Use of Team foundation server for Task Backlog.
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up. It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks. Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
I understand the complexity involved in managing tasks, but let's agree that "no" software does it better, everyone have some advantage and disadvantages over one another. But when you are in BIG team that's spread over 3 different CONTINENTS, you need something to manage your task and then the process eats up your time rather that the work itself. But you know that. You have one thing to manage you task and other thing to keep track on developers daily tasks and for his billing, and them something else for code review tracking and something for you source control. this is even more complex than the most complex net to entangled threads. That' where TFS Kicks in, it has everything in it. you don't even have to leave the VS. code review, tasks, work items, User stories hell it even has the track of which line was added for which code review and the reviewer with his comment, what method what changed by how many people and for what all reasons. This makes it easy, all the info in available at one place. That's what I like about TFS, but unfortunately I do not know what real benefits are we getting from ClearCase over TFS.
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I suppose ther might be a lot drawbacks in TFS. I think some of you points contradicts with the reality. (Please correct me if I am wrong about any).
Dominic Burford wrote:
TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
TFS has work offline feature which will be activated when you loos the connectivity and it asks you if you want to continue working in offline mode and when you reconnect it shows you all the file you have changed in offline mode - This is same in ClearQuest - so that'll not be a problem.
Dominic Burford wrote:
The merging features of TFS are not as intuitive either.
If you have used VS 10 or above, In those versions, TFS does actually suports a really nice (the Best I've ever seen) interface to merge file in, the compare tool of VS is the best, it also support editing the files right in the mearge tool, also the navigation between changes in awesome- atleast heavenly better that ClearQuest. Now I have not used SVN that much, so may be I dont know exactly how it might be bettern in SVN. but please let me know if TFS is bettern than ClearQuest in this sense.
Yes there is an option for working offline, but the default is to be connected all the time. Contrast this with tools that don't require permanent connectivity such as Git and Subversion where you only connect when you actually need to. Tools such as Git and Subversion (in my opinion) are better at things such as merging due to the fact they are far more mature products. Subversion makes merging dead easy, whereas (in my opinion) it's all a bit clunky in TFS and not very intuitive. The only upside (in my opinion) in using TFS is the integration with VS, but given that we're looking into ditching TFS, it's not that big a deal for us. If TFS does what you want, then go with it. Once you've driven a Rolls Royce though, why would you be satisfied driving a Ford :)
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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We use TFS where I work, but I have to admit that I don't find it a particularly great tool. Having previously used Subversion, TFS (in terms of its source control features) is a bit weak. TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network (as soon as you type into a source file it gets automatically checked out. If your network is down, you're stuck). Other tools such as Git and Subversion work in a disconnected manner. You are only ever connected to the repository when you actually check code in. The merging features of TFS are not as intuitive either. In Subversion for example conflicted files are highlighted in red to draw your attention to them. In TFS this doesn't happen. It's much easier to make a mistake in TFS than in various other tools. For builds there are tools such as CruiseControl.NET, TeamCity and Jenkins that do a better job than TFS too. Unless you are a large, enterprise Microsoft house, then I'd explore other options. We're looking at ditching TFS and using Git / Github and TeamCity.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
Dominic Burford wrote:
TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
Not true. You can work disconnected. When you go back online, TFS is smart enough to be able to reconcile your changes. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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TFS is better than it used to be and it is more than source control, but that may be where the problem lies. My source control preferences in order are Git, SVN then TFS - unfortunately TFS seems to be the most commonly used in the companies I tend to be involved with. Git and SVN don't have tools built in for managing Agile projects but I wouldn't say that the ones in TFS are great. Many people install Telerik's TFS Work Item Manager to fill in some of the gaps. Personally I'd recommend finding a 3rd party solution (such as JetBrains YouTrack or JIRA) for managing projects - even better if you can get one that can be hooked into check-ins from TFS, Git or SVN. Just about every developer I've worked with dislikes using TFS - me included X|
How do you know so much about swallows? Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.
BugTracker.NET has excellent integration with Subversion and Mercurial, and is written in ASP.NET, and is completely customisable. I used it in a previous company I worked for and found it to be a great tool :)
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up. It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks. Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
t feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks.
That's probably because you selected the Scrum or Agile project template. You may want to choose CMMI instead for more traditional (a la Excel) tracking. See this[^] link. Don't give up on TFS - it's pretty powerful, imho! /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Dominic Burford wrote:
TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
Not true. You can work disconnected. When you go back online, TFS is smart enough to be able to reconcile your changes. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
See my later reply. Yes it does, but the default operation is to work in connected mode. Contrast this with other tools such as Git and Subversion that work in a completely disconnected mode.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Chris Maunder wrote:
Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
I understand the complexity involved in managing tasks, but let's agree that "no" software does it better, everyone have some advantage and disadvantages over one another. But when you are in BIG team that's spread over 3 different CONTINENTS, you need something to manage your task and then the process eats up your time rather that the work itself. But you know that. You have one thing to manage you task and other thing to keep track on developers daily tasks and for his billing, and them something else for code review tracking and something for you source control. this is even more complex than the most complex net to entangled threads. That' where TFS Kicks in, it has everything in it. you don't even have to leave the VS. code review, tasks, work items, User stories hell it even has the track of which line was added for which code review and the reviewer with his comment, what method what changed by how many people and for what all reasons. This makes it easy, all the info in available at one place. That's what I like about TFS, but unfortunately I do not know what real benefits are we getting from ClearCase over TFS.
Surely if your team is spread geographically like this you should be looking into a distributed version control system. This is one of the reasons we're looking into ditching TFS and going with Git / Github.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Surely if your team is spread geographically like this you should be looking into a distributed version control system. This is one of the reasons we're looking into ditching TFS and going with Git / Github.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
Dominic Burford wrote:
going with Git / Github.
Wise decision.
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BugTracker.NET has excellent integration with Subversion and Mercurial, and is written in ASP.NET, and is completely customisable. I used it in a previous company I worked for and found it to be a great tool :)
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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Dominic Burford wrote:
TFS needs to be connected constantly to your network
Not true. You can work disconnected. When you go back online, TFS is smart enough to be able to reconcile your changes. /ravi
My new year resolution: 2048 x 1536 Home | Articles | My .NET bits | Freeware ravib(at)ravib(dot)com
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Surely if your team is spread geographically like this you should be looking into a distributed version control system. This is one of the reasons we're looking into ditching TFS and going with Git / Github.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up. It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks. Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers Chris Maunder
Chris Maunder wrote:
and terrible UI
What UI would that be? I use the Web UI for Tasks. It has its problems of course, but it does what it needs to.
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Ok, so TFS is not so good with huge team and different servers? I don't know I am asking, because that's what I need to do, choose a proper source control system. Have you ever used ClearQuest?
If you want a DVCS tool then you should in be considering TFS. Git is by far your best option.
"There are two ways of constructing a software design: One way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies, and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. The first method is far more difficult." - C.A.R. Hoare Home | LinkedIn | Google+ | Twitter
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We investigated using it for our task tracking and after 15 mins of trying to make heads or tails of it I gave up. It feels like the process of doing sprints and cards and backlogs and burndowns and everything else in the various templates that are offered have completely taken priority over actually - y'know - managing your tasks. Anything that is harder to use than an Excel spreadsheet get's thrown in the bin for us. TFS / VSO has great potential, but not until they focus on the data (ie tasks) instead of the process (ie their overly complicated workflow and terrible UI)
cheers Chris Maunder
Have you had a look at Trello? It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard. Perfect for kanban or scrum boards, also works with your phone.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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Have you had a look at Trello? It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard. Perfect for kanban or scrum boards, also works with your phone.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
Jörgen Andersson wrote:
It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard
Yes and it made me want to scream. Scrum boards are great when you need to focus on a small number of items for a given sprint. I need to manage a LOT of items across many different business units, and some of them are long (up to 2 years long) projects. I need to keep a list, somewhere, of everything we're involved in with the ability to expand/shrink my temporal focus. What are the 3 projects we'll do this quarter? What top 3 things each department has on their plate this week? Where's out TODO list and what's item #582?
cheers Chris Maunder
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Jörgen Andersson wrote:
It's the virtual version of sticky notes on a whiteboard
Yes and it made me want to scream. Scrum boards are great when you need to focus on a small number of items for a given sprint. I need to manage a LOT of items across many different business units, and some of them are long (up to 2 years long) projects. I need to keep a list, somewhere, of everything we're involved in with the ability to expand/shrink my temporal focus. What are the 3 projects we'll do this quarter? What top 3 things each department has on their plate this week? Where's out TODO list and what's item #582?
cheers Chris Maunder
With those demands I wonder if you'll ever find something that will satisfy you. I'm having an idea though that I might throw at you, problem is that I'll never find time to do it I'm afraid.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
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With those demands I wonder if you'll ever find something that will satisfy you. I'm having an idea though that I might throw at you, problem is that I'll never find time to do it I'm afraid.
Wrong is evil and must be defeated. - Jeff Ello
That's why we wrote Tasks ;) (I'm still thinking of resurrecting it!)
cheers Chris Maunder
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Hello all, I am doing a small research in my company to switch from ClearCase(IBM's Source Control System) and ClearQuest(IBM's task/project/backlog management system) to Team Foundation server. I till now found out that TFS is much more fast in terms of checking out, checking in functionality and have great in-visual-studio interface, also that it's compare and code review functionality is great. As we use VS-13 and our project is completedly in C#. I want to know what you guys suggest about TFS' Task management. is it reach in features and also have you found out it's drawback? Thanks in advance.
The best feature of TFS is the ability to select a task from the planning side to associate with a check in And then ... you can stop working on one task, save everything (windows, breakpoints etc.) work on anther task, and then save that one, swap between them etc. Of course, we don't use these features because our source is on one TFS server and our planning stuff on another. :omg: :wtf: See text[^] Video[^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
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The group I'm in has been using TFS for the last few years and I like it. Previously we used Subversion (which is not suitable for use with code projects) and had no way of tracking work. I do not integrate TFS with my Visual Studio projects, because that's not how I work. I use the Web interface, the command-line, the shell extension, and some utilities I wrote against the API.
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The best feature of TFS is the ability to select a task from the planning side to associate with a check in And then ... you can stop working on one task, save everything (windows, breakpoints etc.) work on anther task, and then save that one, swap between them etc. Of course, we don't use these features because our source is on one TFS server and our planning stuff on another. :omg: :wtf: See text[^] Video[^]
PooperPig - Coming Soon
Me too, and miss TFS (As I do not get to use it in my company-or rather in my project.) I miss the sheving the pending changes feature and code review work item feature. I belive if you make the tool easy to follow the processes. people we do it, and they will do it gladly.