
Now in the past I made no secret of my absolute infuriation with Internet explorer
I've got Chrome, Firefox, and Opera installed. What's Internet Explorer???
Chona1171 wrote:
I wish there is something we as developers can do to put a permanent stop to these unwanted and unnecessary security risks and changes Microsoft keeps shoving down our throat.
You can. It's called Linux. And why not? Much as I actually think Linux desktops are POS's, they ARE still viable "work" platforms and the sooner "we as developers" stop developing for Microsoft, the sooner they will hear the silence. Why, in fact, companies actually pay license fees for Windows and SQL Server (or Oracle) is actually beyond me at this point -- in other words, I'm sure there are good cases, but the vast majority of users have simply been sucked into the Microsoft Way. Not to mention developers, inhaling with glee whatever crap Wxx "technology" Microsoft throws at them next. Maddening. I await your rebuttals! :-D Marc
Automating Semantic Mapping of a Document With Natural Language Processing
You'll get no quarrel from me. I've been exclusively Linux at home for 4 years; POS is not really the case, Microsoft generally imitates features Linux introduces, except for Brainfart 8. No, wait, Ubuntu Unity is supposed to be a unified device interface too, so that's another concept they imitated. I keep a 7 machine in the kitchen for compatibility with work, but I generally only wheel it out once a month to allow all the updates to sh!t through the eye of a needle at once. It only takes half an hour. I can iron 3 shirts while I'm waiting, or record a rant for Vimeo. Tell the truth I only use it for torrents; I like to f"ck with potential beadles' heads. My lovely Linux computers allow me to do every normal job for free. Libre Office is fine for all 'Office' type work I do, although it isn't absolutely in fidelity with MS Office; presumably the new 'features' are an arms race to keep the open source alternatives guessing. You can't really blame them for trying. And of course, the Linux familiarity enabled me to increase my salary by 40% as my current employers use hybrids and virtualisation.
The future is bright. The future is Orange.
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You'll get no quarrel from me. I've been exclusively Linux at home for 4 years; POS is not really the case, Microsoft generally imitates features Linux introduces, except for Brainfart 8. No, wait, Ubuntu Unity is supposed to be a unified device interface too, so that's another concept they imitated. I keep a 7 machine in the kitchen for compatibility with work, but I generally only wheel it out once a month to allow all the updates to sh!t through the eye of a needle at once. It only takes half an hour. I can iron 3 shirts while I'm waiting, or record a rant for Vimeo. Tell the truth I only use it for torrents; I like to f"ck with potential beadles' heads. My lovely Linux computers allow me to do every normal job for free. Libre Office is fine for all 'Office' type work I do, although it isn't absolutely in fidelity with MS Office; presumably the new 'features' are an arms race to keep the open source alternatives guessing. You can't really blame them for trying. And of course, the Linux familiarity enabled me to increase my salary by 40% as my current employers use hybrids and virtualisation.
The future is bright. The future is Orange.
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
presumably the new 'features' are an arms race to keep the open source alternatives guessing.
Let's just hope they never implement ribbons. They haven't, have they?
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
And of course, the Linux familiarity enabled me to increase my salary by 40% as my current employers use hybrids and virtualisation.
Very nice! Marc
Automating Semantic Mapping of a Document With Natural Language Processing
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Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
presumably the new 'features' are an arms race to keep the open source alternatives guessing.
Let's just hope they never implement ribbons. They haven't, have they?
Simon O'Riordan from UK wrote:
And of course, the Linux familiarity enabled me to increase my salary by 40% as my current employers use hybrids and virtualisation.
Very nice! Marc
Automating Semantic Mapping of a Document With Natural Language Processing
No ribbons. The features I was thinking of are file-types and Excel macros. Apparently the macros in Libre Office are slightly different. LibreOffice is much, much better than Open Office; Open got taken over by one of the biggies(Adobe? Oracle?) who promptly alienated all their softies. Those guys bailed and started Libre Office, so basically all the owners got was a pile of unmaintained code.
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Amen Man, Amen
Oxford and Cambridge say aye!
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Well, call me crazy, but I actually think there's a lot of benefits to the subscription of office. Not only do I get 1TB of onedrive storage (which IMO justifies the price on its own), but I also get to install the latest version of office on 5 PCs/Macs and 5 tablets. Bonus: 60 minutes of free calls with Skype (to real phones), not that I use it, but nice to have anyways. No install media - just click install on the office site. The Windows 8 thing is changing. Win9 will be desktop centric. Luckily for us :) Let's see how it looks in the end of september. What detection issues in IE? Browser or feature detection? Since IE10 (and somewhat even 9), I can finally write apps in Firefox or Chrome and they will look and behave exactly the same in IE11. MS finally got it right, and it's actually a lot faster when animating stuff with lot's of CSS3/SVG.
Erling Limm wrote:
Not only do I get 1TB of onedrive storage (which IMO justifies the price on its own), but I also get to install the latest version of office on 5 PCs/Macs and 5 tablets. Bonus: 60 minutes of free calls with Skype (to real phones),
I second you, maybe I am crazy too :laugh: . I should add that subscription mode doesn't even scratch my wallet every month and the benefits are worth it.
To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems - Homer Simpson ---- Our heads are round so our thoughts can change direction - Francis Picabia
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Well, call me crazy, but I actually think there's a lot of benefits to the subscription of office. Not only do I get 1TB of onedrive storage (which IMO justifies the price on its own), but I also get to install the latest version of office on 5 PCs/Macs and 5 tablets. Bonus: 60 minutes of free calls with Skype (to real phones), not that I use it, but nice to have anyways. No install media - just click install on the office site. The Windows 8 thing is changing. Win9 will be desktop centric. Luckily for us :) Let's see how it looks in the end of september. What detection issues in IE? Browser or feature detection? Since IE10 (and somewhat even 9), I can finally write apps in Firefox or Chrome and they will look and behave exactly the same in IE11. MS finally got it right, and it's actually a lot faster when animating stuff with lot's of CSS3/SVG.
Back in the day new coke was introduced, most people liked it, so they changed it Those who didn't kicked up a fuss because they made a very big miscalculation , those who liked new coke also liked old coke :) Though not completely the same but here's the thing to introduce this model of business microsoft is throwing in all these nice goodies, Skype calls one drive ect, 10 years from now everyone is on a subscription model and have no copies of the old Office left , and they can do with that price as they please , as end user you might not feel it but enterprise licenses will be ridiculous, maybe its just paranoia but it does have the feeling of paying for something you already paid for.. As for the browser capabilities detection , quickly write a asp.net app in .net 2 3 or 4 (not 4.5) create a basic login, and run it on IE 10 or try storing a session variable, when you have 50+ sites online its not a lot of fun being on the other end of that conversation. For flat sites, basic content sites there may be some improvements.
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
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I agree with you that if more of us developed for Linux, eventually it would make a dent...problem is big corporate clients insist on being communicated with via Excel & Word docs...and a lot of them do all their scheduling and communicating with Outlook and presenting with PowerPoint...you'll be left out in the cold if you don't *obey*. Having said that, I'm staying on Office 2010 for the foreseeable future. If someone built .NET scripting into Open Office / Libre Office, that would seriously tempt me :) The Linux platform would help its cause immensely if it would settle on the *one* desktop combining all the best features of all of them. I only use Linux in console mode myself, usually to run LAMP stacks. Arch Linux is my current favorite, I've used CentOS and OpenSuSE as well (gave up on SuSE when they abandoned Mono).
It's not whether more of us develop for Linux. It's if more people adopt and use Linux which people aren't going to do. It's a bit of a learning curve for many and I somehow think the day of Linux being number one is long gone. Companies won't move to Linux because they won't make money and if Microsoft gives away the OS for free, why would anyone try Linux in a mainstream level?
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Actually, there is > Try and find a laptop with Windows 7, try and buy a copy of Office 2007 I believe you can still but 5 years from now I doubt it. not to mention the security patches that will inevitably not be delivered to a discontinued version of windows My rant is not just from a End user perspective but that from a Developer perspective , there is nothing more i would like that to boot up ubuntu install netbeans and get in the zone with java but the most of my end users still uses Internet explorer (not because its the better browser, its because it came with their corporate PC along with Excel and word and all that other stuff that comes for free with open office but for some reason Microsoft still manage to sell to everyone
Chona1171 Web Developer (C#), Silverlight
If you pay $10, you'll get 1TB of OneDrive which is the only reason why I signed on. 1TB per person and 5 licenses for $10/mo..... everyone's happy if 5 members of the family pay $2. Online backup storage and Office. Still beats paying $200+ for an Office suite when I can have this and get free upgrades.
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It's not whether more of us develop for Linux. It's if more people adopt and use Linux which people aren't going to do. It's a bit of a learning curve for many and I somehow think the day of Linux being number one is long gone. Companies won't move to Linux because they won't make money and if Microsoft gives away the OS for free, why would anyone try Linux in a mainstream level?
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Chona1171 wrote:
Office going to a subscription model , even though nothing really new has been added and Office 2007 still serves it purpose perfectly Bought it for $200 where I now have to spend that same amount every 15 months
Agree. I remember when Windows 95 released and I was developing software and Gates was talking about this and I thought it was a terrible idea which only cost users more and really offered no great benefit.
newton.saber wrote:
Office 20073 still serves it purpose perfectly